ft-857 fm carrier on HF [Archive]

ka5piu

03-13-2007, 06:52 AM

Hello.

What he is referring to is the drive level to the finals.
Yes, the radio can do 180 watts, for a little while. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But, to answer the question, no, from that setting you can not select power levels from mode.
You will need to back up a bit, to exciter level.
The trouble with cranking up the power is that this radio does low level AM, so the more you take things out of class A and into class C the worse the purity of your transmit signal.
And, for the purist, what is ment by low level AM modulation is that the finals are not modulated.
The rig also does not quite do CW.
It does a MCW that is at zero beat, most SSB rigs do this.

K8TEK

03-13-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Mar. 13 2007,02:52)]Hello.

What he is referring to is the drive level to the finals.
Yes, the radio can do 180 watts, for a little while. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But, to answer the question, no, from that setting you can not select power levels from mode.
You will need to back up a bit, to exciter level.
The trouble with cranking up the power is that this radio does low level AM, so the more you take things out of class A and into class C the worse the purity of your transmit signal.
And, for the purist, what is ment by low level AM modulation is that the finals are not modulated.
The rig also does not quite do CW.
It does a MCW that is at zero beat, most SSB rigs do this.
That makes little, if any sense.

Goodbye.

KA8DKT

03-13-2007, 09:38 PM

Sigh.

Actually, this radio will do 100 PEP (peak envelope power) output on SSB, and about 100W on CW. #Probably 80W output on FM on 10M and lower. #It is rated at 50W out on 6M FM.

The input power to the finals is about 150W. 185W input power might be obtainable (about 125W output) at significantly decreased linearity, i.e., at much greater distortion, but with no noticable improvment in signal strength at the receiving end.

The reason you can only use 25W carrier on AM with this radio is that with full modulation (100% modulation) the PEP is 100W. #Are you starting to see a correlation here?

Typically, one "S" unit at the receiver is about 6dB. #25W is 6dB lower than 100W. #So, if you aren't making a contact at 25W, you aren't likely to be making it at 100W no matter what they say at "CB School".

"Cranking it up" such as you described does not improve your signal signifcantly, and in fact, can make your signal so distorted as to be non-copyable. #If you want better signal, you are much much better off investing in a good antenna where you can get 10dB (ten times the effective power) or more with no additional strain on your rig...and the finals will last a lot longer. #A good beam antenna with 10dB of gain will give your 100W PEP transmitter output an effective 1000W PEP in the direction the beam is pointed. #An additional advantage is that when you are receiving, the beam antenna will "null out" unwanted signals coming from directions other than which the antenna is pointed.

-gary

ka5piu

03-14-2007, 08:14 AM

Hello.

What I am referring to is hf3.
This is drive level to the finals, think pot, but this is a soft pot.
And 185 watts is attainable, the finals are at something like 90% of maximum before failure.
As I have the FT-897 and am a ham, I have examined every setting the radio has.
255 is the maximum, on my radio it is 152 from the factory.
The first thing one wants to do is Write Down every setting!
After that, read the service manual in detail, making a note of every adjustment.
After that, a spectrum analyzer, watt meter, ammeter, and a bit of caution will help to understand what is happening while playing with the rig.

nz3m

03-14-2007, 11:32 AM

Turning up power levels on a tranceiver has little effect on the other stations receive other than horrible audio. Signal strength can be improved with 400 watts or so, not the little bit you get from "tweaking" a rig.

One has to leave all CB myths and jargon behind. Please listen to what hams tell you, and you will have a fine amateur station.

As mentioned before, you don't have AM or FM privileges yet on HF. I hope you're not doing this to use an illegal transmitter on CB.

Good luck
Dave

VA3SAX

03-14-2007, 12:40 PM

well if the finals get blown up then I'll take the thing off your hands...it'd work well as the receive side of my satellite setup.

n2vww

03-14-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote[/b] (AB3BK @ Mar. 14 2007,06:32)]Turning up power levels on a tranceiver has little effect on the other stations receive other than horrible audio. Signal strength can be improved with 400 watts or so, not the little bit you get from "tweaking" a rig.

