View Full Version : alimony; yes or no
kg4kww
03-28-2007, 04:15 PM
CLEARWATER, Fla. — Lawrence Roach agreed to pay alimony to the woman he divorced, not the man she became after a sex change, his lawyers argued in an effort to end the payments.
But the ex-wife's attorneys argued Tuesday that the operation doesn't alter the agreement.
Less than a week after commissioners in nearby Largo drew national attention by firing the city manager after he announced he was a transsexual, lawyers for Roach and his ex-wife grappled in another transsexual rights case that delves into relatively uncharted legal territory.
Full Story (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261860,00.html)
If he agreed to the alimony, he should pay. His argument is that you cannot marry a man if you are a man may be true, but the latter part about not paying alimony to a man is not a logical derivation from the original statement. He was ordered in court to pay to this person a legal settlement. Just because she went and had an addadichtomy does not change the court ruling.
w3scm
03-28-2007, 05:05 PM
When you think of it, why should this disolve the alimony award?
Still, from his point of view, you can see his reluctance. Hopefully, he can view the whole thing as the price to pay to get out of the consequences of staying with him/her, which probably wasn't a lot of fun.
ac4ut
03-28-2007, 05:29 PM
Alimony? What is alimony?
n0jaa
03-28-2007, 06:14 PM
I think the alimony should be ended. She is now a he, who is now someone else, hence the original spouse is no longer making payments to the same person.
w5klb
03-28-2007, 06:25 PM
Quote[/b] (ac4ut @ Mar. 28 2007,10:29)]Alimony? What is alimony?
It should be renamed to "Allyourmoney." And if you have any dreams, they want those too.
ac4ut
03-28-2007, 06:35 PM
The key is to always marry a woman with more than you.
The sad part is that this guy drove this woman into another realm of life style.
He must feel pretty bad.
kb2vxa
03-28-2007, 07:22 PM
The key is to always marry a woman with more than you.
Yeah, the key to the poor house. What makes you think a woman's financial status changes a woman's mentality? She can afford better lawyers and REALLY rake you over the coals. Paying for a family you no longer have is every man's dream.
N5NPO
03-28-2007, 08:17 PM
Alimony was establish back when women for the most part didn't work and would be destitue houswives if their husband left them. It was kind of a disincentive to men to keep them from straying....(my opinion based on some things I have heard)
Now with the advent of no-fault divorse, women will run off with whoever or nobody and just to really stick it to a guy will get alimony AND child support.
I think that if the guy leaves the marrige without cause, fine, make him pay until she re-marrys. But if the woman messes around then no alimony period.
kg4kww
03-29-2007, 04:08 AM
this is a CROC, I hope this guy appeals.
CLEARWATER, Florida (AP) -- A woman's sex change operation does not free her ex-husband from his alimony obligation, a judge said Wednesday.
Attorneys for Lawrence Roach, 48, had argued his 55-year-old ex-wife's decision to switch genders and change her name from Julia to Julio Roberto Silverwolf voided their 2004 divorce agreement.
"It's illegal for a man to marry a man and it should likewise be illegal for a man to pay alimony to a man," said John McGuire, one of Roach's attorneys.
Circuit Judge Jack R. St. Arnold, however, ruled that in the eyes of the law, nothing changed significantly enough to free Roach from his $1,250-a-month obligation.
The judge said since Florida courts have ruled sex-change surgery cannot legally change a person's birth gender, Roach technically is not paying alimony to a man.
Full Story (http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/28/sex.change.alimony.ap/index.html)
KB1KIX
03-29-2007, 04:32 AM
No.
In well over 90 percent of the cases I've seen, alimony is nothing but ex-spousal welfare.
Get a job like the rest of us.
OK..... obligatory disclaimer - I have 1 wage garnishment!!
Jonathan
That woman should just suck it in and take it like a man...now that she can, anyway. :P
When Wifoid 1.0 and I divorced--amicably, I might add--she was earning a little more than five times what I was making. She joked that she should pay me alimony, but I declined. Why should she be responsible for my maintaining a lifestyle? I was able-bodied and had my wits about me--if I wanted a lifestyle then I'd have to work to get it. End story. (The secret to becoming rich: earn more or require less.)
n6hcm
03-29-2007, 05:37 AM
Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Mar. 28 2007,21:08)]The judge said since Florida courts have ruled sex-change surgery cannot legally change a person's birth gender, Roach technically is not paying alimony to a man.
