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N9MXX
02-17-2007, 01:11 PM
What are the regs about HAM aboard a cruise ship?

We are headed to the Caribbean at the end of the month. The ship is registered in Bermuda. Can we operate while aboard?

Has anyone else done this?

John

NA4BH
02-17-2007, 01:54 PM
If I remember correctly, you need permission of the Captain/cruise line. Your radio cannot interfere with their radios. Once onboard, after getting permission, re-inform the Captain and the radio operator about your request. I would get in writting from the Cruise Line, this way they cant say the conversation never took place. And remember, when you are on Charlies turf, play by Charlies rules.

AG4AX
02-17-2007, 02:28 PM
I had no problem bringing my HT onboard but went to the purser's office and got written permission by way of the captain before using it. With all this terrorist nonsense going on I can understand the strict rules so make sure you get permission in writing before using it to play it safe. They are well aquainted with this request and it is a very simple but necessary rule to play by.

n1ydx
02-17-2007, 03:22 PM
If you are on a Cruise Ship and have the Captains permission to utilize your equipment ( HT ), do you also need recipical agreement say if you are in Bermuda or in Mexico or Grand Caymons and transmitting ? Or does the ships located cover you ?

Just a thought

N1YDX - Lee

KI4DSO
02-17-2007, 05:36 PM
The ARRL's website has a FAQ that covers this exact question:

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/io/maritime.html#wife

W0JBC
02-18-2007, 12:04 PM
My Comment:

If you are on a " CRUISE " , supposedly for recreation, WHY bring HF ( VHF ) on board for X-MIT !!!


It takes a real " NERD " to do these things...


Leave ham at home ...


Enjoy the vacation .

I received an " OK " from the Arubian people to run HF while there....

Didn't use it because I enjoyed the experience .....

Enjoy yourself !!

There are stations there ....

Knock on the door of a Ham down there !!!

NO, just be a nerd ... Take your KILLER rig with ya ......

Forget the vacation ....

I thought about it..... It is COOL to spend all that time ..
Enjoying the experience just being there.....

I think I have hurt some feelings ....


Jeeze, you are NOT on a DX-pedition ....


Been there and thought about it....

If you are going by your lonesome self, DO IT !!!!

Your HT will do a bangup job ... "specially " with that whuppin' 5 watts ....


Good question though....



JB

W2NSF
02-18-2007, 12:25 PM
In the "good old days" you could occasionally get permission from an airline pilot to operate; imagine how many repeaters you could hit with your little HT pressed against the window of your airplane at 32,000 ft!

W0JBC
02-18-2007, 12:47 PM
W2NSF:

I have done that... At 32K, you will trip MANY repeaters...

Thought it was great !! ...

That was with the captain's permission ... T'was sorta like the ISS ... Too many to copy ... They Jumped all over each other t make contact .... Probably 50 repeater ops ... Then went to simplex ....


800-1000 miles was the norm... Still jumped in as I was talking to ONE station ..


That was 35 years ago ... I can just imagine what the ISS or SHUTTLES deal with today....


5 watts from 32 thousand feet ...


It was fun once.... turned the HT off after 10 minutes.....

It was TWA and the pilot ( a ham friend ) asked me how that experience went ... I told him , disasterous ... He laughed ....




JB

N2RJ
02-18-2007, 03:06 PM
The cruise line will most likely say no, and they will also refuse tours of the radio room.

So just forget about it.

W4RLR
02-19-2007, 03:08 AM
For the official guidance, FCC Part 97.11 "Operation on ships or aircraft"

The FCC Rule Book should be in every shack. It took me about two minutes to find the appropriate regulation.

KA0GKT
02-19-2007, 03:34 AM
If you plan to operate aboard ship you will need permission from the cruise line and the ship's captain. Even if you are given permission by the criuse company, you still need the permission of the Ship's Master, and the Ship's Master can give or revoke permission at any time for any reason.

