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K3VR
03-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Federal Communications Commission DA 07-881
Before the Federal Communications Commission
Washington, D.C. 20554

In the Matter of Ben Metzger dba
1 Stop Communications
1 Stop CB Shop Titusville, Florida

File Number EB-05-TP-330
NAL/Acct. No. 200732700004
FRN 0015839350

FORFEITURE ORDER

Adopted: #February 28, 2007 Released: #March 2, 2007
By the Regional Director, South Central Region, Enforcement Bureau:

I. INTRODUCTION

1. In this Forfeiture Order (“Order”), we issue a monetary forfeiture in the amount of seven thousand dollars($7,000) to Ben Metzger dba 1 Stop Communications / 1 Stop CB Shop in Titusville, Florida for willful and repeated violation of Section 302(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended (“Act”),1 and Section 2.803(a) of the Commission’s Rules (“Rules”).

2 #The noted violation involves Mr. Metzger’s offering for sale non-certified Citizens Band (“CB”) transceivers.3

II. #BACKGROUND

2. On March 21, 2006, the Commission’s Tampa Office of the Enforcement Bureau (“Tampa Office”) issued Mr. Metzger / 1 Stop Communications / 1 Stop CB Shop a Citation for marketing at his store in Titusville non-certified CB transceivers, including Connex models 3300, CX 3300HP, CX 4400HP and Galaxy models DX44 and DX88HL, in violation of Section 302(b) of the Act and Section 2.803(a)(1) of the Rules. #

3. In a response dated March 31, 2006, Mr. Metzger stated that the radio models listed in the Citation were Amateur Radio Service (“ARS”) radios, which do not require type acceptance. #On May 11, 2006, the Tampa Office responded that the models were intended for use on CB as well as ARS frequencies because they have built-in design features which facilitate their operation on CB frequencies by the exercise of simple, end-user accessible modifications to the devices. #Accordingly, the letter advised, such devices are considered CB transmitters pursuant to Section 95.603© of the Rules,4
irrespective of any labeling purporting the devices to be “Amateur Radio Transceivers.”

4. In a response dated May 16, 2006, Mr. Metzger stated he removed the Connex and Galaxy radios mentioned in the Citation from his store, the 1 Stop CB Shop. #On June 6, 2006, the Tampa Office received a letter from his attorney, which requested that the Citation be withdrawn, because the radios were marketed and sold as ARS radios, not CB radios. #The Citation was not withdrawn.

5. On June 22, 2006, agents from the Tampa Office revisited the 1 Stop CB Shop in Titusville and observed a “40 Channel” Connex CX 3300HP amateur transceiver along with other uncertified radios in the display case. #The Commission’s Office of Engineering and Technology (“OET”) previously tested Connex models very similar to the CX 3300HP and determined them to be non-certified CB transceivers because they could be easily modified to operate on CB frequencies. #The agents inquired whether this particular Connex could operate on both CB channels and amateur bands. #Mr. Metzger stated that there were easy directions on the Internet which show how to modify the radio to operate on CB frequencies. #He also stated that he could easily modify the radio to operate on the CB channels for a small “tune-up” charge. #The agents paid him for the radio and the “tune-up.” #Mr. Metzger handed them the modified Connex CX 3300HP transceiver about 15-20 minutes later and then demonstrated how to use the different toggle switches on the radio to switch from the amateur band to the different CB channels. #The agents later determined that the modified Connex radio purchased from the 1 Stop CB
Shop was capable of operating on frequencies from 25.615 MHz to 28.305 MHz with an output power
that varied from 2.4 watts to 15 watts. #

6. On December 12, 2006, the Tampa Office issued a Notice of Apparent Liability for Forfeiture to Mr. Metzger in the amount of seven thousand dollars ($7,000) for the apparent willful and repeated violation of Section 302(b) of the Act and Section 2.803(a) of the Rules.5 #Mr. Metzger submitted a response to the NAL requesting cancellation of the proposed forfeiture.