One has to leave all CB myths and jargon behind. Please listen to what hams tell you, and you will have a fine amateur station.

As mentioned before, you don't have AM or FM privileges yet on HF. I hope you're not doing this to use an illegal transmitter on CB.

Good luck
Dave

Great advice!!

Gary n2vww

KA8DKT

03-14-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Mar. 14 2007,04:14)]Hello.

What I am referring to is hf3.
This is drive level to the finals, think pot, but this is a soft pot.
And 185 watts is #attainable, the finals are at something like 90% of maximum before failure.
As I have the FT-897 and am a ham, I have examined every setting the radio has.
255 is the maximum, on my radio it is 152 from the factory.
The first thing one wants to do is Write Down every setting!
After that, read the service manual in detail, making a note of every adjustment.
After that, a spectrum analyzer, watt meter, ammeter, and a bit of caution will help to understand what is happening while playing with the rig.
Indeed. #And in the hands of someone with some technical experience as yourself, you might be able to "tweak" the radio, although as I and others in this topic have pointed out there is really nothing at all to be gained by doing so.

When I read somthing like this Quote[/b] ]I went into the hidden menu system and changed the hf3 MAX power setting to max 255 and love the am power... I just know this guy does not understand this radio, does not understand how radios work in general, and has no technical knowledge and expertise at all.

This mentality seems to be one of "...turn all the knobs fully clockwise and it will work even better [than the engineers who designed it could make it work]..."

I know there will be some offended by this, but I really don't care. #Ham Radio is a wonderful hobby with many aspects to it and no one expects all Ham operators to be engineers. #That said, however, I do think it behooves all licensed Amateur Radio Operators to have at least a basic understanding of what electricity is, what radio waves are and how they propagate, and the basics of how their radios work and their limitations.

The Amateur Radio Service is not CB and hopefully never will be. #

-gary

ka5piu

03-14-2007, 06:30 PM

Hello.

I agree, one should make an effort to understand what everything does BEFORE turning the "knobs".
The situation here is that somebody already cranked it up, and without an understanding of what was cranked.
At the very least, one should look at a block diagram.
This would show that hf3 is the final drive for every mode on HF.
And, as was pointed out, running this wide open is not only not a clean signal but also not good for the finals.
Also, the fact that the original poster does not have AM or FM privileges does not mean it is an illegal CB, or that he is even transmitting.
He could be doing all of this into a dummy load.
I had an FT-897 for almost as long as the thing has been out, with a novice.
I still normally hang on 28.385 MHz

KB3HLK

03-22-2007, 04:04 AM

Ok first off,
I have been doing all TXing into a 500watt dry dummy load using a 32db directional coupler to monitor myself on the Oscilloscope. Not as a CB as some ignorant people described. Secondly thank you for those who actually contributed to this discussion.
And lastly, I thought Ham radio was about experimenting and trying new things and or learning new things. I guess I was wrong and have this hobby completely wrong. As for those on your HIGH HORSES with only arrogant comments to say, I know the laws of bell and how the decibel works, and I also know there is little to gain from this. But Im bored with the hobby since local VHF is dead and 10m seems to be few and far between right now. Until I get the general ticket, This is my way of staying entertained.

Thanks again to those who offered real insight.

My main question was if the Modes had independent power settings. That question has been answered already.

ka5piu

03-22-2007, 04:46 AM

Hello.

Everybody thinks the worst.
I like to see what the radio can really do.
To this end I have tweaked everything at least once.
The ARRL has an article about an audio interface for the FT-897 that is an example of what can be done.
My mic interface is inside the radio and connects by way of a pair of standard 1/8" audio connectors from the bottom, just like the external meter position.
The only thing I did not bring out was a separate PTT line.
This and the DC bias are on the ring of the 1/8" mic connector.
The second 1/8" connector has Receiver audio on the tip and data in on ring one and tip selected by a diode.
I love the Max232 chip but put mine inside the DB9 connector.
This is the same interface I use to program the VX-7R so only the 1/8" connector is changed.
No biggie, as this is also the programming interface for the Kenwood TH-f6a.
So, experiment, it is the only way to learn.

