The Amber Alert "System" [Archive]

N7CPC

08-05-2002, 06:24 PM

If the system is implimented nation wide the roll of the Radio Amateur could be likened to standind in a hail storm with a baseball bat. Sad as this may be, it is true.

The first line of defence for our children are the parents. taking back control of ones family is the first and best hope for America's children.

For far too long now the "powers that be" have presumed to "know what is best" for us all. Sence the acceptance of this intrusion into every facet of our lives, more and more of our children have fallen prey to predation or the poor choices made by children being "raised" by a by a system designed not for the greater good of the population but for control.

The alert system worked in an area with an information infrastructure not shared by many areas.

It is not the function of Hams to take up arms and play the vigilanty hunting party. Any right minded individule with information can and should alert the authorities.

The situation in Ca. recently was no more avoidable than the insanity of any other psyco running loose in society. The best way to keep your children safe is to take responsibality for their ability to make choices that don't put them in harms way.

73 de Craig.......N7CPC

WB2WIK

08-05-2002, 07:07 PM

Craig, I think you meant, "no less avoidable."

After we all cheered and applauded that the two kidnapped girls were found okay and will recover from this experience, the first thing I could think of was, "What the heck were 16 and 17 year-old girls doing up in that remote place at 1http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0am, in the first place?" Good grief. If that, alone, doesn't scare the crap out of their parents, then there's a problem, there.

As far as hams assisting in Amber Alerts, I think we can. Obviously, the authorities are not looking for heroes and I don't think we'll be accepted in that role. However, if we can mobilize search teams who are specifically looking for vehicles or people identifiable because of well publicized alerts, and coordinate our activities using VHF-FM or whatever, and then simply report our findings -- if any -- to law enforcement by dialing "911" or other suitable exchange, just as any private citizen might, of course we can help.

If a member of a ham radio "neighborhood watch" or whatever was instrumental in helping the authorities capture bad guys, then it would be nice to let the media know after the fact that ham radio operators were involved, and were good guys. I wouldn't even bother telling the authorities, they're busy. But I would call the local news stations and newspapers, and tell them, "by the way, you know that the guy who phoned 911 to report that car driven by the <robber, rapist, murderer, whatever -- fill in the blank> was a ham radio operator who coordinated his search using ham equipment?" that might prompt a personal interview which could then focus on the merits of ham radio.

No publicity is bad publicity. Might just help pass the new House Resolution being considered...

WB2WIK/6

N0FPE

08-05-2002, 07:09 PM

Craig you said it all!!

The Parents MUST be the first line of defense. Parents need to stop hoping society will take care of their kids and do it themselves.

Dan

W0BKR

08-05-2002, 07:15 PM

Steve & Dan,

I have to agree with your assessment(s). #The more eyes out looking and watching the better.

To allow minors out that late to me, is ludicrous. #Of course, I don't have all the details. #Kinda like the old standardized statement when some juvenile's parent is interviewed after he shot a bunch of kids in a school, "he always was a quiet withdrawn boy", yeah, whatever.

First line of defense is with the parents, who sometimes, are stretched thin and with divorced homes, can cause "gaps" in that defense.

I saw two things wrong with this scenario, which turned out positive (for a change).

1. Convicted known rapist "out on parole" (otherwise, not in jail).
2. #Kids out later then most parents

However in the episode from Missouri, a little girl was staying at her neighbor's house with her divorced dad, who just happened to have a homeless crazy guy staying there too, and she ended up dead.

Why would anyone put a child in a potential harm's way is beyond me. #But to get to the post. #yes, Amateurs have a role, just a storm spotters (skywarn), they should implement a program known as (Childwarn) or Amberwarn, to work with the authorities to watch, spot, keep an eye out for a known criminal, missing child, etc. #Afterall, the more eyes looking, the better.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

ka1kjz

08-05-2002, 09:52 PM

Our role would be simple, just another media outlet to get the news out. It be another set of eyes out there.

When ragchewing on your local repeater with the locals, is your broadcast radio on? No? Didnt think so.

So on your way home from work, you probably missed the whole thing.... you are but one more set of eyes on the road.

Its that bloody simple! No amateur police force, no amber alert nets, no chasing the perp down the highway staying with him..

