Harmful Interference?????

[kg4kww]

QUANTICO, Virginia (AP) -- For many suburbanites, life without garage door openers is unimaginable.

But neighbors of the Marine base here have been reduced to just that after a strong radio signal coming from the facility began neutralizing remote-control openers.

Residents have had to spend hundreds of dollars on new systems.

"I feel there should be some kind of compensation," said Queen Carroll, who is in her early 70s and was forced to buy a new receiver and remote. "I am a struggling widow, if you will, and I praise the Lord I'm still here, but I am on a budget. When things like this come up totally unexpected, it is very upsetting."

Repair shops started getting a flurry of calls when the base began using the frequency in late December.

Harmful Interference (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/26/signal.marines.ap/index.html)

[n2ize]

As the FCC says, such units MUST accept interference from licensed radio services. I presume the military usage is licensed and the garage door openers are not. When you buy the device you accept the reality that it may be interfered with by licensed services. In this case it appears the military is licensed so... hate to say it but... tough on the garage door openers. The customers need to hash it out with the garage door manufacturers.

I don't operate my ham radio much lately. My neighbor buys some unlicensed device that uses 75 meters. Suddenly I swing back into action on 3885kc. Well, I'm licensed. The unlicensed device must accept the interference I give to it.

[KD5SHW]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 27 2007,10:52)]"I feel there should be some kind of compensation," said Queen Carroll, who is in her early 70s and was forced to buy a new receiver and remote. "I am a struggling widow, if you will, and I praise the Lord I'm still here, but I am on a budget. When things like this come up totally unexpected, it is very upsetting."
Obvious issues about accepting interference aside I thought the quote from the woman was an interesting point about our psychological dependence on technology. A step back from the situation reveals that nobody "needs" an automatic garage door opener. Don't tell the lady they quoted that. She expects compensation like an automatic garage opener is a god given right. Some might point out that maybe she might not be able to lift the door. Remember she already has the motor. Surely the motor isn't affected by RF interference. She might have to park, walk inside to flip the switch, drive inside, and flip the switch again.

Imagine the chaos if all the cell phones in the country stopped working. >_>

[WA3KYY]

What's a garage http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (KD5SHW @ Feb. 27 2007,09:49)]Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 27 2007,10:52)]"I feel there should be some kind of compensation," said Queen Carroll, who is in her early 70s and was forced to buy a new receiver and remote. "I am a struggling widow, if you will, and I praise the Lord I'm still here, but I am on a budget. When things like this come up totally unexpected, it is very upsetting."
Obvious issues about accepting interference aside I thought the quote from the woman was an interesting point about our psychological dependence on technology. #A step back from the situation reveals that nobody "needs" an automatic garage door opener. #Don't tell the lady they quoted that. #She expects compensation like an automatic garage opener is a god given right. #Some might point out that maybe she might not be able to lift the door. #Remember she already has the motor. #Surely the motor isn't affected by RF interference. #She might have to park, walk inside to flip the switch, drive inside, and flip the switch again.

Imagine the chaos if all the cell phones in the country stopped working. >_>
People expect things to work and they expect them to work flawlessly. When I was in networking people demanded flawless wireless service. Things like interference, blocked signals, range, etc. were dismissed as excuses. The bottom line was, "I want it, I want it all, I want it NOW I want it to work NOW and ALWAYS and, if you can]t deliver the flawless performance I want I'll call someone else who can".

Yes, indeed, the customer buys these gadgets, has no knowledge of RF and operating parameters but demands perfect performance. I guess you can say we have become somewhat spoiled.