KA8DKT

03-22-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote[/b] (KB3HLK @ Mar. 22 2007,00:04)]Ok first off,
I have been doing all TXing into a 500watt dry dummy load using a 32db directional coupler to monitor myself on the Oscilloscope. Not as a CB as some ignorant people described. Secondly thank you for those who actually contributed to this discussion. #
And lastly, I thought Ham radio was about experimenting and trying new things and or learning new things. I guess I was wrong and have this hobby completely wrong. As for those on your HIGH HORSES with only arrogant comments to say, I know the laws of bell and how the decibel works, and I also know there is little to gain from this. But Im bored with the hobby since local VHF is dead and 10m seems to be few and far between right now. Until I get the general ticket, This is my way of staying entertained.

Thanks again to those who offered real insight.

My main question was if the Modes had independent power settings. That question has been answered already.
Yes, Ham Radio is about experimenting and learning new things. #Several posters here on this thread offered some real expert advice to someone who appeared to be somewhat of a neophyte. #
When someone increases the drive to the finals to the maximum, they are on the road to quickly melt the grids on their finals. #When someone takes a radio like yours and cranks the drive to the maximum and then implies that they are operating AM like this, it leaves others suspicious that the operating instructions were never read or understood.
So it should come as no surprise that you got a reply or two that seemed perhaps a little too harsh.
By the way, the answer to your original question was aready in the question. #When you cranked up the drive in the AM mode, the FM drive went up also. #Thus the drive control does not offer independant settings for the different modes because other modes' drive went up at the same time as the AM mode.
When someone suggests that they'll take the radio when the finals get fried, they may seem to be sarcastic, but there is good advice in that remark, if you are listening.
Finally, the folks here on the 'Zed tend to be a little sarcastic and impatient at times. #Roll with the punches, they are not really meant to hurt your feelings. #Many here are very competent technicians and engineers who each offer a lifetime of knowledge and experience.
Good luck!
-gary

n2vww

03-22-2007, 04:41 PM

Sometimes it is truly amazing to see the replies to good sound advice. The very small smt devices in the modern radios cannot handle an overload very well. Yes you may get more power out of the rig by tweaking menu settings or turning a pot, but for how long? One hour, 5 minutes or maybe 10 seconds? Hey its your radio and money, go for it.

Gary n2vww

k4uug

03-29-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote[/b] (N9FE @ Mar. 09 2007,09:28)]For sale: ft 857, needs work, junk finals..
HA HA THATS A FACT http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

ka5piu

04-06-2007, 02:25 PM

Hello.

Although it is not that common, modern talkie finals die more frequently than the FT-857/897 series.
The reason for that is the fact that the radio does have both current and thermal shutdown.
I have replaced or added the final transistor to the 220 section of the Kenwood TH-F6/7 talkie at least a dozen times or so.
Usually somebody who wants 220 in the euro model.
Sometimes somebody who tried to use a dual band antenna on 220.
So, replacement of the finals in a FT-857/897 is not that big a deal.
I bought the final board for the FT-897, just in case, when the radio first came out, it is still in the package.
Anybody buying the FT-817 should consider buying this board, it is under $50 and the FT-817 does not have very rugged finals.

KD6NIG

04-06-2007, 03:11 PM

CBr? Possibly.

But if he is, hes not listening to his friends. I know we bag on them and all, and there are guys out there who will "tweak, peak, whackpack" but the guys who want to be "loud and proud" won't take a CB designed for 5 watts with 5 watt finals and try to get 50 out of it.

They will get appropriate amplifiers to do the job.