JUST INFORM THE USERS OF YOUR REPEATER, whatever they do after that is their problem.

KB9YFI

08-05-2002, 09:52 PM

If those poor victims had not have been disarmed then the whole story would have had an earlier happy ending. #Those "boyfriends" were pretty damn pussy in my account. #I would never,ever, armed or not, let anyone take my wife/girlfriend/child without a fight. #If that meant that the perp had to shoot me dead I would still have fought him. #Those guys just let that creep duct-tape them up and take their women without a fight!. #What has become of this country? #What has Sesame Street taught our kids? #We have become a nation of sheep unable to defend ourselves. #The police never have been able to defend us. #Instead they are just there to pick up the pieces, mop up the blood-stains and fill out the paperwork. #Wake up America!!!! Amber alerts and spies in the woodwork will never replace individuals who are responsible for their own safety and welfare. #When guns are outlawed, terrorists only need boxcutters...

Jim - KB9YFI

WB2GOF

08-06-2002, 03:19 AM

Or...you could look at it that if the perp didn't have guns, the boyfriends could have defended them. #Background checks and #a seven or fourteen day waiting period before getting a gun is a good thing, and a small price to pay. #You still get your gun, if you are a law-abiding citizen. #But we need to make sure you are not some psycho or felon who needs the weapon to inflict more harm on others. #My apologies to all law abiding gun owners, but I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. #And we've seen too many felons that are armed and after our children these days, like the Elizabeth Smart incident (who, incidentally is still missing), Samantha Runnion (perp may or may not have been armed), a priest shooting a while back (another mental case with a rifle, in a church, no less - should church going citizens need to carry arms into mass???), and this latest sicko (I'm glad he's dead, save us $$$ and the courts time).

KB9YFI

08-06-2002, 03:29 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 05 2002,22:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or...you could look at it that if the perp didn't have guns, the boyfriends could have defended them. #Background checks and #a seven or fourteen day waiting period before getting a gun is a good thing, and a small price to pay. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Do you REALLY believe that drivel? Criminals don't OBEY laws. That is why they are criminals! Guns will always be available to the criminals. There is no way to stop that without rounding up every gun on the face of the earth and every book that even mentions how to make them and gunpowder. Search every house, every property at regular intervals using the massive manpower only the army could round up for contraband guns and imprison or lobotomize every person with the knowledge and the memory of how to build guns and make gunpowder. You would have to repeal the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth Amendments to the Constitution to do this. I would rather that hypothetical PERP shoot me in the head than my own government thank you.

Jim - KB9YFI

WB2GOF

08-06-2002, 03:36 AM

I do I do I do. #Even if it bothers the likes of you. #Like I said, should we all be packin' when we go to church to pray? #Sorta like the Old West, don'tcha figger? #I don't think the Lord would approve. Besides, since when has a Libertarian like you go defending the US Constitution?

KB1GYQ

08-06-2002, 03:52 AM

Now, now, Mike... who's throwing the names around this time?

KB1GYQ

08-06-2002, 03:55 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 05 2002,23:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">should we all be packin' when we go to church to pray[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yup.

Also a good idea to bring a mind and a copy of the book. Keep the preacher man honest.

n0xas

08-06-2002, 04:15 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 05 2002,22:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Background checks and #a seven or fourteen day waiting period before getting a gun is a good thing, and a small price to pay. #You still get your gun, if you are a law-abiding citizen. #But we need to make sure you are not some psycho or felon who needs the weapon to inflict more harm on others.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ummm... #hate to break this to you, but I'd have a lot easier time buying a gun illegally than legally. #Plunk down cash, take gun, no questions asked, no sales tax either. #I'm OK with background checks and I'm sure they will help, but please don't sound like you think it will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, it just sounds too silly. #It's embarrassing.

As for the whole "Amber Alert" thing, sounds like a well-meaning way to completely desensitize the American public to child abductions. I live in Nebraska... some kid gets snatched in Lower Slobovia or East L.A., what do you think I'm going to do, go start searching my neighborhood? I don't think so. I'm going to watch the newspaper to see where they find the body. Now if there's something close by, sure, but there aren't anough hams to make much of a difference. I see *one* ham operator in my office -- me -- but every breathing soul carries a cellular phone and has an AM/FM radio in their car.