III. DISCUSSION

7. The proposed forfeiture amount in this case was assessed in accordance with Section 503(b) of the Act,6 Section 1.80 of the Rules,7 and The Commission’s Forfeiture Policy Statement and Amendment of Section 1.80 of the Rules to Incorporate the Forfeiture Guidelines, 12 FCC Rcd 17087 (1997), recon. denied, 15 FCC Rcd 303 (1999) (“Forfeiture Policy Statement”). #In examining Mr. Metzger’s response, Section 503(b) of the Act requires that the Commission take into account the nature, circumstances, extent and gravity of the violation and, with respect to the violator, the degree of
culpability, any history of prior offenses, ability to pay, and other such matters as justice may require. 8

8. Section 302(b) of the Act provides that “[n]o person shall manufacture, import, sell, offer for sale, or ship devices or home electronic equipment and systems, or use devices, which fail to comply with regulations promulgated pursuant to this section.”9 Section 2.803(a) of the Rules provides that: “Except as provided elsewhere in this section, no person shall sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease), or import, ship, or distribute for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease, any radio frequency device … unless such device has been authorized by the Commission.”10 #
#
5 Notice of Apparent Liability for Forfeiture, NAL/Acct. No. 200732700004 (Enf. Bur., Tampa Office, December
12, 2006) (“NAL”).

1 47 U.S.C. § 302a(b).
2 47 C.F.R. § 2.803(a).
3 CB radio operation is confined to forty specified channels from 26.965 MHz to 27.405 MHz (carrier frequency).
4 47 C.F.R. § 95.603©.
6 47 U.S.C. § 503(b).
7 47 C.F.R. § 1.80.
8 47 U.S.C. § 503(b)(2)(D).
9 47 U.S.C. § 302a(b).
10 47 C.F.R. § 2.803(a).
# # # # # # # # # # # #
9. CB radio transceivers are subject to the equipment authorization procedure known as Certification and must be certified and properly labeled prior to being marketed or sold in the United States.11 #

Unlike CB radio transceivers, radio transmitting equipment that transmits solely on Amateur
Radio Service (“ARS”) frequencies is not subject to equipment authorization requirements prior to
manufacture or marketing. #However, some radio transmitters that transmit in a portion of the 10-meter
band of the ARS (28.000 to 29.700 MHz), just above the CB band (26.965 to 27.405 MHz), are equipped
with rotary, toggle, or pushbutton switches mounted externally on the unit, which allow operation in the
CB bands after completion of minor and trivial internal modifications to the equipment. #In an order, the
Commission adopted changes to its Rules regarding the CB type acceptance requirements by defining a
“CB Transmitter” as “a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate at a station authorized in the
CB.”12 #Section 95.655(a) of the Rules also states that no transmitter will be certificated for use in the CB
service if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in Section 95.625 of the Rules (CB
transmitter channel frequencies).13 #OET has clarified that ARS transceivers designed “such that they can
easily be modified by the users to extend the operating frequency range into the frequency bands” of the
CB are CB transmitters, because they are intended to operate on the CB bands.14 #

10. Mr. Metzger states that he sold the agents a Connex CX 3300HP ARS radio, which does not require FCC certification. #He provided test results that state the radio as manufactured operates only on ARS frequencies. #He claims if he modified the radio to operate on CB frequencies after selling it, a point which he does not concede, such action does not violate the Rules. #Mr. Metzger does not agree that he sold the agents a non-certified CB transceiver and claims the Commission cannot change its rules through changes in policy. #Mr. Metzger also claims that the Commission has not explained what an easily modifiable ARS radio is, that almost all ARS radios can be modified to operate on CB frequencies, and that it violates due process to fine it for this violation. #

11. As described in detail above, the Commission adopted Rules determining that the definition of “CB transmitter” in Section 95.603© of the Rules includes radios “intended to operate at a station authorized in the CB.” #OET and the Office of General Counsel for the Commission (“OGC”) have clarified that this definition includes ARS radios that can be easily modified to operate on CB frequencies. #OGC has stated that transmitters that “have a built-in capability to operate on CB frequencies and can easily be altered to activate that capability, such as by moving or removing a jumper
plug or cutting a single wire” fall within the definition of “CB transmitter.”15 #Section 95.603 of the Rules
states that all CB transmitters must be certificated.16 Thus, the Commission did not change its Rules
merely by “making a policy change” as Mr. Metzger alleges, and it does not violate due process to
enforce these Rules. #Moreover, it is irrelevant whether it might be legal or illegal to sell other models of non certified ARS radios. #
#
11 See 47 C.F.R. §§ 2.907, 2.927(a).
12 47 C.F.R. § 95.603&copy; [FCC 88-256], amended changing “type acceptance” to “certification” [FCC 98-58]. #See also Extended Coverage High Frequency Transceivers, Public Notice 62882, 1996 WL 242469, available at <<http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Public_Notices/1996/pnet6023.txt>> (OET, rel. May 13,
1996) (“Public Notice”).
13 47 C.F.R. § 95.655(a).
14 See Public Notice. #See also Letter from Christopher Wright, General Counsel, FCC to John Atwood, Chief
Intellectual Property Rights, US Customs Service, 14 FCC Rcd 7797 (OGC, 1999) (“OGC Letter”) (noting that ARS
transmitters that “have a built-in capability to operate on CB frequencies and can easily be altered to activate that capability, such as by moving or removing a jumper plug or cutting a single wire” fall within the definition of “CB transmitter”).
15 OGC Letter.
16 47 C.F.R. § 95.603.
Federal Communications Commission # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