Full Story (http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/28/sex.change.alimony.ap/index.html)
so you're saying that you want florida to legally recognize a transgendered person's new gender?
(folks who can afford gender-changing treatment and surgery don't need alimony, imho.)
KI4PEQ
03-29-2007, 09:55 AM
Quote[/b] (n9xr @ Mar. 28 2007,10:31)]Just because she went and had an addadichtomy does not change the court ruling.
"Excuse me, can I use your Dictaphone?"
"No you may not! Use your finger like everyone else!" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
W1GUH
03-30-2007, 07:13 AM
Oy!
The news topics these days. I didn't even know there was surgery to go from female to male. The other way around seems possible...but...um...well...how do they provide the necessary "equipment?" On second thought, I probably don't want to know the answer. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Then, there's alimony. I look on it as one of those "It's there...and, when ya gotta pay it, it by and large is easier to just do it than try to fight it. Fighting it can, and probably usually does, rack up the lawyer's fees in addition to what you already have to pay. I call it suckimony, cause it really does.
And, what the heck it seems somehow related...
15% Human sheep (http://science.netscape.com/story/2007/03/25/now-scientists-create-a-sheep-thats-15-percent-human)
KE4FES
03-30-2007, 08:24 AM
Quote[/b] (ac4ut @ Mar. 28 2007,10:29)]Alimony? What is alimony?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ALIMONY: THE SCREWING YOU PAY FOR THE
SCREWING YOU GOT.?
no offence intended.
CHARLIE
It is time to end alimony altogether. It is simply theft from you by someone who hates you.
N5NPO
03-30-2007, 10:39 AM
It is settled then.... Call your represenative. Sponsor a bill called end the end of marrige screwing bill... Maybe someone can come up with a more creative catchy name for the bill.... One that sounds good so everyone will jump on board and support it.
ae4tr
03-30-2007, 11:47 AM
Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 30 2007,03:13)]Oy!
The news topics these days. #I didn't even know there was surgery to go from female to male. #The other way around seems possible...but...um...well...how do they provide the necessary "equipment?" #On second thought, I probably don't want to know the answer. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Then, there's alimony. #I look on it as one of those "It's there...and, when ya gotta pay it, it by and large is easier to just do it than try to fight it. #Fighting it can, and probably usually does, rack up the lawyer's fees in addition to what you already have to pay. #I call it suckimony, cause it really does.
And, what the heck it seems somehow related...
15% Human sheep (http://science.netscape.com/story/2007/03/25/now-scientists-create-a-sheep-thats-15-percent-human)
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # #The "necessary equiptment" can be purchased from the
door to door meat salesman!! #(described in another thread)
Hahahaha, #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
N3ATS
03-30-2007, 07:56 PM
Funny how she wants to leave you, but she doesn't want to leave your money.
Alimony is wrong.
n2ize
03-30-2007, 08:13 PM
I think that in genral alimony is a good thing. Hey, if you don't like it then tough, don't get married. Once you get married alimony is just one more thing you may end up paying one day. Pay up.
In this case it doesn;t make a bot of difference if she changed into a man, martian or a camel, it's the same person you were married to so...tough luck...pay up.
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,12:13)]In this case it doesn;t make a bot of difference if she changed into a man, martian or a camel, it's the same person you were married to so...tough luck...pay up.
No, it is not the same person. That person that loved you is long gone. Only a few atoms remain.
You are an existentialist only when it is convenient.
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,15:13)]I think that in genral alimony is a good thing. Hey, if you don't like it then tough, don't get married. Once you get married alimony is just one more thing you may end up paying one day. Pay up.
In this case it doesn;t make a bot of difference if she changed into a man, martian or a camel, it's the same person you were married to so...tough luck...pay up.
Are you married?
Were you ever married?
A married or divorced man would never say such a stupid thing like you did.