I don't know what your mission with your 857 is, and frankly, I don't want to know. But if you have a need to be QRO, you'd be better off leaving the radio within the specs, and getting an appropriate amplifier(s) to do the QRO work.

Sure, it will mean more expense, but if you run that 857d at 200W, you'll be buying another one pretty quick. That money could be better invested into a small amplifier that will take the proper output of the 857 and bring it up to 200-300 watts like you are trying to achieve.

I don't frankly see the need for it. I use the radio on 6m and above and get good signal reports, and I have yet to even crack it more than halfway open, and thats halfway open on the factory specs. Most of the time on 2m or 6 its set all the way down at 5W. I WISH the thing would go down to 1W, in fact.

I know most ham radio operators view CB'rs as dumb rednecks, and yeah, the ones who run over 5W are breaking the law, but the ones that usually do are smart enough not to overdrive stuff. They know the specs, stay well within them, because they know, just like ham operators do, that once the smoke comes out, there's no way to put it back.

I don't know what you're doing, and I don't want to know, but running the radio outside of spec will result in smoke. If you want smoke, go to a campground, obtain a permit, and have a small campfire. You'll get plenty of smoke.

But keep the smoke inside the radio. Unless you like buying a new radio every month. Keep things within specs and you'll do fine. Don't break the law, and you won't get your hand slapped with a ruler.

The radio has specifications for a reason. People think that manufacturers don't know what they are talking about, but they do. And they tend to not honor warranties when people play around with settings.

A word to the wise http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

W0LPQ

04-06-2007, 04:53 PM

I want to watch while he smokes the grids in the 857! Wonder how much Yaesue will charge to replace them?

Bill, W0LPQ/9

KA8DKT

04-06-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote[/b] (W0LPQ @ April 06 2007,12:53)]I want to watch while he smokes the grids in the 857! #Wonder how much Yaesue will charge to replace them?

Bill, W0LPQ/9
Yeah, OK, its got solid state finals.

The point remains the same, however. #"...love[ing] the AM power..." by overdriving the finals will not result in a better signal anywhere and does still have significant potential for damaging the radio. #Worse, and especially so with solid state finals, doing so will create a signal with illegal and annoying harmonics and spurs when he finally gets on the air. #And, going one step further, if he was really properly monitoring the AM signal with an oscilloscope he would have immediately seen how bad the envelope looked, especially compared to doing AM with the correct setting of the carrier level.

Someone who cranks up a radio like this to get more than 100W of carrier out and then tries to run on AM clearly has failed to read the operator's manual for the radio, and clearly does not understand how the radio works. #And, while the guy may not be an (ex)CBer, this is exactly the kind of operation and abuse that is associated with CBers.

I'm also sorry that he was offended by the posts here. #They did offer good advice...much of which could have been found anyway by spending ten minutes with the operator's manual.

Experimenting is one thing, but a little book-learning goes a long way to understanding the consequences of those experiments.

-gary

KB3HLK

04-08-2007, 07:55 PM

Here we go again.
First. There was no signs of audio clipping or flat toping on the scope. Did the 2nd or 3rd harmonic raise any? Probably but I had no intention of leaving the radio setup this way for actual use. I WAS JUST TESTING THE RIGS CAPABILITY!!!!So to clarify your statement that I dont know how to use an oscilloscope, Maybe I should enlighten you sir. I work for the USAF building and repairing radar jammers. But hey, we don't use oscilloscopes spectrum analyzers, pulse generators, frequency counters, frequency synthesizers, scaler network analyzers, VOM's power meters ...etc. Nope I dont know anything! I just Hook POWER MICS up to everything, turn the echo up and whistle my ass off just to see it swing. This website makes me sick! Nothing constructive ever gets done here because too many self righteous "HAMMERS" get on the soap box. My original question was even though the one menu setting increased both AM and FM carrier, was there a setting to adjust them independently! BY the way I have read the manual front to back and there is no documentation about the menus Im referring to. These menus are meant for the alignment purposes of the factory. So now that this is all cleared up and we all know now that I had no intentions of ever using the rig on the open airwaves, we can all sleep better at night. As to the gentleman that made mention of the transistors failing. The transistors are rated at saturation around the 160 watt Territory. So yes, I was pushing them beyond there specified operating range. But again I was merely testing for very short periods of time and should the transistors of failed I would have replaced them knowing there limits! But they are still fine and producing a full 107watts output at the factory setting. I do appreciate the warnings that those gave me though about them possibly cooking. That is sound advice for anyone to consider. Any way Thanks to those who contributed to the discussion and I applaud the professionalism that some of you have displayed. (unlike my rant above http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

