I surrender

[wa8rti]

Over a number of posts I have coaxed,cajoled, practically begged K3XR to answer questions about his position on whatever matter was at issue. The response has been stoney silence or more links to other people's opinions. #I hereby recognize that getting an answer is an impossible task. I will henceforth refrain from trying to get K3XR to explain the 'why' of his far right positions and just accept the fact that it is because it is and that #there is perhaps no explaining the 'why'. There is something to be said for blind loyality to a cause. This is the official waving of the white flag. I admit defeat!!! Should I slip up and ask him a question again, remind me that I shouldn't be doing that!

[K2WH]

Quote[/b] (wa8rti @ Feb. 26 2007,02:34)]Over a number of posts I have coaxed,cajoled, practically begged K3XR to answer questions about his position on whatever matter was at issue. The response has been stoney silence or more links to other people's opinions. #I hereby recognize that getting an answer is an impossible task. I will henceforth refrain from trying to get K3XR to explain the 'why' of his far right positions and just accept the fact that it is because it is and that #there is perhaps no explaining the 'why'. There is something to be said for blind loyality to a cause. This is the official waving of the white flag. I admit defeat!!! Should I slip up and ask him a question again, remind me that I shouldn't be doing that!
You must be living in a fantasy world. #K3XR or anybody on this site is not required to explain themselves or their opinions. #They are what they are. #Come on, this is QRZ.COM for Christs sake its not a college debating team.

But, it is obvious XR has really gotten to you and for that he should be congratulated. #XR's postings are simply a method of countering yours and others extreme left wing opinions and postings. #Few right wing posters have challenged source material posted here by the left but the left is always asking for paragraph and verse references and when supplied, it is dismissed as so much right wing hogwash and right wing lies and if a news outlet, its a right wing rag unworthy of consideration. #So why should he even bother to oblige rabid left wing hit men waiting in the wings to tear him limb from limb. #The ability or inability to debate does not define a persons intelligence or their passion.

We believe in truthfull discourse and have no reason to suspect postings as fraudulent. Your posting reveals a total lack of understanding and acceptance of differing opinions because you use the phrase "Blind loyalty". #We on the right see you exactly the same way - Blind towards your loyalties.

Therefore, if you think QRZ is the real world, then you need to get out more. #As of this posting, there about 6, count them 6 people hanging out here. #Its not like the entire digital world is hanging on anything anybody says here.

K2WH

[ad4mg]

Quote[/b] ]'2WH: I do not believe any right wing posters have ever challenged source material posted here by the left. We believe in truthfull discourse and have no reason to suspect postings as fraudulent.
I see the deep breathing exercises I suggested worked well for you. You're not so uptight today.

However, I now believe you are hyperventilating, and have become delirious as a result. Try lowering the number of breaths taken every minute. Hopefully, you will find that "sweet spot" that will assist you in obtaining solid footing on middle ground.

Have a marvelous day, sir. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif


EDIT: I gotta admit I agree with some of what '2WH says ... ol' Danny sure "gotcha" pretty good.

Relax, it's all in good fun. Seldom do we see anyone really melt down. It's more like school kids poking each other in the rib cage. And a lot of the madness is really good, healthy debate. Few harbor ill feelings from what goes on here. Of course, we do keep the moderators busy. And if all of this has a fault, it's that we never think of them and cut them any slack.

73,
Luke

[KF0RT]

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000AOV4J.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

73, Rob

[k0ews]

Quote[/b] ]There is something to be said for blind loyality to a cause. This is the official waving of the white flag. I admit defeat!!! Should I slip up and ask him a question again, remind me that I shouldn't be doing that!

Yeah, you shouldn't be doing that. Here's the reason he won't respond. He feels he doesn't need to. The guy believes what he believes and has a right to it. Without justification, ridicule, or anything else. I thought that Democrats were the party of diversity and tolerance? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

That goes for BOTH SIDES by the way. Live and let live. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them crazy, stupid, misinformed or anything else. It certainly doesn't make them blind. It makes them different, period.
This is one of the reasons I don't hang out on here too much anymore. I do hang out occasionally aT&O and Q&A. At least in those forums the code debate is about the only thing of contention, and at least the topics there are related to ham radio, which is my hobby.
Anyway, if K3XR took his ball and went home, you will just have to find something else to do, I guess.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Feb. 26 2007,09:34)]I thought that Democrats were the party of diversity and tolerance?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] ]Come on, this is QRZ.COM for Christs sake its not a college debating team.