KD6NIG
03-30-2007, 11:11 PM
Far as I know, the only things that can stop alimony is:
1) The recipient agreeing to stop it.
2) The death of the recipient.
3) The remarriage of the recipient.
4) The alimony ending (if only for a agreed to timeframe)
5) A major change in income on either side (ie, the recipient wins the lottery, the provider becomes unemployed) though this would require modification and likely approval of both parties.
I see none of these instances.
She became a he. She didn't die. As long as the name change was legally done via the court system, the new name would get the same rights as the old.
Just like any obligations she had would now be under her new legal name.
I'm guessing her social security number didn't change, either. So that means the SSA thinks its the same person also.
She would have lost all of her benefits or accrued social security payments if this was so.
If the government will do this, I'm guessing the payee is simply stuck http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
n2ize
03-30-2007, 11:25 PM
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Mar. 30 2007,14:17)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,15:13)]I think that in genral alimony is a good thing. Hey, if you don't like it then tough, don't get married. Once you get married alimony is just one more thing you may end up paying one day. Pay up.
In this case it doesn;t make a bot of difference if she changed into a man, martian or a camel, it's the same person you were married to so...tough luck...pay up.
Are you married?
Were you ever married?
A married or divorced man would never say such a stupid thing like you did.
No, I am not married. I never found the right person. Well, actually I think I did find the right person but unfortunately I cannot marry her. For now I enjoy the single life and I have girl friends instead of a wife.
That said, a lot of divorced guys are against child support too. Of course a married or divorced man is going to be against alimony. He doesn't want to pay up. Pretty much the way a speeder is going to be against speed limit enforcement. He wants to speed. Bottom line, alimony is the law. Pay up.
In this particular case the guy was married to her. I don;t care what she did later on. The fact is that she is the same person that he was married to. Don't beleive me, check the DNA. Like it or not the guy was married to her. Now he's got to pay up.
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,15:25)]In this particular case the guy was married to her. I don;t care what she did later on. The fact is that she is the same person that he was married to. Don't beleive me, check the DNA. Like it or not the guy was married to her. Now he's got to pay up.
No one enters into a marriage contract to "pay up" if the other party's love turns to hate. At least you are consistently in favor of human slavery.
N5NPO
03-31-2007, 12:42 AM
Quote[/b] (al2i @ Mar. 30 2007,16:51)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,15:25)]In this particular case the guy was married to her. I don;t care what she did later on. The fact is that she is the same person that he was married to. #Don't beleive me, check the DNA. #Like it or not the guy was married to her. Now he's got to pay up.
No one enters into a marriage contract to "pay up" if the other party's love turns to hate. # At least you are consistently in favor of human slavery.
Slavery...... Hmmmm, you have something there... I never thought of it like that, but that is basically what it is. Gender based government enforced slavery.
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,18:25)]No, I am not married. I never found the right person. Well, actually I think I did find the right person but unfortunately I cannot marry her. For now I enjoy the single life and I have girl friends instead of a wife.
Then you are in no position to comment on whether or not married men (because let's not kid ourselves here, which woman is paying alimony? In America??? You've got to be kidding) should be paying alimony.
I've been married once before, and this current marriage is my second.
The first was filled with her seeking to take the most money from me. She was a greedy and lazy b*** who was considerate of no one else but herself.
Alimony and child support are very much abused today.
It takes a married man to understand that, and even then, it takes a married man who's been divorced to understand that.
And until you fill those shoes, you have no right telling ME that I should "pay up" to some b**ch who cheated on me, lied, divorced me then wanted MY hard earned money.
Quote[/b] ]In this particular case the guy was married to her. I don;t care what she did later on. The fact is that she is the same person that he was married to. Don't beleive me, check the DNA. Like it or not the guy was married to her. Now he's got to pay up.
I agree that in this case the guy should pay, because he's a fool for getting himself stuck with paying alimony to her. A deal is a deal.
But in the broader sense, men shouldn't have to "pay up" because their ex wife decided she wanted to go her own separate way and doesn't want to work and earn her own keep. That in itself is silly.
Marriage is a hell of a thing. You won't know anything about it until you're in it.