Dale

KB9YFI

08-06-2002, 04:19 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 05 2002,22:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do I do I do. #Even if it bothers the likes of you. #Like I said, should we all be packin' when we go to church to pray? #Sorta like the Old West, don'tcha figger? #I don't think the Lord would approve. #Besides, since when has a Libertarian like you go defending the US Constitution?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A: I don't go to church. I like to do my own thinking
B: I don't see nothing wrong with "packing" in church. Guns are not evil. God does not look down on them.
C: The Constitution is an imperfect document but as a libertarian I could work with it if it were actually followed. 99% of the Federal government is in violation of it. I would like to see all but the next 5 Amendments ratified after the original 10 abolished. (all the ones ratified in the 20th century I might add) The five were needed- the rest are junk- especially #16 and #18 (which #21 sort of helped but didn't fix entirely- see the whiskey rebellion early on in the history of the Republic to understand what I'm talking about there)
D: I think that Bill of Rights enforcement needs to be made the paramount law of the land. Any politician who attempts to pass legislation that counteracts the individual freedoms listed therein should be charged with treason and immediately hung after a speedy and fair trial.
E: That is something I would defend with my life.

Jim - KB9YFI

k9kjm

08-06-2002, 06:07 AM

To: WB2GOF: If you think the "perps" obtain guns
by legal means and will obey your "waiting periods" or
whatever, Take your head out of the sand, or wherever it is. #Check the crime rates in the now majority of states
where concealed carry of handguns is now permitted in this country. CRIME RATES HAVE DROPPED IN ALL SUCH STATES! # #Also, check real history. The so called "wild west" where most everyone carried guns had MUCH lower crime rates than the so-called peaceful eastern states. An armed society is a polite society. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

W0BKR

08-06-2002, 11:46 AM

I don't think 5 and 6 year olds can yet buy guns on their own.
The post is the amateur's role in the Amber Alert System. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB2GOF

08-06-2002, 01:41 PM

Think about this: as less and less illegal guns are around to be had, their prices increase. #Simple supply and demand. #Look at the illegal drugs market, for example, fellas. #The common criminal does not have wads of cash to buy such weapons. #It will eventually become harder and harder to obtain them, due to increased costs. #It would be even harder if states that freely allowed such purchases would restrict them, so that these guns would not be transported across state lines to other states where gun control is tighter.
YFI, as to your earlier comments, what 17 year old, with a pistol under his seat, or a rifle in the gun rack in the back, is going to risk his life to some perp pointing a weapon thru the window of his vehicle at him? #The minute he moves for his weapon, bang, it's all over. #And it turns out, that the Amber Alert did work, and help the authorities catch this guy.
GYQ - What names? #He called my ideas drivel. #You may not like them, they may be different; but I would never call someone else's opinion anything derogatory. #I can disagree civilly, without the put-downs and name calling. #This is an open forum for the exchange of opinions. #No one else's is superior, they are all different. #Show some respect to your fellow Ham, even if you disagree. #It's a basic Human courtesy. #Plus it makes us look bad when we act like children.

08-06-2002, 03:23 PM

As a police officer for over twenty years I can say that the intent on the Amber plan is for the public (HAM or NON-HAM) to be aware of the alert information provided by the AMBER group and, report any observations to proper authorities.

No one is expecting or asking that you take any action other than reporting. Many of the crimes I investigated are solved as the result of a person reporting information to me.

There are those that won't wish to get involved, and that's their choice.

WB2WIK

08-06-2002, 06:44 PM

I wish it would finally get to the point where nobody had any guns, so if someone wanted to rob a bank, he better be prepared to duke it out with the guard.

I hope I never have to participate in an "Amber Alert," but I have used ham radio to call in two car fires and one suspicious person, and in those cases my report was the first one the authorities received. 2m FM to the rescue, and got there faster than others with cell phones (assuming anybody was trying), likely because here in our area we have a direct patch to the Sherriff's Department via amateur radio, and it doesn't use the "911" utility.

Possibly similar systems would be helpful in other parts of the country. If it saves one kid, it would be worth any investment.