12. On March 21, 2006, Mr. Metzger received a Citation for violation of Section 302(b) of the Act and Section 2.803(a)(1) of the Rules, by offering for sale various models of radios that had been tested by OET and found to be non-certified CB transceivers. #On June 22, 2006, Mr. Metzger offered for sale a Connex CX 3300HP radio, stated that it could be easily modified to operate on CB frequencies, and offered to make those modifications for a small fee. #On June 22, 2006, Mr. Metzger sold, in one financial transaction, the Connex CX 3300HP, a non-certified radio, and modifications, which allowed it to operate on CB frequencies. #Therefore, he sold to the agents a non-certified CB transceiver. #Even assuming
arguendo, that Mr. Metzger did not perform the modifications or that the sale and the modifications were performed in separate transactions, Mr. Metzger sold the agents a non-certified radio, which he explicitly
claimed could be easily modified to operate on CB frequencies, i.e. a non-certified CB transceiver. #It is
irrelevant that the radio, as manufactured, operated solely on ARS frequencies, because it could be easily
modified to operate on CB frequencies. #Mr. Metzger was specifically informed of the Commission’s
Rules defining non-certified CB transceivers in his prior Citation.

13. Finally, Mr. Metzger asserts that the modifications to the radio were not easy to make because they took 15-20 minutes to perform. We disagree. #The agents do not know exactly how long it took Mr. Metzger to make the modifications, because they left the store after Mr. Metzger was handed the radio. #They returned to the store 15-20 minutes later, so the modifications took no longer than 15-20 minutes. #However, even if the modifications took 15-20 minutes, we find that that amount of time does not mean that the modifications were difficult to implement. #Mr. Metzger took the radio to the back of the store, removed the outer casing, cut the wire or moved or removed the jumper plug, replaced the casing, and brought it back to the front of the store. #Such activities could reasonably take 15-20 minutes.

14. Based on the evidence before us, we find that Mr. Metzger apparently willfully 17 and repeatedly 18 violated Section 302(b) of the Act and Section 2.803(a) of the Rules by offering for sale non-
certified CB transmitters on March 21, and June 22, 2006.

15. We have examined Mr. Metzger’s response to the NAL pursuant to the statutory factors above, and in conjunction with the Forfeiture Policy Statement. #As a result of our review, we find no basis for cancellation of the $7,000 forfeiture proposed for this violation.

IV. ORDERING CLAUSES

16. Accordingly, IT IS ORDERED that, pursuant to Section 503(b) of the Communications #Act of 1934, as amended, and Sections 0.111, 0.311 and 1.80(f)(4) of the Commission’s Rules, Ben Metzger dba 1 Stop Communications / 1 Stop CB Shop IS LIABLE FOR A MONETARY FORFEITURE in the amount of seven thousand dollars ($7,000) for willfully and repeatedly violating Section 302(b) of the Act and 2.803(a) of the Rules.

17. Payment of the forfeiture shall be made in the manner provided for in Section 1.80 of the Rules within 30 days of the release of this Order. #If the forfeiture is not paid within the period specified, the case may be referred to the Department of Justice for collection pursuant to Section 504(a) of the 17 Section 312(f)(1) of the Act, 47 U.S.C. § 312(f)(1), which applies to violations for which forfeitures are assessed under Section 503(b) of the Act, provides that “[t]he term ‘willful,’ … means the conscious and deliberate
commission or omission of such act, irrespective of any intent to violate any provision of this Act or any rule or
regulation of the Commission authorized by this Act ….” #See Southern California Broadcasting Co., 6 FCC Rcd
4387 (1991). #18 The term “repeated,” when used with reference to the commission or omission of any act, “means the commission or omission of such act more than once or, if such commission or omission is continuous, for more than one day.” #
47 U.S.C. § 312(f)(2). Act.19 #