But, it is obvious XR has really gotten to you and for that he should be congratulated. Most of us on the left pity Daniel and his inability to respond. I truly hope he gets better. There are many ideas to be exchanged. Maybe you say he should be congratulated for not allowing himself to see the same subject in a different light, but I see no reason to congratulate him for remaining a deaf mute when opportunity is knocking.

notice RTI had not attempted to attack or belittle 3XR for his postings as those on the left receive when we post. 3XR constantly posts topics that specifically state inflammatory attacks on other Americans. But he refuses to defend these posts.

When we can debate issues, we become better people.

[nx6d]

I put Dan in the category of someone who is probably a good guy personally, just completely full of (blank) when it comes to politics.

I have a number of friends like that, in particular one who trashes me for being a "liberal" on the local repeater and we're friends, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to XR's posting propaganda.

Besides, you don't have a whole lot of cred if you're using NewsMax or frontpagemag.org as a source anyway...

Dave NX6D
Sonoma County, CA

[K2WH]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Feb. 26 2007,05:18)]I put Dan in the category of someone who is probably a good guy personally, just completely full of (blank) when it comes to politics.

I have a number of friends like that, in particular one who trashes me for being a "liberal" on the local repeater and we're friends, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to XR's posting propaganda.

Besides, you don't have a whole lot of cred if you're using NewsMax or frontpagemag.org as a source anyway...

Dave NX6D
Sonoma County, CA
This is a validating response, and I rest my case.

K2WH

[KI4SQT]

Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Feb. 25 2007,11:18)]I put Dan in the category of someone who is probably a good guy personally, just completely full of (blank) when it comes to politics.

I have a number of friends like that, in particular one who trashes me for being a "liberal" on the local repeater and we're friends, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to XR's posting propaganda.

Besides, you don't have a whole lot of cred if you're using NewsMax or frontpagemag.org as a source anyway...

Dave NX6D
Sonoma County, CA
The Libs have no credibility either...Continous pandering to their minority voting base...Yes...Minority voting base...is no better than the ultra conservatives pandering to their extreme religious voting base...
There is in fact happiness...and it is not left or right.

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (KI4SQT @ Feb. 26 2007,03:33)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Feb. 25 2007,11:18)]I put Dan in the category of someone who is probably a good guy personally, just completely full of (blank) when it comes to politics.

I have a number of friends like that, in particular one who trashes me for being a "liberal" on the local repeater and we're friends, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to XR's posting propaganda.

Besides, you don't have a whole lot of cred if you're using NewsMax or frontpagemag.org as a source anyway...

Dave NX6D
Sonoma County, CA
The Libs have no credibility either...Continous pandering to their minority voting base...Yes...Minority voting base...is no better than the ultra conservatives pandering to their extreme religious voting base...
There is in fact happiness...and it is not left or right.
Interesting point.

Explain yourself.

[k0ews]

Quote[/b] (n9xr @ Feb. 26 2007,11:37)]Quote[/b] (KI4SQT @ Feb. 26 2007,03:33)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Feb. 25 2007,11:18)]I put Dan in the category of someone who is probably a good guy personally, just completely full of (blank) when it comes to politics.

I have a number of friends like that, in particular one who trashes me for being a "liberal" on the local repeater and we're friends, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to XR's posting propaganda.

Besides, you don't have a whole lot of cred if you're using NewsMax or frontpagemag.org as a source anyway...

Dave NX6D
Sonoma County, CA
The Libs have no credibility either...Continous pandering to their minority voting base...Yes...Minority voting base...is no better than the ultra conservatives pandering to their extreme religious voting base...
There is in fact happiness...and it is not left or right.
Interesting point.

Explain yourself.
I think he means that most Liberals pander to minorities to get votes. I would probably go along with that, as given the major voting trends of the last 40 years, the minority groups in this country tend to vote Democrat. Many Liberal politicians run on the promises of increasing benefits to the minorities through welfare, affirmative action, increased social security benefits, and the like. Most Liberals tend to believe that more government can solve a lot of social ills in society, so the tend to push for more government programs. In many cases, the recipients of these government programs are indeed minorities.
I believe that the term "pandering" which is the verb form of "pander" which Webster defines as "to provide gratification for others' desires" would probably be accurate in the Liberal platform of many elections.
At the same time, the Republicans do indeed pander to the religious conservative movement in this country. They run on restriction of abortion, they run on gay marriage vs. civil unions, they run on school prayer, and things of that nature, which also pander to a crowd who's interest is that those things become law. That is the dilemma currently facing the Republican party. Some of their most attractive, and most electable candidates are not social conservatives...namely Gulianni, McCain, and Romney. The question is; will those social conservatives embrace these candidates? McCain has changed his position to reflect a more social conservative bent, but I'm sure the rank and file of the Christian coalition question his sincerity.