WB2WIK/6

KB9YFI

08-06-2002, 11:04 PM

GOF: Your theory of supply and demand is inaccurate. As the prices of legal weapons have skyrocketed after the policies of King George I and Willy the wonder worm made legal sales of many types of weapons and hi-cap mags difficult the prices of illegal weapons have dropped considerably. Huge stockpiles of previously legal merchandise became illegal and flooded the underground market. Post-ban weapons are very dangerous to have in your possession if you value your high-paying job and clean record. Felons, thieves and rapists already have long rap sheets, rarely have good-paying jobs they fear loosing and fear not the extra 1 or 2 years possession of illegal weapons will add to their sentence for murder, assault and rape.

They don't care that the AK they bought for $100 has a serial number that makes it illegal and post import ban. They snatch it up. If you were found with one in your possession you would get severe fines (for you) and black marks on your record. To the crooks they are just badges of honor. To me a 2-year sentence would be the same as death. To him it's a vacation. Cheap illegal guns are available in Britain, the mecca of gun laws. Nearly all legal citizens there are not allowed access to guns. That has not stopped motorcycle-riding gangmembers from riding up and down the streets shooting up the place with full-auto weapons. Why worry about full-auto laws when the mere possession of a starter's pistol is illegal? Get the biggest gun made while you are at it breaking a law. Illegal guns flow into England like water.

They can't stop whole shipments of thousands of pounds of drugs. What makes you think they can get all the guns? Dogs can't even smell the guns like they can drugs. For the final point in your case. That guy would never have stuck his head into a car with 4 armed individuals and only his one gun. He might be able to shoot one of them but they surely would have finished him off before he got to number 2. Guns prevent more crime than they ever stop in the act. Oftentimes the "victim" never even knows that a criminal aborted the stalk because the 'perp' got spooked by the thought they might be packing.

Jim - KB9YFI

KB1GYQ

08-07-2002, 12:49 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 06 2002,09:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GYQ - What names? #... I can disagree civilly, without the put-downs and name calling. #This is an open forum for the exchange of opinions ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, old man, a while back, in another thread, I called a "Jew" a "Jew", and it upset you... here you call a "Libertarian" a "Libertarian", and you expect noone to be upset. Oy!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2GOF

08-07-2002, 01:36 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 06 2002,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 06 2002,09:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GYQ - What names? #... I can disagree civilly, without the put-downs and name calling. #This is an open forum for the exchange of opinions ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, old man, a while back, in another thread, I called a "Jew" a "Jew", and it upset you... here you call a "Libertarian" a "Libertarian", and you expect noone to be upset. Oy!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OM, One is a political affiliation, and the other is a religion. One has nothing to do with the other, as does your post.

WB2GOF

08-07-2002, 01:40 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YFI @ Aug. 06 2002,19http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#For the final point in your case. That guy would never have stuck his head into a car with 4 armed individuals and only his one gun. #He might be able to shoot one of them but they surely would have finished him off before he got to number two[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
YFI - There were only two of them in the first car he hijacked. #The other two appeared later. #Secondly, I don't believe that many 17 year old girls going on a date, would be packin'. #That might appear as if she did not want any advances, #nudge, nudge, wink, wink. #At least, none of the girls I dated would have. Maybe you live in the Old West, where women pack. Anyway, not many women, nevertheless girls, pack a pistol in their waist. #So the perp would shoot the guy before he could draw the gun, and still get the girl.

KB1GYQ

08-07-2002, 02:12 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 07 2002,09:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 06 2002,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 06 2002,09:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GYQ - What names? #... I can disagree civilly, without the put-downs and name calling. #This is an open forum for the exchange of opinions ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, old man, a while back, in another thread, I called a "Jew" a "Jew", and it upset you... here you call a "Libertarian" a "Libertarian", and you expect noone to be upset. Oy!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OM, One is a political affiliation, and the other is a religion. #One has nothing to do with the other, as does your post.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry OM, they are both labels.... both a nationality and a religion...]

BTW ... I don't seem to find much difference between politics and religion, both are ideologies. The only difference is that one has a human as the leader, the other has a human pretending to represent god as the leader.

WB2GOF

08-07-2002, 02:54 PM

GYQ - I'll agree with your latest post about both being labels...but not to pick up an old argument, it seemed to me that one was used in a derogatory manner. #Forgive me, OM, if that was not the case.