That said, personally, I would take in all of the amenities available shipboard and enjoy the time with my spouse. The ham gear would stay home on a cruise ship...now, if I were criusing around the world on a freighter, that would be a different story. I'd be working HF marine mobile at the drop of a hat!.

73 DE KAGKT/7

--Steve

W5HTW
02-19-2007, 03:56 AM
I agree -- who the heck are you going to talk to? The wife? Why not be WITH her instead of 200 feet away using an HT? Geez. Isn't that what a cruise is for, to relax with your family or spouse? Afraid I don't understand this philosophy. (Unless, of course, you are an EMCOMMer and are planning to save the sinking ship with your radio. In that case, be sure and take your badge and your orange vest.)

But if ya gotta, yeah get permission from the ship's captain. Or he may confiscate your HT until the cruise ends. Or forever.

As to operating repeaters from an aircraft ... problem is you key up 100 repeaters but you only hear two or three of them at most. So you are capturing -- interfering with - dozens of repeaters you aren't even hearing, making them useless. If you are going to operate from an airplane on VHF or UHF, do it simplex. I hear quite a few simplex operations from airplanes and that's neat enough - a 30,000 foot antenna. But operating repeaters? You create a mess you can't even hear, but you sure make a few hundred repeater users very angry.

We used to get folks like this (they probably still do) who would get on some mountain outside Denver and get on a repeater pair. Fine. Except they were bringing up repeaters in Kansas, Nebraska, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and all over Colorado, but they could only hear the one. Kind of like smashing ants with a stick of dynamite. You get the one that bit you. And a lot more.

Yeah, leave the HT in the hotel. Enjoy the music, the dancing, the ocean, the cruise, the food, the service, the stops.

Ed

Oh yes, to answer the original question about "HAM" on a cruise ship. Eat it if they serve it, and if it is cooked properly, and it will be.

N2CFJ
02-19-2007, 07:15 PM
Many years ago my parents wrnt on a "cruise" on a cargo ship, (banana boat). This ship had abut 3-4 cabins for guests. Turns out the radio op was also a ham and my father would disappear for hours to play with the rig in the ship's radio shack. I would imagine that the bigger the ship the less likely they would accomodate private requests for tours.

K0CMH
02-19-2007, 08:31 PM
Comment in two parts:

1. #If you have not already checked the ARRL web site,you will need a number of things. #a.) permission from the curise line and/or captain of the ship, b.) permission or reciprical license from the country that the ship is flagged in (Bahamas I believe you said) c. Permission and/or reciprocial license from every countries' waters you enter into and and operate in. #Also you will need to know the rules/regulations of all those countries, since you must operate according to their requirements, not the US. #Unfortunately, it has become almost impossible to get permission from the curise lines or Captains. #It seems their automatic answers is NO.

2. #On most Caribbean cruises, you often pass close enough to a number of landmasses to physically make contact with repeaters. #I took my HT on an eastern Caribbean cruise and as the ship passed by Hati, the Dominican Republic, Purto Rico and the Bahamas, I picked up a number of repeaters, plus some 2 meter FM simplex conversations. #From the open, top deck, I am sure my little FT-60R would have made it. #And then there are the ports the ships stop in. #That curise did put in at the US Virgian Islands, and I did use and make contacts with my HT WHILE ON LAND. #Even got into an IRLP node on St. Thomas and bugged my buddies back home.

I didn't think about getting all the paperwork in line for that cruise, so I mostly listened, except when on US soil. #My last crusie, I just didn't even try. #To much hassle, but my little HT did pick up a number of 2 meter repeaters from Grand Cayman and the eastern coast of Mexico.

EDIT: You will also find the cruise ships crawling with FRS radios, and nothing is said to those folks. Humm, I wonder what CB would do?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? "Skip land, Skip land, this is Crusing Craig, motivitating in the Caribbean, with the barnical side down and the pool side up, running a full 4 pounds . . ."

KC0NBW
02-19-2007, 08:46 PM
i have heard that some cruise lines have on board ham setups for the use of passengers that are hams. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

K0CMH
02-19-2007, 10:30 PM
NBW: #Can you find out who they are and list them here?