Of the points mentioned, I think I would agree. I feel that the answer must lie somewhere in the middle. Some social programs are great ideas. Some of them are a waste of money and national resources. Some ideas of the conservatives are good ideas as well, but some are not. As an Independent voter, I get called a lot of names; fence sitter, wishy-washy, etc., but that is simply not the case. My beliefs are very consistent, and happen to be much more issue oriented. To pin me down, you have to ask me about each individual issue, and not about an ideology. I'm one of the 40 percent of Americans that need to be sold in every election. Some of the true believers that I see would never get caught dead voting for the opposite party. I can vote for a candidate in either party if they line up with my beliefs.

[W2ILP]

One thing about me, W2ILP, is that I always answer questions about my position on any subject...even when I'm not absolutely certain that I have the correct opinion. BUT...I must admit that sometimes I trip myself up and don't agree with myself.

What I can't stand is when I tell of a hypothetical case that disproves someone's opinion (by making what is called a "strawman") then someone reads only a part of my post and debates me saying that my hypothetical "strawman" was W2ILP's dumb opinion.

I am pretty critical. I don't see any political candidate from any party that even remotely fits the kind of person who should be a future U.S. president. People tend to vote for names, hand shakes and ethnic pandering...but most really can't judge most candidates until their idols get a chance to have the power to do good or bad. Nobody can please everyone...but I see candidates who aren't even trying to please everyone...They are just pandering to the groups who they want to win away from their opponents. They tell them what they want to hear...but words are cheap and action that involves war, defense, economic stability, ethical policy and national welfare require money commitments and taxes and investment and wealth distribution that few care to detail...Nope... They leave the serious thinking up to the lousy lobbyists who consult with them. Lobbyists never represent the real needs of the majority Americans...but politicians always say that politicians do. I dont know if this can ever change...but it is part of the democratic process...and representation of the masses is not as democratic as it could be if the masses were more informed. I guess they may never be ...because most can't even figure out their own income tax or pass a 5 wpm CW exam.

w2ilp (Ignoring Laughing Politicians)...and not surrendering to their phony smiles....without Indian reservations.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Feb. 26 2007,13:55)]What I can't stand is when I tell of a hypothetical case that disproves someone's opinion (by making what is called a "strawman") then someone reads only a part of my post and debates me saying that my hypothetical "strawman" was W2ILP's dumb opinion.
You get that a lot.

[wa8rti]

Realize please that I have been trying understand the man's position on various posting. I had posed questions in hopes of getting more of his personnal insight than that offered by #endless links. The questions were an attempt to understand his seemingly far right stances-which I have a problem fathoming some times (actually most of the time). #Got to me- perhaps. I have a habit of only getting angry when someone will not enter into a reasonable dialogue. Did he owe me answers -no- but it would have been nice.

[k0ews]

Quote[/b] ]I am pretty critical. I don't see any political candidate from any party that even remotely fits the kind of person who should be a future U.S. president. People tend to vote for names, hand shakes and ethnic pandering...but most really can't judge most candidates until their idols get a chance to have the power to do good or bad. Nobody can please everyone...but I see candidates who aren't even trying to please everyone...They are just pandering to the groups who they want to win away from their opponents. They tell them what they want to hear...but words are cheap and action that involves war, defense, economic stability, ethical policy and national welfare require money commitments and taxes and investment and wealth distribution that few care to detail...Nope... They leave the serious thinking up to the lousy lobbyists who consult with them. Lobbyists never represent the real needs of the majority Americans...but politicians always say that politicians do. I dont know if this can ever change...but it is part of the democratic process...and representation of the masses is not as democratic as it could be if the masses were more informed. I guess they may never be ...because most can't even figure out their own income tax or pass a 5 wpm CW exam.


You make some interesting points. I enjoy your insight. Sometimes I agree with you, and sometimes, I don't, but it's appreciated. I don't know what your occupation is, but I'd not be at all surprised if you were some sort of engineer.
Regarding your statement, I agree with a lot of it. Americans get the Government that we deserve. We've become rather aloof of anything political in society, except right around election time. How many of us pay attention to issues of the day all of the time? You want an example? We have the first few days of a surge in Iraq, and hearings on Scooter Libby, along with a new Democratically controlled Congress, and what dominates the news? Anna Nicole Smith. When she died, it was like a head of state had died. Anyway, my point is that voter apathy and voter ignorance just opens the door to lobbyists and their ilk. If you ever wanted to scare the living **** out of a politician, just tell him that voter turnout will be over 90 percent. Then, it's not about just getting out the vote; they have to act on the issues and be accountable to all of the people, other than just getting their own ones that agree with them to show up on election day. Voter turnout is the current strategy. Get the voters to the polls. Don't ever actually solve a problem or do anything new, just say, "Hey, I'm not the other guy from the other party. Make sure you vote!" That's pretty much what politics has become in the last few years, and it's too bad. We've grown up in some of the most prosperous times in history with the greatest opportunities. We've become spoiled and lazy, and the only time we will ever wake up is when we face something that forces us to take a hard look at our leaders.