KB1GYQ

08-07-2002, 03:34 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2GOF @ Aug. 07 2002,10:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GYQ - I'll agree with your latest post about both being labels...but not to pick up an old argument, it seemed to me that one was used in a derogatory manner. #Forgive me, OM, if that was not the case.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It was used in a descriptive fashion, with no intent to defame the individual, nationality, or those who adhere to either ideology therein represented. Apology accepted.

WB2GOF

08-07-2002, 03:46 PM

GYQ - Hey, if I knew your email address contained the words "Meshugga," I would have never had brought it up in the first place!

n0xas

08-07-2002, 08:39 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 07 2002,09:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only difference is that one has a human as the leader, the other has a human pretending to represent god as the leader.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You just described politics twice... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KB9YFI

08-08-2002, 01:16 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 06 2002,19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, old man, a while back, in another thread, I called a "Jew" a "Jew", and it upset you... here you call a "Libertarian" a "Libertarian", and you expect noone to be upset. Oy![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't much mind being called a libertarian but being called a Libertarian (big-L) is not exactly correct. #I am no longer a dues-paying member of the Libertarian Party due to their ineffective leadership and wishy-washy ideals that has watered down their party planks with tripe and half-measures. #The Washington Elite of the Libertarian Party have become a bunch of professionally-inept politicians. #They have become the same sort of finger-in-the-wind politician that they profess a will to overturn. #Their only real difference is they fail to get elected. #They have become very successful in making a living at unsuccessfully and repeatedly running for high public office. #Their aim is not to succeed but to continue raising money. #Although they are successful in raising money they are morally bankrupt. #My personal politics runs towards Anarcho-Capitalism.(look it up) #I would like to see a minimalist state erode into total personal Freedom and responsibility under the N.A.P. #I'm a minority amongst a greater minority with back-room ideals which would make even Hairy Brownie blush.

Jim - KB9YFI

WB2GOF

08-08-2002, 02:41 PM

To get back to the topic of the Amber Alert System, Can you imagine what would happen if a couple of old geezers (read: average-aged Amateur Radio Ops), with antennas sticking out of their cars and HT's in their hands, pulled up and told a bunch of kids on the corner they were looking for some poor little lost girl??? Can you say lynching? Beating? Threats? Calling the local PD? They are better of staying home and bickering on 75 meters about who has the best signal, or whose prostate is in the worst shape!!!

KB9YFI

08-08-2002, 02:46 PM

They would probably be pulled out of their vehicle and beaten to death by a bunch of gang-bangers. No good dead goes unpunished.

Jim - KB9YFI

KB1GYQ

08-08-2002, 05:17 PM

That's why the OM's should be packing... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

WB2GOF

08-08-2002, 05:23 PM

Here we go again!

KB9YFI

08-08-2002, 05:24 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ Aug. 08 2002,12:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's why the OM's should be packing... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Everywhere, all the time. Even in church when I go for weddings and funerals.

Jim - KB9YFI

K6UEY

08-08-2002, 11:51 PM

I really don't think you would find the 75 meter crowd in that type of situation,at least not the individuals who have retreated to 75 meters seeking refuge. I believe the action described would be more than not, some thing the activist from 2 meters or 10 meters might be involved in. More specifically those who are seeking change for the sake of change and not for the advancement of Ham Radio or the public good, but more for individual satisfaction of having accomplished some thing in their life, worthwhile or not.
Life is too short for QRP......Enjoy # #73, # ORV

AC7UX

08-09-2002, 01:28 AM

The way I see it, the only role amateur radio has in the amber alert system is, well, nothing. What role does one expect from amateur radio? I see some clown with a kid the cops are looking for, I dont get on the radio. I pick up my cellphone. now if I dont have a cellphone then fine, get on a repeater ask someone to make the call in for you, I just dont see any other role we can play. It`s not a natural disaster. What would you set a net up for?I think the starter of this topic has good intentions with asking the question, but really, I just dont see any role for amateur radio.

KG4RUL

08-09-2002, 11:41 AM

I believe amateur radio can be a useful part of the 'Amber Alert' program. #The key to the success of this program is the number of eyes looking for missing children. #If amateurs can add to this number, then they should be. #

This participation could be triggered by an announcement over local repeaters. #We already do this with severe weather alerts, in most cases, automatically.