Payment of the forfeiture must be made by check or similar instrument, payable to the order of the
Federal Communications Commission. The payment must include the NAL/Acct. No. and FRN No.
referenced above. Payment by check or money order may be mailed to Federal Communications
Commission, P.O. Box 358340, Pittsburgh, PA 15251-8340. Payment by overnight mail may be sent
to Mellon Bank /LB 358340, 500 Ross Street, Room 1540670, Pittsburgh, PA 15251. #Payment by wire
transfer may be made to ABA Number 043000261, receiving bank Mellon Bank, and account
number 911-6106. Requests for full payment under an installment plan should be sent to: Chief, Revenue
and Receivables Group, 445 12th Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20554.20

18. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that a copy of this Order shall be sent by First Class and Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested to Ben Metzger dba 1 Stop Communications / 1 Stop CB Shop at his address of record and to his attorney, Michael C. Olson, 4400 MacArthur Boulevard, Suite 23C, Newport Beach, California 92660. #

FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
Dennis P. Carlton
Regional Director, South Central Region
Enforcement Bureau
#
19 47 U.S.C. § 504(a).
20 See 47 C.F.R. § 1.1914.

KB3LIX
03-02-2007, 08:14 PM
Sorry Bucco.......


You are B U S T E D !!!!!!!


" Another one bites the dust "

kc4ylv
03-02-2007, 09:47 PM
haha, i love how he knew he had heat on him and still modded cb's in shop


Serves him right.

ai4ep
03-02-2007, 10:52 PM
...he may have thought the FCC would never get around to fining him, so he just kept on ... !!

KC0OFZ
03-03-2007, 12:04 AM
Naughty CB shop....

KC4RAN
03-03-2007, 01:02 AM
Maybe those customers should go talk to KD5SHW... he said:

"I have a rig that can transmit on CB frequencies. If I ever sold it I wouldn't mind if the person told me they were going to use it for CB. 100W of clean RF on CB isn't going to bother anyone."

That rig still might be for sale...

kg4yus
03-03-2007, 02:42 AM
Hmm... Maybe the field agents should head over to Deland and pay that shop a visit as well.
I'm sure the FCC could use some more revenue

ai4ep
03-03-2007, 02:51 AM
...ya know...for CB operators to be the scum they are ( for the most part ), the FCC sure does pay a lot of attention to them.

I do wonder when the FCC will hit the big shots of the business ~~~ Copper Electronics and a few big time distributers ( like H&Y )...instead of playing around at the " Mom & Pop cb stores " ?

THEN all of us would know the FCC meant business about getting rid of all those illegal rigs & amps.

---------------------
But then there is the other side of the coin, like with law enforcement, the cops dont usually mess with the law - abiding folks who wear seat belts, dont speed, drive D U I, and other stuff. You only see them with the slow ones who cant go any faster and out run / out fox the cops....plus it IS hard to outrun the police radio.

I have heard stories through my life of the olden days when cops used to " shoot the tires " of the folks trying to out run them...why DID they stop that great idea ?

I also think that public hangings are a good idea ( cuts down on the repeat offender status ), and are a great deterrant to folks who think it is COOL to break the law.

That was one thing they showed on JERICO last Wednesday night, how times had changed in one area, and if you broke the law, you were hung from a rope.

simple and to the point.

nz3m
03-03-2007, 03:05 AM
Yea, Copper sell the same stuff with this little offer at the end of each description.......

"Expand, align and tune: add 30.00 "

K4KWH
03-03-2007, 04:49 AM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Mar. 02 2007,19:51)]...ya know...for CB operators to be the scum they are ( for the most part ), the FCC sure does pay a lot of attention to them.

I do wonder when the FCC will hit the big shots of the business ~~~ Copper Electronics and a few big time distributers ( like H&Y )...instead of playing around at the " Mom & Pop cb stores " ?

THEN all of us would know the FCC meant business about getting rid of all those illegal rigs & amps.

---------------------
But then there is the other side of the coin, like with law enforcement, the cops dont usually mess with the law - abiding folks who wear seat belts, dont speed, drive D U I, and other stuff. #You only see them with the slow ones who cant go any faster and out run / out fox the cops....plus it IS hard to outrun the police radio.