[KI4SQT]

Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Feb. 25 2007,16:29)]Quote[/b] (n9xr @ Feb. 26 2007,11:37)]Quote[/b] (KI4SQT @ Feb. 26 2007,03:33)]Quote[/b] (nx6d @ Feb. 25 2007,11:18)]I put Dan in the category of someone who is probably a good guy personally, just completely full of (blank) when it comes to politics.

I have a number of friends like that, in particular one who trashes me for being a "liberal" on the local repeater and we're friends, so I don't pay a whole lot of attention to XR's posting propaganda.

Besides, you don't have a whole lot of cred if you're using NewsMax or frontpagemag.org as a source anyway...

Dave NX6D
Sonoma County, CA
The Libs have no credibility either...Continous pandering to their minority voting base...Yes...Minority voting base...is no better than the ultra conservatives pandering to their extreme religious voting base...
There is in fact happiness...and it is not left or right.
Interesting point.

Explain yourself.
I think he means that most Liberals pander to minorities to get votes. #I would probably go along with that, as given the major voting trends of the last 40 years, the minority groups in this country tend to vote Democrat. #Many Liberal politicians run on the promises of increasing benefits to the minorities through welfare, affirmative action, increased social security benefits, and the like. #Most Liberals tend to believe that more government can solve a lot of social ills in society, so the tend to push for more government programs. #In many cases, the recipients of these government programs are indeed minorities. #
I believe that the term "pandering" which is the verb form of "pander" which Webster defines as "to provide gratification for others' desires" would probably be accurate in the Liberal platform of many elections. #
At the same time, the Republicans do indeed pander to the religious conservative movement in this country. #They run on restriction of abortion, they run on gay marriage vs. civil unions, they run on school prayer, and things of that nature, which also pander to a crowd who's interest is that those things become law. #That is the dilemma currently facing the Republican party. #Some of their most attractive, and most electable candidates are not social conservatives...namely Gulianni, McCain, and Romney. # The question is; will those social conservatives embrace these candidates? #McCain has changed his position to reflect a more social conservative bent, but I'm sure the rank and file of the Christian coalition question his sincerity. #

Of the points mentioned, I think I would agree. #I feel that the answer must lie somewhere in the middle. #Some social programs are great ideas. #Some of them are a waste of money and national resources. #Some ideas of the conservatives are good ideas as well, but some are not. #As an Independent voter, I get called a lot of names; fence sitter, wishy-washy, etc., but that is simply not the case. #My beliefs are very consistent, and happen to be much more issue oriented. To pin me down, you have to ask me about each individual issue, and not about an ideology. #I'm one of the 40 percent of Americans that need to be sold in every election. #Some of the true believers that I see would never get caught dead voting for the opposite party. # I can vote for a candidate in either party if they line up with my beliefs.
Very eloquently put Eric, far better than I would have done on my own, you did pretty much hit the nail on the head, however, I do not consider myself as a centrist.
For instance, I do not believe in abortion and could not support a candidate that proclaims that he/she will attempt to support it through legislation. But my non support for that candidate would be because they believe that this should be a Federal issue rather than a States Rights issue.
I believe in the right to keep and bear arms, as such I cannot support any candidate that has verbally slandered that right, or one that has voted in the past for Gun control measures. Further, I believe that both parties as they exist now are making a total mockery of the constitution through the abreviation of constitutional rights, through spending that is totally contrary to the spirit of the constitution, the strong arm robbery of Social Security reserves, unfair and unequal taxation, just to name a few. Neither party deserves my vote...though other parties claim to see it the way I see it, I can't vote for those that would legalize drugs and that promote that everyone just live their own life, without Government intervention...that won't work either.
The politics of today are so polarized to the extremes of either side, and are so corrupt in their ways, so interested in their own profitability than that of the U.S.A as a whole. Our country is spiraling down the crapper at warp speed, because everthing is driven by more money and less morality...It has to stop somewhere, and I'm afraid that that somewhere isn't going to be...isn't where it should be... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[N7CPC]

..............yawn................................ ..............