Edit: I also learned two crusies ago that these ships don't have a traditional "radio room" any more. They just have a few of the radios necessary by international laws (like the vhf frequencies for ports, the emergency frequencies required by inernational laws, etc.). These are on the bridge and it was explained to me by the electronics officer on the ship as being extremely "limited access, and we cannot allow passengers on the bridge". I was able to see a picture of the radios, very disappointing, looked just like little "marine radios" mounted in a pannel off to the side of the steering/navigation section of the bridge. Any communications that requires text, arrangements for medical assistance, lost passengers, etc. are now handled through the Pursors office through satelite links, Cell phone, etc. There is no more CW and telegrams to/from these ships. About all the do is call for a pilot when approching ports, or call a ship that is passing nearby to be sure they see eachother. Your local ARES member's car is better equiped these days.

KC0NBW
02-20-2007, 02:59 AM
Quote[/b] (k0cmh @ Feb. 19 2007,15:30)]NBW: #Can you find out who they are and list them here?

Edit: #I also learned two crusies ago that these ships don't have a traditional "radio room" any more. #They just have a few of the radios necessary by international laws (like the vhf frequencies for ports, the emergency frequencies required by inernational laws, etc.). #These are on the bridge and it was explained to me by the electronics officer on the ship as being extremely "limited access, and we cannot allow passengers on the bridge". #I was able to see a picture of the radios, very disappointing, looked just like little "marine radios" mounted in a pannel off to the side of the steering/navigation section of the bridge. #Any communications that requires text, arrangements for medical assistance, lost passengers, etc. are now handled through the Pursors office through satelite links, Cell phone, etc. #There is no more CW and telegrams to/from these ships. #About all the do is call for a pilot when approching ports, or call a ship that is passing nearby to be sure they see eachother. #Your local ARES member's car is better equiped these days.
how about if you find them and list them here? you have just as good a chance as i do !

i was just making a comment on something i heard on hf in the last couple of years !

W0JBC
02-20-2007, 10:30 AM
Ki4PEQ - Richard :

Just a comment:

You're comment signature is in CW....

There is nothing wrong with that except.......

I just wish it were audible....
I don't know how you learned morse ... The old flash-card process didn't work for me .. Audio only ... I am not spending any time to decipher what that is....
You are NOT the only person to do this ... Usually, it is a coder with a grudge .....It is all good...




I won't read your's or others ....


I guess it is a ham thing..

Good day

JB

WB2WIK
02-20-2007, 07:04 PM
I disagree about not bothering to bring HF gear on a cruise.

I've done it three times and intend to do it again, probably. XYL and kids didn't mind. Cruises can be pretty long and while at sea can get a bit boring. I do lay by the pool and read, play tennis and volleyball and ping pong, maybe try their golf facilities, do some swimming and of course enjoy the night life (dinners, dinner shows, comedy shows, etc) after dark. But I tend to rise very early in the morning when absolutely nothing's going on, and while the XYL heads to the gym for a workout, I head to the upper deck for some hammming.

This requires the cruise ship line's permission as well as the Captain's permission, and I've found those pretty easy to get. What's harder to get is licensing from the country of ship's registry unless it's Bahamian, and licensing from the ports of call if you want to operate from those ports. Even our close neighbor Mexico has very strict requirements: As an American licensed ham, you may not operate "portable XE2" or whatever from Mexico without permission, and that has both a cost and a lead time. Cost is about $100 ($USD) and the permit lasts one year, even if you only need it for an hour.

No cost or special permit required for Canada, and obviously not for U.S. territories, either. But many places have their own requirements, some of which can be surprising.

In International Waters, you don't need any licenses from the port countries.