N5NPO
03-31-2007, 03:37 AM
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Mar. 30 2007,20:35)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,18:25)]No, I am not married. I never found the right person. Well, actually I think I did find the right person but unfortunately I cannot marry her. For now I enjoy the single life and I have girl friends instead of a wife.
Then you are in no position to comment on whether or not married men (because let's not kid ourselves here, which woman is paying alimony? In America??? You've got to be kidding) should be paying alimony.
I've been married once before, and this current marriage is my second.
The first was filled with her seeking to take the most money from me. #She was a greedy and lazy b*** who was considerate of no one else but herself. #
Alimony and child support are very much abused today.
It takes a married man to understand that, and even then, it takes a married man who's been divorced to understand that.
And until you fill those shoes, you have no right telling ME that I should "pay up" to some b**ch who cheated on me, lied, divorced me then wanted MY hard earned money.
Wow, sounds like you were married to my X wife or her twin!!! YIKES!!!
I feel for you.
N5NPO
03-31-2007, 03:41 AM
Does anyine really get married thinking that they will be divorced in a couple of years, but giving money to the person who they were married to as if they were still married? What gives someone the right??? Child support is nesesary, but way too often excessive and abused. I seldom see what I think is equal justice under the law when it comes to "family court".
This may be moved to the Joke forum, but here goes:
What do a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, and an ex-wife have in common? Sooner or later, one of them will get the house. :P
n2ize
03-31-2007, 04:04 AM
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Mar. 30 2007,20:35)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,18:25)]No, I am not married. I never found the right person. Well, actually I think I did find the right person but unfortunately I cannot marry her. For now I enjoy the single life and I have girl friends instead of a wife.
Then you are in no position to comment on whether or not married men (because let's not kid ourselves here, which woman is paying alimony? In America??? You've got to be kidding) should be paying alimony.
I've been married once before, and this current marriage is my second.
The first was filled with her seeking to take the most money from me. #She was a greedy and lazy b*** who was considerate of no one else but herself. #
Alimony and child support are very much abused today.
It takes a married man to understand that, and even then, it takes a married man who's been divorced to understand that.
And until you fill those shoes, you have no right telling ME that I should "pay up" to some b**ch who cheated on me, lied, divorced me then wanted MY hard earned money.
Quote[/b] ]In this particular case the guy was married to her. I don;t care what she did later on. The fact is that she is the same person that he was married to. #Don't beleive me, check the DNA. #Like it or not the guy was married to her. Now he's got to pay up.
I agree that in this case the guy should pay, because he's a fool for getting himself stuck with paying alimony to her. #A deal is a deal.
But in the broader sense, men shouldn't have to "pay up" because their ex wife decided she wanted to go her own separate way and doesn't want to work and earn her own keep. #That in itself is silly.
Marriage is a hell of a thing. #You won't know anything about it until you're in it.
Quote[/b] ]
Then you are in no position to comment on whether or not married men (because let's not kid ourselves here, which woman is paying alimony? In America??? You've got to be kidding) should be paying alimony.
Of course married men are going to be opposed to alimony. After all, when they get the divorce they are the ones who are going to have to pay up. Speeders don't like traffic cops either.
Quote[/b] ]
And until you fill those shoes, you have no right telling ME that I should "pay up" to some b**ch who cheated on me, lied, divorced me then wanted MY hard earned money.
Well, thats one side of the story and if true then i am sorry to hear that. But not all marriages are the same. I'm not the one telling anyone to pay up the law is. That's the law. I think alimony and child support is a good idea. The burden of support, both during marriage and after divorce should rest primarilly on the couple both in marriage and divorce. Why should I as a single unmarried taxpayer have to pick up the burden of someone else's folly.
Quote[/b] ]
But in the broader sense, men shouldn't have to "pay up" because their ex wife decided she wanted to go her own separate way and doesn't want to work and earn her own keep. #That in itself is silly.
Part of being married is supporting one's spouse. Alimony is just not granted, it is decided in court and the amout to be paid is dependent on various factors. Simply starting a marriage , keeping it going for a few years then ending it and dumping that support on the state is not an option. Why should supporing an ex-wife be my problem ? which it becomes when a spouse can no longer support herself and has to start receiving welfare to compensate for the support she was receiving from her spouse. At that point it becomes my problem which it shouldn't be.