As far as how to participate:

1 - Look, but take do not action yourself

2 - Report what you see

3 - Keep your self out of harm's way

Dennis - KG4RUL

W0BKR

08-09-2002, 11:53 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AC7UX @ Aug. 08 2002,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The way I see it, the only role amateur radio has in the amber alert system is, well, nothing. What role does one expect from amateur radio? I see some clown with a kid the cops are looking for, I dont get on the radio. I pick up my cellphone. now if I dont have a cellphone then fine, get on a repeater ask someone to make the call in for you, I just dont see any other role we can play. It`s not a natural disaster. What would you set a net up for?I think the starter of this topic has good intentions with asking the question, but really, I just dont see any role for amateur radio.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think the point was stated, but missed in the writing. #The amateur op has the ability to "be out there" just as skywarn trained individuals are "just out there". #

Amateurs are often times called up to assist in the search for a lost child. Why not with the kidnapping situation? Just a thought.

As to a net, I suppose if one wanted one, fine. Kind of an emergency net, reporting if the vehicle, individual, lost child, whatever has been spotted and where, with the police participating in a comand cneter of sorts.

The post is: #What role do you see for amateur ops (is there one, should there be one, etc.). #It would certainly be great press if "we" did participate and the result was positive.

All in all, I feel that amateurs, just as citizens, have the responsibility to report suspicious activities or individuals that match a description provided by the authorities. #Having amateur radio (or a cell phone) definitely can help speed up the reporting process.

I think some individuals have missed the intentions of the post. #Please rethink or re-read it.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

KB9YFI

08-09-2002, 01:59 PM

I find that the modern attitude of "don't get involved" to be disgusting. #Everyone talks as though "vigilante" is a bad word. #The nation was founded on the principle that the citizen is the seat of power. #You and I, as individuals, are the sovereign. #The government and the police are just hired hands we recruited to keep the peace when the rest of the citizens are at work, eating dinner or sleeping. #

I can't believe that if you saw someone being kidnapped, or assaulted, or robbed that all you could think of doing is calling 911 and hiding in a corner? #Somehow actually putting your own life in danger to help another innocent in need is somehow beneath you? #Is the danger of getting hurt that much more compelling that the danger of that innocent young victim being killed, absconded with, or having their innocence taken not as important? #What a world of sheep we have become. #We will not even come to our brothers side and render aid when they are in dire need. #We wait for the hired help even though we know them to be ineffective and oftentimes too late to do anything more than pick up the pieces and mop up the bloodstains. #At least the proper paperwork gets done.

Force is the birthright of every human being. #While initiating force on another person is morally wrong, using whatever force is necessary to stop an individual that is initiating force is not only justified, #but required if we are to survive. #When someone attacks you and you don't fight back you are giving up your sovereignty. #You have the right to protect yourself and your property with whatever force is necessary up to an including deadly force. #As a Free Citizen you also have the right and responsibility to render aid to other innocent victims at the time of a crime and afterwards to help bring the criminal to justice. #

Our legal system has evolved into a monopoly. #A monopoly from which the common man is excluded. #They don't ask for help and sometimes become upset when they are given help. #We are "interfering with their jobs." #They don't really want to protect you but to protect their own budgets, staffing levels and protocols. #Your protection and safety are no longer important except for keeping you in fear so that you support them with money and materials. #We have let this happen because as a nation we have become too lazy to protect ourselves and our neighbors and instead have passed the responsibility of our safety to a 3rd party. #This is a third party that doesn't and can never give us our money's worth as long as we do not actively participate. #The Government and police have decided that we are no longer the paying clients for which they work but instead hosts for their parasitic positions. #Instead of the bosses we really are, citizens have become the beasts of burden. #

It all goes back to the fact that we have abrogated our responsibility of self-rule to the hired help. #It has been so long since this occurred that we have become sheep in a land of Canines. #Wolves prey on us while sheep dogs bleed us for protection from these wolves. #The two look and act the same. # #Only their uniforms are different. #How did we get here and how can we get back? #We need to do more than just keeping our eyes open and our fingers poised over the magic number "911" on our cell phones. #That just is not enough. #We need to throw off the chains of slavery and assume the mantle of responsibility that all Free Men must wear.