73's

KA8DKT

04-09-2007, 12:24 AM

I must apologise, you might very well know what you are doing. #However, from reading your posts it did indeed seem otherwise.

One point, however, is that with the carrier power adjusted to 120W or so output, there is no way that radio will modulate properly in the AM mode. #There is not enough power available to offer positive modulation at all. #Perhaps the radio has some kind of circuit that allow it to only modulate in the negative direction and shifts the carrier downward to make room for the positive going modulation. #I don't think so, though.

Please go back a re-read your first post. #From an outsider's point of view, not being able to read your mind, it certainly does sound a lot like someone with little or no experience or knowledge.

If I offended you, I really apologise, as I really did not intend offense. #But after re-reading your posts myself, I can see where one could be easily be mislead about you. #These days there has been a large influx of people into the ranks who truly have a lot of misinformation and some superstition about how their radios work, and little or no knowledge even about basic electricity. #When reading your first post I mislead myself too easily into thinking you were one of those.

73,

-gary

KB3HLK

04-09-2007, 04:15 AM

Your absolutely correct and I apologize myself. I didnt clearly ask what I wanted to and can understand some peoples confusion there. The radio's AM carrier was set to about 45 watts and approaching 160 on the voice peaks. Which I thought was decent considering the radio uses low level modulation and dose not produce what some would call true AM. But something interesting is that like you were saying the Negative "peaks" actually do decrease simultaneously with the positives that only increase alittle. The AM was fine for me It was just the FM that was scaring me with a continuous 180 watts. But I was able to lower it through the standard rf power setting. Anyway I was just testing its MAX capabilities like a three year boy with a sling shot, But It was fun and I enjoyed it and now the public knows what the 857 is fully capable of. hihi

Anyway I enjoyed the heated debates http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73's

ka5piu

04-11-2007, 03:27 PM

Hello.

As I can no longer use the FT-897 for its intended use, it does not meet NTIA requirements, I am hacking away at it.
Last night I was transmitting with just the exciter into a bit of wire inside a metal building on 220 MHz.
Of course, coverage was not very good, in fact I did not expect anyone to even be able to hear it.
But hear it they did, I was able to do the 220 net.
After doing that I started back up.
One person, perhaps not understanding what and why, explained that I should use the radio as intended, as I might burn up the finals.
First off, the final board was sitting on the bench, and I made it clear that I was transmitting only with the exciter, but also that this was a controlled experiment.
For some odd reason the FT-8*7 series is limited from 164 MHz to 420 MHz in RX and TX as well as 56 MHZ to 76 MHz.
This makes a 4 meter mod all but impossible but a 220 mod can be done with some effort.
Opening up the receive out of band opens up the transmit, as the radio has some silly firmware.
To make the radio transmit on 118 to 136 is harder than putting it on 220, yaesu put some effort into blocking that.
The concern now is spectrum purity, this series of radio is not all that clean.
So, yes, some people do freak, but the intentions are good.

ac0hd

04-12-2007, 06:56 AM

As a member of this forum I must offer my apology for those individuals so insecure that they feel they must belittle and offer snide remarks in order to feed their fragile (but well educated) egos.

If you are looking for good advice and appropriate answers to questions like, o say..... what Ham radio USED to be, I'm afraid this forum and EHam forum will have little to offer.