The support should come from the spouse, as it did when the couple was married.
I underststand tough situations arise during marriages and in their aftermath and it's not always easy and it's often hard to judge who is right or wrong and sometimes one of the parties involved can get some tough and rotten breaks and things are not always fair. But I still think alimony and child support although sometimes abused) are a important in assuring adequate support after divorce.
N5NPO
03-31-2007, 04:16 AM
Question for you 'IZE
If you were to be married and at some time later it was learned that your spouce was haveing an affair and decide to move out and leave you with the children...
Should she get allimony? Should she be able to come back 2 years later after her new 10 yr younger BF and get settled and take the kids that she left and then get Child support? What do you think, based on the scenario as I have implied it?
Honest question, honest answer.
Thanks
n2ize
03-31-2007, 04:51 AM
Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ Mar. 30 2007,21:16)]Question for you 'IZE
If you were to be married and at some time later it was learned that your spouce was haveing an affair and decide to move out and leave you with the children...
Should she get allimony? Should she be able to come back 2 years later after her new 10 yr younger BF and get settled and take the kids that she left and then get Child support? What do you think, based on the scenario as I have implied it?
Honest question, honest answer.
Thanks
Let me answer your question with a question. If I have an argument with my girlfriend should she shoot me in my sleep ? There are a tot of things that shoud not be done but the bottom line is that alimony is decided in court on a case by case basis and if the court decides then I just have to pay it. If I get a divorce and my wife doesn't work and she has no skill or means of support should I be required to pay alimony or should the taxpayers have to support her ? Every case is different and there are a lot of scenarios.
W1GUH
03-31-2007, 05:12 AM
Let's face it. As long as the laws are written by pussy-whipped wimps who will do anything to "get it", the laws will always be tilted to who they "get it" from. Men think with the smaller of their two heads, and that includes the men who write the laws. What do they care who has to pay because of the laws they passed because they're pussy whipped?
This is the way it is....how ya gonna change that?
n2ize
03-31-2007, 05:25 AM
Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 30 2007,22:12)]Let's face it. #As long as the laws are written by pussy-whipped wimps who will do anything to "get it", the laws will always be tilted to who they "get it" from. #Men think with the smaller of their two heads, and that includes the men who write the laws. #What do they care who has to pay because of the laws they passed because they're pussy whipped?
This is the way it is....how ya gonna change that?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
W1GUH
03-31-2007, 05:36 AM
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 29 2007,23:25)]Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Mar. 30 2007,22:12)]Let's face it. As long as the laws are written by pussy-whipped wimps who will do anything to "get it", the laws will always be tilted to who they "get it" from. Men think with the smaller of their two heads, and that includes the men who write the laws. What do they care who has to pay because of the laws they passed because they're pussy whipped?
This is the way it is....how ya gonna change that?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Yep, the situation is a BIG http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif But that's the way we really are.
N5NPO
03-31-2007, 01:24 PM
Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Mar. 30 2007,21:51)]Quote[/b] (N5NPO @ Mar. 30 2007,21:16)]Question for you 'IZE
If you were to be married and at some time later it was learned that your spouce was haveing an affair and decide to move out and leave you with the children...
Should she get allimony? Should she be able to come back 2 years later after her new 10 yr younger BF and get settled and take the kids that she left and then get Child support? What do you think, based on the scenario as I have implied it?
Honest question, honest answer.
Thanks
Let me answer your question with a question. If I have an argument with my girlfriend should she shoot me in my sleep ? There are a tot of things that shoud not be done but the bottom line is that alimony is decided in court on a case by case basis and if the court decides then I just have to pay it. If I get a divorce and my wife doesn't work and she has no skill or means of support #should I be required to pay alimony or should the taxpayers have to support her ? Every case is different and there are a lot of scenarios.
Well, thank you for (not) answereing my question.
Thanks for the response...
Slavery was one legal too... Doesn't make it right....
There are many laws in this country that need to be changed, alimony, controlled substances, property taxes.. etc..
Later
Norm