Jim - KB9YFI

K3RRR

08-09-2002, 03:23 PM

I don't think the Amber Alert for hams was meant to be any different than the alert being posted on highway signs. Be aware of your immediate area and look for signs of the missing child or person that took them. It does not say go out and start hunting for them yourself. Each of us have an area we know very well and know if there is something going on there. The "observations" made by non-search people is what made the difference. Guys that are avoiding the police know that the few minutes after one goes by is the best time to move around. If yoiu take away that safe time it can make a difference in the time it takes to find them.

Getting envolved with the person itself. That is a personal decision each of us have to make at that very moment. Some people feel they cannot just be observers when a life is at stake while just waiting for the real players to arrive. Amber Alert does not ask, demand or even suggest taking personal action - only observe and report if necessary. Hams have an additional ability that having radios give them. In todays cell phone world that is really not that much more that they have to offer because they are hams.

AC7UX

08-09-2002, 05:26 PM

What role does amateur radio play in the AMBER alert system. that is the question. the incredibly long and tedious political manifestoes that are posted on every single thread recently offer nothing of value and is magniloquent to say the least. rambo is a movie character and it`s really sad when some people dont realize that. trying to take things into your own hands could and most likely would get the victim killed. The amateur service provides communications and networks when normal channels are down or inoperative for some reason, such as natural disasters. the AMBER alert system is a network in and of it`s self. highway signs, local news outlets are all utilized. AMBER stands for, Americas missing: broadcast emergency response. a redundant network set up by amateurs seems a waste of resources to me. we are asked as citizens to be alert and report what is pertinent to the proper authoritys. all of which is more likely to be done by cellphone. I would be open to inlightenment,(without the manifestoes please. I think we have all had enough of that.) but I just dont see any role for amateur radio in the AMBER alert system.

KB9YFI

08-09-2002, 05:40 PM

There are some weak-willed individuals who prefer to live in a make-believe socialist utopia where they never have to get their fingers dirty much less bloody even in preparing their own meals. This is a make-believe fantasy that only exists behind the trolley on Mr. Roger's neighborhood. The reality behind the curtain is much more disgusting than life could ever be if grown-ups took care of themselves and each other instead of waiting for the nanny-state to come change their diapers.

Manifestos indeed! If anyone wants to live in the fantasy world those Marxist dreamers have built for the meek in the later part of the 20th century then by all means immerse yourself in self-loathing and decadence. Just don't continue your insistence that the rest of what is left of Free Society follow you down that path of destruction and Stateism.

Jim - KB9YFI

AC7UX

08-10-2002, 10:51 AM

The empty vessel makes the greatest sound.....SHAKESPEARE.....

KB9YFI

08-10-2002, 01:35 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AC7UX @ Aug. 10 2002,05:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The empty vessel makes the greatest sound.....SHAKESPEARE.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I find the incessant quoting for the sake of quoting to be quite boring. Do you have anything personal to add or does your entire personality consist of a Shakespeare quote search engine? Frankly I prefer the "......yawn....." post to this drivel. Post anything you like but at least put some of your own words down instead of merely quoting out of context some long-dead literary hack.

Jim - KB9YFI

N7CPC

08-10-2002, 05:10 PM

Me thinks he protestth too much............

73

AC7UX

08-10-2002, 06:24 PM

Read the post I posted above, my own words and on topic. try it your self sometime people. this has the makings of a good thread to discuss to attributes of amateur radio and it`s relevance to the AMBER alert system. could and should be a good thread to offer opinions ABOUT THE AMBER ALERT SYSTEM. long live the bard.

KB9YFI

08-10-2002, 06:57 PM

I think that anything a person can do to help stop an abduction or any other violent crime in progress is a good thing. One of the ways a club or individual amateur could help spread the word fast would be to link their repeater to the emergency broadcast system and to the Amber alert system in their area. This would allow the message to go out among the hams who monitor the repeater and let them know to keep their eyes open. If they see the suspect then they can either call 911 on their cell-phones or autopatch the authorities via radio.

If I saw an opportunity to help I would surely do whatever I could within my abilities to help a child survive an abduction and bring the perpetrator of such a crime to justice.

How about that for staying on topic? Do I get a gold star now? Please post it next to my potty-training stars so my mommy can be proud of me.

Jim - KB9YFI

P.S. The bard is dead- long dead and the worms have him.