I have heard stories through my life of the olden days when cops used to " shoot the tires " of the folks trying to out run them...why DID they stop that great idea ?

I also think that public hangings are a good idea ( cuts down on the repeat offender status ), and are a great deterrant to folks who think it is COOL to break the law.

That was one thing they showed on #JERICO last Wednesday night, how times had changed in one area, and if you broke the law, you were hung from a rope.

simple and to the point.
They DID hit H & Y.


I wish they'd go back for the kill! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KD6NIG
03-03-2007, 02:44 PM
I'm honestly surprised they are getting him for the modding when, simply put, the sale of the radio, unmodded, isn't legal in the first place. I know thats why they nailed him, but you would think they could get him for just selling an easily modified radio-and thus it would be 2 counts instead of one.

N3ATS
03-04-2007, 02:42 AM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Mar. 02 2007,21:51)]I do wonder when the FCC will hit the big shots of the business ~~~ Copper Electronics and a few big time distributers ( like H&Y )...instead of playing around at the " Mom & Pop cb stores " ?
I wonder who rats out the Mom n' Pop stores? Do you think it's a coincidence that Copper has gotten away with it this long?

K4KWH
03-04-2007, 03:25 AM
It does make one wonder who is getting paid off!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

KC5SAS
03-04-2007, 01:54 PM
So they got one more little small time dealer. How come the FCC doesn't visit any of the well publicised "Key Down" events where particpants are running kilowatts of power into their modified CBs? We've had threads here before about upcoming events. Forum members notified the Feds and the events were held with not a FCC official in sight.
This latest action was just a drop in the bucket.

kg4yus
03-04-2007, 03:33 PM
Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Mar. 03 2007,23:25)]It does make one wonder who is getting paid off!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Maybe its simular busting all the dope users coming from the dealers qth and building a case from there

KD5SHW
03-05-2007, 12:58 AM
Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Mar. 02 2007,20:02)]Maybe those customers should go talk to KD5SHW... he said:

"I have a rig that can transmit on CB frequencies. If I ever sold it I wouldn't mind if the person told me they were going to use it for CB. 100W of clean RF on CB isn't going to bother anyone."

That rig still might be for sale...
Nah it was never for sale. I need it for HF. I like it too much to get rid of it, and I like my license to much to run it on CB. I can point them in the right direction though. My point in mentioning that is that there are plenty of legal radios that can be used on CB. My opinion on this is similar to my belief on gun control. I believe we should outlaw the behavior not the instrument.

kb2vxa
03-05-2007, 04:43 PM
Hi good buddies,

"Do you think it's a coincidence that Copper has gotten away with it this long?"

No, the Copper is worth more than a penny.

"How come the FCC doesn't visit any of the well publicised "Key Down" events where particpants are running kilowatts of power into their modified CBs?"

Have you ever tried herding cats?

"Maybe its simular busting all the dope users coming from the dealers qth and building a case from there"

Another clueless one, dopers are revenue, pushers are lures. Why kill the goose and spend money on under cover golden eggs when the goose does it for free?

Still it would be nice to see the National Guard surround a keydown and the US Marshalls and FCC storm in yelling "Get down on the ground! Put your mics behind your back! DO IT NOW! DOWN ON THE GROUND!" to the accompaniment of barking K9 units.

Bad boy bad boy... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

K4KWH
03-05-2007, 04:56 PM
They just got another one called Radioactive Radios whose forte' is something called a "Super Wack Pack" tune up. (yeah, right). #He had a whole passel of "leenyars" listed, too. #Guess FCC "wacked" him, eh? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

w2vw
03-05-2007, 05:00 PM
Analogy to illicit drug traffic works. Want to kill it? The job has to be done on the demand side. Picking on suppliers might slow things down but that drives the price up for the next supplier.
Want to end CB activity on the low end of 10? Confiscate a few 18 wheelers mis-using the RICOH statutes. The word will get around plenty fast. Just hold the trucks in an impound yard for 6 months and send the owner a big storage bill. Worked quite well on the pirate radio ships. Send a message that freebanding can ruin a business.
Why all the fixation with CB on QRZ anyway? It really makes some hams look bad.

WA7KKP
03-05-2007, 10:00 PM
Too band the financially emasculated FCC couldn't do that more often. For every shop like this who get busted, there are dozens more, mostly run out of backyard garages . . .