[ne6ao]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Feb. 27 2007,10:14)]Quote[/b] (KD5SHW @ Feb. 27 2007,09:49)]Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 27 2007,10:52)]"I feel there should be some kind of compensation," said Queen Carroll, who is in her early 70s and was forced to buy a new receiver and remote. "I am a struggling widow, if you will, and I praise the Lord I'm still here, but I am on a budget. When things like this come up totally unexpected, it is very upsetting."
Obvious issues about accepting interference aside I thought the quote from the woman was an interesting point about our psychological dependence on technology. #A step back from the situation reveals that nobody "needs" an automatic garage door opener. #Don't tell the lady they quoted that. #She expects compensation like an automatic garage opener is a god given right. #Some might point out that maybe she might not be able to lift the door. #Remember she already has the motor. #Surely the motor isn't affected by RF interference. #She might have to park, walk inside to flip the switch, drive inside, and flip the switch again.

Imagine the chaos if all the cell phones in the country stopped working. >_>
People expect things to work and they expect them to work flawlessly. When I was in networking people demanded #flawless wireless service. #Things like interference, blocked signals, range, etc. were dismissed as excuses. The bottom line was, "I want it, I want it all, I want it NOW I want it to work NOW and ALWAYS and, if you can]t deliver the flawless performance I want I'll call someone else who can".

Yes, indeed, the customer buys these gadgets, has no knowledge of RF and operating parameters but demands perfect performance. I guess you can say we have become somewhat spoiled.
I agree with most of this,but using filters and digital encoding will work .The company doesnt want to spend the money needed but will if they want to stay in business
I'd love to know what freqs are being used .The 400 mhz band has room .So does 800 mhz.I would think the remote being a small unit the feq would be uhf or above.

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (ne6ao @ Feb. 27 2007,12:28)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Feb. 27 2007,10:14)]Quote[/b] (KD5SHW @ Feb. 27 2007,09:49)]Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ Feb. 27 2007,10:52)]"I feel there should be some kind of compensation," said Queen Carroll, who is in her early 70s and was forced to buy a new receiver and remote. "I am a struggling widow, if you will, and I praise the Lord I'm still here, but I am on a budget. When things like this come up totally unexpected, it is very upsetting."
Obvious issues about accepting interference aside I thought the quote from the woman was an interesting point about our psychological dependence on technology. #A step back from the situation reveals that nobody "needs" an automatic garage door opener. #Don't tell the lady they quoted that. #She expects compensation like an automatic garage opener is a god given right. #Some might point out that maybe she might not be able to lift the door. #Remember she already has the motor. #Surely the motor isn't affected by RF interference. #She might have to park, walk inside to flip the switch, drive inside, and flip the switch again.

Imagine the chaos if all the cell phones in the country stopped working. >_>
People expect things to work and they expect them to work flawlessly. When I was in networking people demanded #flawless wireless service. #Things like interference, blocked signals, range, etc. were dismissed as excuses. The bottom line was, "I want it, I want it all, I want it NOW I want it to work NOW and ALWAYS and, if you can]t deliver the flawless performance I want I'll call someone else who can".

Yes, indeed, the customer buys these gadgets, has no knowledge of RF and operating parameters but demands perfect performance. I guess you can say we have become somewhat spoiled.
I agree with most of this,but using filters and digital encoding will work .The company doesnt want to spend the money needed but will if they want to stay in business
I'd love to know what freqs are being used .The 400 mhz band has room .So does 800 mhz.I would think the remote being a small unit the feq would be uhf or above.
They operate just outside of the 70cm band. Those regions, like our amateur band, are primary government radiopositioning. It is likely a new radar was fired up at Quantico.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (KD5SHW @ Feb. 27 2007,16:49)]Imagine the chaos if all the cell phones in the country stopped working. >_>
Now That brought a smile to my face.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K3XR]

Does not the military have priority on all frequencies??