These sites offer much in the area of persons strutting about stroking their egos by snobbish and 'know-it-all' comments and talking down to anyone with questions like they are immature 3 year olds aimlessly toddling around in a mysterious radio-land where they have no business.

What ever happened to operators of the past who spent more time helping out community and fellow hams than polishing their personal pride? Probably still there, just making contacts on HF and giving classes in the true tradition of Ham radio rather than hanging around on the forums waiting to pounce on the latest questioner and trying to dampen their enthusiasm by inserting unneeded inappropriate scathing blather.

For those of you who offer helpful and experienced answers and do so to help educate those with a thrist for knowledge and who are in this as a HOBBY... THANK YOU!!

We are ALL still learning...I haven't come across anyone yet who actually DID know it ALL.

73's
ac0hd - Les

WA9SVD

04-12-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote[/b] (KB3HLK @ Mar. 21 2007,21:04)]Ok first off,
I have been doing all TXing into a 500watt dry dummy load using a 32db directional coupler to monitor myself on the Oscilloscope. Not as a CB as some ignorant people described. Secondly thank you for those who actually contributed to this discussion.
And lastly, I thought Ham radio was about experimenting and trying new things and or learning new things. I guess I was wrong and have this hobby completely wrong. As for those on your HIGH HORSES with only arrogant comments to say, I know the laws of bell and how the decibel works, and I also know there is little to gain from this. But Im bored with the hobby since local VHF is dead and 10m seems to be few and far between right now. Until I get the general ticket, This is my way of staying entertained.

Thanks again to those who offered real insight.

My main question was if the Modes had independent power settings. That question has been answered already.
No offense, but you seem a bit TOO defensive.

OK, we'll accept that you are using a dummy load, and not operating illegally.
But BEFORE you "tweak" any controls to maximum, it would be prudent to understand what effects (both good and bad) those tweaks will have.
And without adequate test equipment, (in many cases, that includes use of a spectrum analyzer) you may not be able to properly adjust your equipment, leading to reduced reliability, a signal less than exemplary or not even within Amateur standards, or a combination thereof.
Experimentation is certainly a cornerstone of Amateur Radio. But blind "turning of knobs" is not necessarily experimentation; the goal of experimentation should be to increase knowledge, but you have to be able to understand the theory behind the experimentation before it can be beneficial.
And SOME of us on our "High Horses" are trying to explain to you that a "tweak" or adjustment that has no benefit, yet may ultimately reduce the reliability or performance of your radio is not a wise thing to do. And just MIGHT prevent your coming back later to ask "WHERE DO I GET REPLACEMENT FINALS FOR MY RADIO?"

KC7YPJ

04-25-2007, 04:49 PM

While the innitial post was somewhat devoid of extra information it did ask a clear question and provide the needed info to answer the question. The fact that the overwhelming majority of responses were outrite rude and in the realm of "Get off my bands cb'er trash" answers the question as to why experimentation with radios is nearly dead, without any additional information as to the circumstances and conditions surrounding said mod most jumped on the "your an idiot" bandwagon.

The few who actually supplied an answer without heavy doses of sarcasm and disdain are to be comended for there efforts, people willing to elmer without judgement and a thick layer of holier than thou complex are a rare treasure indeed.

If the "elite" crowd are in need of a fresh subject to trash look for my post asking for help bringing an old 2970 back from the cb'er graveyard.

WA9SVD

04-26-2007, 12:36 AM

Again, no offense BUT:

You seem to misunderstand an important fact about the output devices:

While you might not be pushing the voltage, current or power ratings of the devices, (although you admit you were) you MAY very well be exceeding the heatsinking ability of the radio!
It matters not what the power rating of a device is if it is not properly and adequately heatsinked. Pushing the radio beyond the design values may very well damage the output devices, even if they don't fail outright or immediately.

But your claim that you are "hacking away" at the radio because it no longer suits your purposes (not NTIA accpetable? The only place that should apply is in regards to CAP.) is a bit disturbing. Many of us can't even afford a new radio such as a FT-897, much less "experiment" with it to the extent of possible damage.

ka5piu

04-26-2007, 06:12 AM

Hello.