Now, the fun part: Operating HF from the open sea, using even 50W and a gel-cell for power, if you can use the upper deck and any sort of decent antenna, works very well. "Ignition noise" is usually zero since the engines are diesels, and you can get far away from them, anyway. Local QRM is usually just about nonexistent. An antenna 100+ feet above the water works well even when it's pretty small, like a whip clamped to the railing. I found the only drawback to /MM cruise ship operation is the wind noise up on those high decks, especially the upper deck. The ship's normally cruising at 18 knots and it's windy even on a very calm day, just due to forward speed. The wind can be so noisy, you need headphones to operate -- period. A speaker won't cut it.

I found working "CW" much easier than "phone," again, mostly due to wind noise. The wind adds modulation on phone that's very difficult to cut down without a special noise cancelling microphone.

The lower decks are much quieter, but not nearly as good a radio location. You really want to be up there on the highest deck with that 20 mile ocean view...

WB2WIK/6

N4CD
02-20-2007, 08:05 PM
Yaesu in the past sponsored two different cruises I believe...arranged to have temporary stations in some of the 'destinations' for the hams to use for a short time while on land. I don't think there was enough interest to keep it going. IT wasn't worth the money to get in 15 minutes of operating from some island.

Contacts from being /MM don't count for anything, and unless you have a license from the country you visit, the ARRL will not accept your QSL card (if you got them printed up) for DXCC. You must have a license to operate from countries requiring it, and other than US territories in the Caribbean, many do - other than Guadeloupe and some of the other French islands who are covered by the CEPT agreement. You sign yourcall/FG in those countries covered by CEPT.

Bahamas and most independent countries require a license (Aruba) for one and payment of a fee.

The last 'ham radio cruise' was quite a few years ago.

t.

W0JBC
02-20-2007, 09:03 PM
Unless you are a REAL GEEK ....

A cruise is for relaxation ....

Sure, I could have done that also ....

PULEEZE ...

I AM impressed, also see why you have 20000 posts !!

What a life you must have ...

The only thing missing is a trip to the ISS..


JB

WB2WIK
02-20-2007, 09:11 PM
Quote[/b] (W0JBC @ Feb. 20 2007,14:03)]Unless you are a REAL GEEK ....

A cruise is for relaxation ....

Sure, I could have done that also ....

PULEEZE ...

I AM impressed, also see why you have 20000 posts !!

What a life you must have ...

The only thing missing is a trip to the ISS..


JB
Thanks for the nice comments. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

For me, a cruise isn't for relaxation. A cruise for me is a short version of a trip on an ocean liner; unlike a liner trip, a cruise doesn't necessarily cross an ocean. But we go mostly for the ports of call and the stuff we do there. A cruise is a cheap and easy way to get there without going by air, and the ship is our hotel -- it's actually much cheaper to take a cruise than to fly to 3-4 destinations and stay in a hotel each time.

So, the time spent on the ship, for us, is like time spent on an airplane. It's just more comfortable, slower and has better food.

WB2WIK/6

KC0NBW
02-20-2007, 11:07 PM
Quote[/b] (W0JBC @ Feb. 20 2007,14:03)]Unless you are a REAL GEEK ....

A cruise is for relaxation ....

Sure, I could have done that also ....

PULEEZE ...

I AM impressed, also see why you have 20000 posts !!

What a life you must have ...

The only thing missing is a trip to the ISS..


JB
someone with 20,000 posts? where?

N9MXX
02-21-2007, 01:55 AM
Ok, Thanks for the links and advice.

Some of the comments were helpful, and others, well, thanks for taking the time to respond, or not.

I do have to say though, some of you guys gotta relax a bit...

John

KC0NBW
02-21-2007, 02:57 AM
Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Feb. 18 2007,20:56)]#

We used to get folks like this (they probably still do) who would get on some mountain outside Denver and get on a repeater pair. #Fine. #Except they were bringing up repeaters in Kansas, Nebraska, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and all over Colorado, but they could only hear the one. # Kind of like smashing ants with a stick of dynamite. #You get the one that bit you. #And a lot more.
are you trying to tell us that operating from the top of mt. evans has been done before?



i plan to try hf and maybe 2 meter ssb or cw from there next time i get out there, but i would not even consider any repeater frequencies ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

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