Gary WA7KKP

KC4RAN
03-05-2007, 11:13 PM
Quote[/b] (w2vw @ Mar. 05 2007,10:00)]# #Why all the fixation with CB on QRZ anyway? It really makes some hams look bad.
There's at least two different types of CB threads going on around here these days. One of them involved people talking about questionable activities and items, trying to legitimize it... the other talking about attempting to get some action on the questionable activities and items in an effort not to lose more spectrum (like the bottom part of 10).

Two different sides of the same coin.

ai4ep
03-06-2007, 12:12 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif so...part of the BOTTOM LINE is --- folks just do not care.

No one is forcing the violators to buy or use the illegal equipment.

It partially boils down to morals...which dont exist any more.

sad but true...

kc4ylv
03-06-2007, 04:23 AM
Quote[/b] ]It partially boils down to morals...which dont exist any more.

sad but true...

haha


"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC)."

KD6NIG
03-06-2007, 03:53 PM
Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ Mar. 05 2007,09:43)]"How come the FCC doesn't visit any of the well publicised "Key Down" events where particpants are running kilowatts of power into their modified CBs?"

Have you ever tried herding cats?
Nah, they figure with all the RF in the air, they'd rather the people doing it just go sterile, not their field agents too. It would be too big of a workmans compensation claim.

And, if the RF does sterilize, then there will be a lot less keydowners following in thier parents footsteps in about 50 years.....

n2cfj
03-06-2007, 07:26 PM
Pardon my ignorance but, what is a "Key Down" event. CB'ers don't use keys they use PTT buttons.

k5phw
03-06-2007, 10:05 PM
You figured out that much, didn't you? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KA1UNW
03-07-2007, 10:36 AM
You guys are somthing else.:D
I didn't know cb's used keys either.

But what about this: If you buy a ham rig... oh say... a TS440 and you want to use it on 60 mtrs, which will work, the 40m filter can be used... you have to 'snip some wires' that resets the rig to do all freqs, including cb.
So, how can such a rig be sold that can do that without being viewed the same way as that concord radio was viewed?
Both radios were being sold as ARS rigs. Both can be 'modified easily' to land on cb.

Isn't there now going to be a risk that all ham rigs for HF will 'have to be' viewed as potentetial cb's?

Or will the mfgs fix it so between 24.990 and 28.000 the rig will not even have programming to operate no matter which wires you snip?

N3ATS
03-07-2007, 01:11 PM
Quote[/b] (KA1UNW @ Mar. 07 2007,05:36)]You guys are somthing else.:D
I didn't know cb's used keys either.

But what about this: If you buy a ham rig... oh say... a TS440 and you want to use it on 60 mtrs, which will work, the 40m filter can be used... you have to 'snip some wires' that resets the rig to do all freqs, including cb.
So, how can such a rig be sold that can do that without being viewed the same way as that concord radio was viewed?
Both radios were being sold as ARS rigs. Both can be 'modified easily' to land on cb.

Isn't there now going to be a risk that all ham rigs for HF will 'have to be' viewed as potentetial cb's?

Or will the mfgs fix it so between 24.990 and 28.000 the rig will not even have programming to operate no matter which wires you snip?
I've been asking the same question for years. Most ham rigs are even EASIER to convert to CB than the "export" stuff is.

It might have something to do with money, as most stuff like this usually does.

KA1UNW
03-07-2007, 02:50 PM
No No.. I mean if they are -now- calling a new rig that can be 'modified easily' to send on cb's, a cb and since ham rigs are not registered for use there, they would be viewed as illegal rigs, that is going to make a new headache. Someone will have to decide what it was meant for and by what guidelines will they go by?

All they have done is complicate things further.

BUT...if a rig meant for use on only the ham bands is set up so it cannot land on cb's ... say any freq from 24990 -- 28000, no matter what wires get snipped, that would be a way to avoid the headache.
This could be done by how the cpu in the rig is programmed.

These cb-disguised-as-ham things don't have a cpu, just some pll and decoder chip with some of the freqs disabled by that jumper wire.
(some have modified those other older ones that are on cb but have hidden ham freqs in them, to be permanently on 10m for licensed ham use, by doing just that: SNIP! %<--- now ham)

But if the cpu has programming to not use 25991---27999 that will let the new rule the fcc goes by, to tell if its ham or cb, work just the way it now is.
It'd be easy to change the pgm for chips yet to be designed so they would comply with the rules.