Again, the output devices were not even inside the radio.
Kind of hard to have a thermal runaway problem.
The radio now can transmit "out of band" on 220.
And, yes, this was primarily a CAP radio, replaced and thus an Amateur Radio delight.
I am working on a highly modded final board for the radio, the current mods do not allow room for reassembly of the radio.

WA9SVD

04-26-2007, 02:13 PM

Good luck.

(BTW, some info you just gave was not initially provided.)

But good luck. As you say, experimentation IS part of Amateur Radio.

ka5piu

04-27-2007, 04:01 AM

Hello.

Once the people at Yaesu found out what I was doing they were able to provide what what I was looking for.
Turns out the FT-897 is based on a Japanese military tactical radio.
The external case of the military radio is nothing like the amateur product but the internals are quite close indeed.
Enough to where one can strip the FT-897 and put this inside the other radio housing.
A failed military radio has been provided for the conversion.
On the military model there is no large VFO knob.
The only other major change is in the connectors but that is a minor issue.
The range of the military model is 1 to 550 MHz with no gaps.
The military model does meet NTIA specs, go figure.
This will be a month long project at this point.

VE7NOT

04-27-2007, 04:41 AM

Hang on a moment. Are you saying the 897 can do dc-500MHz (meaning 220MHz)?

ka5piu

04-27-2007, 05:11 AM

Quote[/b] (VE7NOT @ April 26 2007,21:41)]Hang on a moment. Are you saying the 897 can do dc-500MHz (meaning 220MHz)?
Hello.

The FT-897 can not do anything but the ham bands and a bit more.
The military model that the FT-897 is based on can do nearly DC to daylight.
Ever notice that the TH-F6 and the VX-7R look quite a bit alike?
Each is based on the Japanese military talkie that each company makes.
Yaesu does not market its military products at all.
This is a government policy, so getting a tactical radio, even if just a broken one for use as a pattern, is rare indeed.
And, to make this clear, the number of NDA's that were signed make getting Motorola RSS look easy.
Even than, this thing had to be delivered to a military installation.
All testing is being done at Kelly heliport in San Antonio.
As you may have figured out by now, there are quite a few FT-8x7 radios now surplus to the original use that are getting hacked by the military aviation bunch.
It is hoped that the experiments will lead to a good 220 mod for the FT-8x7 series of radios, where most of us hang.

ka5piu

04-28-2007, 03:21 AM

Hello.

What keeps the FT-897 from doing 4 meters and 220.
There is a filter set missing from 58 to 76 MHz and 164 to 259 MHz.
There is another filter set for 259 to 419 MHz but not needed for Amateur Radio.
As I have operated this radio with no finals I was able to get the thing to work the entire range.
The 118 to 136 MHz is easily fixed, the filtering is in place.
Without the filtering in place and the firmware enabled the radio does not work that range, TX or RX.
Update.
The radio can easily be made to out of band for 220 at reduced power.
I am looking at a conversion that can be supplied that would mean SMD parts and a firmware update.
48 to 54 MHz, for MARS, is just a firmware update.
4 meters is an entire project into itself.
The radio will be tested as time permits over the weekend.

WA9SVD

04-29-2007, 01:05 PM

Just curious:
The topic was started by KB3HLK, but now WA5PIU is answering questiona and "explaining" the original post? What gives?

ka5piu

04-29-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ April 29 2007,06:05)]Just curious:
# #The topic was started by KB3HLK, but now WA5PIU is answering questiona and "explaining" the original post? #What gives?
Hello.

What "gives" is that we are all in the same boat as it were.
This series of radios was blacklisted by the NTIA for CAP service, so anybody involved with that use now has a ham rig.
As the number of actual hams in the Air Force or CAP is limited, there are more than enough radios to go around.
Any radios we do not find a use for are to be demilled, and by that I mean smashed to bits and split into recycleable parts.
As the NTIA rules are not as strict on the 160 to 170 MHz band and 225 to 400 MHz band a real effort is being put forth to make mods happen.
I just happen to be the one "full of piss and vinegar" at the moment, and not on any assignment, I am still under investigation for an incident.