[ne6ao]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Feb. 27 2007,12:27)]Quote[/b] (KD5SHW @ Feb. 27 2007,16:49)]Imagine the chaos if all the cell phones in the country stopped working. >_>
Now That brought a smile to my face.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
yeah its a wonder how we lived before ,given that I once sat at a red light and as I watched the light turn ,the first 7or 8 cars all were on a cell phone as they passed me.
But for all the news abt cell phones and accidents,so far not too many have had problems.The states are passing the laws to restrict using them while driving.We had a recent accident on the fwy during morning rush hour.He said he dropped it ,but didnt have the "self control"in my opinion to wait till it was safe to get it.There are thousands of us hams who drive every day with ham equipt but rarley if ever is there a accident.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

This has been posted over and over again.
The freq's in question are around 290 MHz to 310 MHz.
The very early ones worked with nothing but a modulated carrier.
I would play with the radio in the aircraft when returning to base in San Antonio, crank in that frequency range and hum or whistle and watch all the garage doors open.
The solution to this is to create a national standard for the things and put them all on a limited number of freq's.
This is one place where digital would be perfect.
Having a national standard would mean a universal key fob could be created that would work the car alarm as well as the garage door.
Interlocks for safety would need to be mandatory if the garage door were on a key fob.

[K8MHZ]

Quote[/b] ]"I feel there should be some kind of compensation," said Queen Carroll, who is in her early 70s and was forced to buy a new receiver and remote.

I would think that as far as the Marines go, the fact that all gave some and some gave all should be considered to be at least a teensy weensy contribution. #Never mind the fact that she has been able to spend over 7 decades living in a free country because of them.

Some people....

[K8MHZ]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Feb. 27 2007,07:44)]Does not the military have priority on all frequencies??
Yes, unless you have more guns than they do. #The one's with the most guns are controlled by the ones with the most gold and they, my friends, have priority over EVERYTHING.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Feb. 27 2007,08:55)]What's a garage http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Think of a very, very messy hamshack, and then put a car in it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kg4kww]

seems to me that garage door opener radios are secondary users on this band.

[K5FH]

About 25 years ago a govt. facility I worked at had a large crane that could be operated either by local or remote control. #The remote control was an old AM-analog system (similar to the old systems used for radio-controlled model aircraft) that, if it worked at all, didn't work well enough to be reliable because of RFI problems. #The crane was eventually retrofitted to an FM-digital system and that was the end of the reliability and RFI problems.

When a new building was built a few years later the overhead cranes had no provision for local control, only remotes that used an FM-digital system. #Local control was thought unnecessary due to the well-demonstrated reliability of the digital system.

But these were top-of-the-line systems (read: expensive). #Consumer stuff is designed to be mass produced cheaply and a lot of features are left out.

I would rather pay a few bucks more and not have to worry about RFI accidentally slamming my garage door on my car.

[K9QJ]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 27 2007,16:22)]Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Feb. 27 2007,08:55)]What's a garage http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Think of a very, very messy hamshack, and then put a car in it. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
That sounds like my boat. I refer to it as " A hole in the water that you stick endless amounts of money into."

[k3roj]

The remote temperature transmitters on 433 MHz is a big problem with 432 weak signal operators since when they transmit date every few seconds it sends out sharp pulses that does bother 432 MHz.

[ka5s]

Quote[/b] (K5FH @ Feb. 28 2007,01:13)]About 25 years ago a govt. facility I worked at had a large crane that could be operated either by local or remote control. #The remote control was an old AM-analog system (similar to the old systems used for radio-controlled model aircraft) that, if it worked at all, didn't work well enough to be reliable because of RFI problems. #The crane was eventually retrofitted to an FM-digital system and that was the end of the reliability and RFI problems.
Some years ago, maybe 1978, I was the de-facto Radio Interference NCO at a very large Army installation in Texas. One day I got a call from our Special Weapons repair folks DEMANDING I stop interference to their test equipment. What frequency, I asked, did they use? 27.5 MHz! was the answer.

After I got done laughing, I explained about the hordes who might be using "channel 50," and how skip meant that at any hour of the day stations thousands of miles away were booming in. That did not make the caller happy; he told me it was going to cost the Army millions to replace the radio links.

Look over yer shoulder for me, driver? I 'm at (BOOOOOOOOOOM!) ...

For those not in the know, Special Weapons can make the ground glow in the dark.


Cortland
KA5S