Bottom line becomes this:

Any new radio that is labled as a ham rig, is indeed such if it -cannot- cover 24991---27999.
Any new rig that covers ... what is it? 26990--27390? and is otherwise fcc approved, is a cb.
Any new rig that can cover 24991---27999 by any method (turn dial, snip wire, etc)that is not covered by some other fcc rule, is just plain illegal.
All older rigs if sold, would ... well there we have a problem.

ai4ep
03-07-2007, 03:59 PM
a lot of folks dont mind it is the modifications users are some of their buddies / friends / pals...but when it is done by folks from the " OTHER SIDE OF TOWN ", then all heck breaks loose ... !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

n2cfj
03-07-2007, 04:31 PM
Technically a ham can home brew a rig since ham equip does not have to have approval, BUT equip designed for use other than by hams must be approved. Virtually any rig that can transmit on 10 meters can be altered to transmit on 11 meters. Some are just easier than others.
When I first got my FT101ZD in the 70's a client who was an avid CBer, (this was at the peak of the sunspot cycle), told me that this was the rig of choice for illegals since the mod to 11 meters was so easy.

KC4RAN
03-07-2007, 10:31 PM
Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Mar. 07 2007,09:31)]Technically a ham can home brew a rig since ham equip does not have to have approval, BUT equip designed for use other than by hams must be approved. #Virtually any rig that can transmit on 10 meters can be altered to transmit on 11 meters. #Some are just easier than others.
When I first got my FT101ZD in the 70's a client who was an avid CBer, (this was at the peak of the sunspot cycle), told me that this was the rig of choice for illegals since the mod to 11 meters was so easy.
Yes, we can homebrew rigs... but if I'm not mistaken the letter of the law still says that you have to use a certified device on CB, even if you're a ham.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

N2RJ
03-07-2007, 10:34 PM
Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Mar. 06 2007,10:53)]Quote[/b] (kb2vxa @ Mar. 05 2007,09:43)]"How come the FCC doesn't visit any of the well publicised "Key Down" events where particpants are running kilowatts of power into their modified CBs?"

Have you ever tried herding cats?
Nah, they figure with all the RF in the air, they'd rather the people doing it just go sterile, not their field agents too. It would be too big of a workmans compensation claim.

And, if the RF does sterilize, then there will be a lot less keydowners following in thier parents footsteps in about 50 years.....
Eh? How will they go sterile? I know people who work at multikilowatt broadcast facilities and they have kids. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

N2RJ
03-07-2007, 10:35 PM
Quote[/b] (KC4RAN @ Mar. 07 2007,17:31)]Quote[/b] (n2cfj @ Mar. 07 2007,09:31)]Technically a ham can home brew a rig since ham equip does not have to have approval, BUT equip designed for use other than by hams must be approved. Virtually any rig that can transmit on 10 meters can be altered to transmit on 11 meters. Some are just easier than others.
When I first got my FT101ZD in the 70's a client who was an avid CBer, (this was at the peak of the sunspot cycle), told me that this was the rig of choice for illegals since the mod to 11 meters was so easy.
Yes, we can homebrew rigs... but if I'm not mistaken the letter of the law still says that you have to use a certified device on CB, even if you're a ham.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty much correct.

The ability to use homebrew equipment on air only applies to the amateur service and amateur frequencies...

KB3LIX
03-08-2007, 12:36 AM
A CB "key Down" is a competition between mobile CB setups to see who has the strongest signal.
Some of these jokers CLAIM to be running several kilowatts from their mobile setups.
I doubt their claims, but would like to see some of the mobile installations, right before Sir Riley de Hollingsworth runs the whole thing radio, amplifier (s) and car/truck/bus/motorhome/tractor-trailer or whatever into the CRUSHER !!!!

K4KWH
03-08-2007, 01:10 AM
Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ Mar. 07 2007,06:11)]Quote[/b] (KA1UNW @ Mar. 07 2007,05:36)]You guys are somthing else.:D
I didn't know cb's used keys either.

But what about this: If you buy a ham rig... oh say... a TS440 and you want to use it on 60 mtrs, which will work, the 40m filter can be used... you have to 'snip some wires' that resets the rig to do all freqs, including cb.
So, how can such a rig be sold that can do that without being viewed the same way as that concord radio was viewed?
Both radios were being sold as ARS rigs. Both can be 'modified easily' to land on cb.