WA9SVD

04-29-2007, 08:34 PM

OK. Just wondering though. Why can't CAP sell the equipment instead of trashing them? If they are standard Amateur units, it would make $en$e and bring more $ to the program. (Of course, that's a civilian's opinion.) It's not as if the radios are actually "military" equipment.

I'd be more than glad to pay a few dozen $ over the scrap price for one of those radios. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ka5piu

04-29-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ April 29 2007,13:34)]OK. #Just wondering though. #Why can't CAP sell the equipment instead of trashing them? If they are standard Amateur units, it would make $en$e and bring more $ to the program. #(Of course, that's a civilian's opinion.) #It's not as if the radios are actually "military" equipment.

# #I'd be more than glad to pay a few dozen $ over the scrap price for one of those radios. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hello.

I would agree with you but this is not policy.
All military electronics is getting demilled, laptops, radios, what have you.
And, this policy is government wide.

WA9SVD

04-29-2007, 09:08 PM

I see. Our government at work. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I remember when you used to be able to buy surplus "military" electronics. LOTS of us got started with ARC-5's left over from WW II. They were STILL plentiful in the early 60's.

w0ikz

05-04-2007, 05:33 AM

I think the original poster tweaked his rig into a dummy load. Saw that the power went up to say 180 watts ! He may of may not have read the "book", But after what he's been put thru on this thread, I'm sure that he will dig it out and really read it this time
Maybe we should encourage all newbies to buy used TUBE rigs to start out. They are much more forgiving than solid state... Then graduate to an amplifier that uses two 833's at 1 KW. Advantage, they heat the shack in the winter time , and you don't need any lights on . They light up the room.
I say , Don't dispair to our poster, Don't take too many things said in here to heart. Some guys just can't resist being Smart A$$ with thier answers.

flip< no smart a$$ but been in this hobby since '52

WA9SVD

05-04-2007, 02:15 PM

I don't think anybody was deliberately trying to be a Smart A- -. As the thread progressed, more information GRADUALLY emerged as to what the original poster wanted to accomplish , how he accomplished it, and WHY, as well as his qualifications to do so.
Lack of information leads to all kinds of replies.
Remember, many that inquire here do NOT know what effect a "tweak" or mod will accomplish, and many responses are aimed at preventing "golden screwdriver" adjustments that will ultimately damage a piece of equipment.
In other threads, requests (especially for transmit everywhere mods) are met with less than complimentary answers because the person posting the question 1) Can't find the answer themselves, or don't want to make an effort to do so. 2.) Doesn't have a legitimate reason for making a "mod." So it's pointed out that use on Marine, Police, Fire, etc. frequencies is a serious violation of FCC rules. If the originator comes back with a smart a- - answer like "that's my business," he/she is less likely to get an answer, or one equally as "smart a--."

ka5piu

05-06-2007, 07:33 PM

Hello.

Well, here is where we are at.
The radio can do 1 MHz to 56 MHz as part of the original mods.
The 30 to 50 MHz range has government every 2 MHz as sort of a sandwich, so that covers this use.
The radio can do 118 to 136 MHz, the shared aviation band, again, covered.
136 to 174 MHz has a mix of government and civil users, so the more coverage the better.
220, and as far into the 225 to 400 MHz band we can get.
400 to 512 MHz is nice.
So, with that said, we have.
1 MHz to 56 MHz.
118 MHz to 164 MHz.
236 MHz to 328 MHz.
420 MHz to 470 MHz.
Without the addition of anything but retuning and firmware updates.
So, we have 3 gaps to cover, and that is going to take months to do, as not only is this to be added filter sections but making it fit inside this already cramped radio is proving to be a challange.
We are not going to do anything with 4 meters at this time if ever.