Isn't there now going to be a risk that all ham rigs for HF will 'have to be' viewed as potentetial cb's?

Or will the mfgs fix it so between 24.990 and 28.000 the rig will not even have programming to operate no matter which wires you snip?
I've been asking the same question for years. #Most ham rigs are even EASIER to convert to CB than the "export" stuff is.

It might have something to do with money, as most stuff like this usually does.

It's simple! #They just list each transceiver to be excluded from sale by NAME. #End of story! FCC can, and does, exclude them this way by listing each transceiver specifically by name. #They (and the manufacturers) know that these things are thinly disguised "CB" radios trying to crash the party in the clothing of a "ham" radio. It doesn't work. #REAL Amateur radio do NOT have "channels", they do not have "bands" in order to cover ONE band such as the 10 Meter band, and REAL Amateur radios do not have
chrome faces, echo and "roger beep". IOW, they LOOK, #ACT, and WORK like a CB radio. #So FCC simply placed them on a list of disapproved radios to preclude their sale in the US. No matter WHAT they try to look like (they look like a CB to APPEAL to the CB market, they work like a CB radio with..........."LOOK MAW! #HIT'S GOT 6 BANDS OF THEM CHANNELS, 2 HUNNERT AN' 40 OF 'EM! #HIT'S GOT 300 of them 'AIR BIRD WATTS (claimed by one mfr) THAR! GRE'T DAY 'LIVE THAR!" And it has stupid beeps and squeaks and infantile "noise toys". Your REAL Amateur radio has none of these. #FCC doesn't want to punish the good with the bad, so it's not likely they will cause our radios to be banned from transmitting in the "freeband" . #And we really shouldn't WANT them to be. #Hams are not the only people who legally #use HF radios on those frequencies between 24 and 28 MHZ. #All that would do is punish the innocent and cause the cost of equipment to rise dramatically.

73

KA1UNW
03-08-2007, 01:22 AM
Getting damage from RF depends on frequency. The damage from 1000 watts on 3mc would be less than the damage from 1000 watts on 30mc which is less than the damage from 1000 watts on 300mc.
Being in a van that was about 18.2 ft long, sitting at one end? I think that would be most excellent for em when someone like that transmits a lot.
Have you noticed how some talk like they are on drugs? Those are the ones who are 'well done'.
Except for the noise they make that reaches 10 & 12 meters [1] it'd be nice to just let them 'key down' all they like and remove themselves from the gene pool.
I am told they have several alternators and batteries in the car; batteries right by the amplifiers and the amps have like 32 100w pep transistors.
The components for these are sold at 'RF Parts'.
Much is adaptable to ham use.

By the way, we need not dial all the way down to 27mc to hear such people. Some now live and wallow on up here on 75m.

[1] I have heard noises from a few of those 'people' as low as 21.05mc. If I am hearing him(it?) there, that means not all of his power is on the frequency he is trying to send on. You would think that would irk him, since he might lose this 'contest' they have.

KC0NBW
03-08-2007, 02:10 AM
as long as it is rf output, they don't care about what frequency it is on !

ai4ep
03-08-2007, 02:15 AM
question --- have any of you BEEN ( in person ) to a " keydown " or is all that I am reading mere heresay / gossip / rumors ?

In simple terms ---can you prove what you are posting ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

KC0NBW
03-08-2007, 02:19 AM
i would not deliberately want to be within a hundred miles of one of them, but i have heard the trash put out by their rigs on the air ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

kc4ylv
03-08-2007, 03:06 AM
There are pictures, sites and Youtube videos. Search for 'keydown.'

I'm not exaggerating, they have to film from 75 feet away because any closer and it disables any electronic device in range. It's like a low-grade EMP. You can seriously see the RF waves on the video the moment they key down, from 50-75 feet away.

Just imagine the RF field strengths if a 27 mhz signal can do that to a tiny camcorder at 20 yards.


It's really gross, but eh.

w3bny
03-08-2007, 01:58 PM
Even better... Here is a good example! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuMz-qG-Q84&mode=related&search=) Listener discretion HIGHLY advised! (read...HEADPHONES!!)

ai4ep
03-08-2007, 02:32 PM
CB JOKE TIME

---question--- Any one know why there are 40 cb channels ?


---answer--- because 40 is the highest iq of any of the operators.


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif