QRZ NOT HAM RADIO ? [Archive]

n0iu

01-31-2007, 07:53 PM

On QRZ.COM, we talk about amateur radio, not ON the radio. You do not need any amateur radio equipment to gain access to QRZ.COM.

The true "spirit" of amateur radio is for two (or more) people to communicate with each other with no wires or some other dedicated link between them. This is why many peole do not consider EchoLink to be "real" radio.

Unless you use HughesNet or some other satellite delivered Internet service, there is no radio involved in accessing QRZ.COM. And if you do use a satellite delivered Internet service, those transmissions are not regulated by the amateur radio service.

The "regulation" to keep QRZ.COM G rated is in accordance to the rules set by the owner and moderators, not by the FCC.

You ability to contact someone else via amateur radio is based solely on the capabilities of your equipment, propagation conditions and skill with a little bit of luck thrown in. None of those things are required to commmunicate with someone over the Internet.

Scott NØIU

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 31 2007,12:47)]The difference is history. #Amateur radio has a history of seeking friendship, nice conversation on the air, avoiding politics, religion, sex, etc on the air. #Internet has a history of in your face, foul language, freedom of speech. #Alot of the goob-ness you see on HR today is the Internet culture's effect on it. #

As Amateurs, we should seel the kinder, gentler Amateur Radio (where everyone tries to be nice) as opposed to the crap-pile in your living room nature of the Internet. #Unless you can keep the two apart in your mind, you're going to be disappointed with either or both.
based on the trend of the last 50 years of listing to the radio, and the past couple of years on qrz, I have found the talk to be about the same. there is as much good things as there ard bad things said on both, so there realy is no differance in that respect.

on QRZ you do not get the mic scratchers, qrm, and all the other garbage, good filtering right ?

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 31 2007,12:53)]On QRZ.COM, we talk about amateur radio.

The true "spirit" of amateur radio is for two (or more) people to communicated with each other with no wires or some other dedicated link between them. This is why many peole do not consider EchoLink to be "real" radio.

Unless you use HughesNet or some other satellite delivered Internet service, there is no radio involved in accessing QRZ.COM. And if you do use a satellite delivered Internet service, those transmissions are not regulated by the amateur radio service.

The "regulation" to keep QRZ.COM G rated is in accordance to the rules set by the owner and moderators, not by the FCC.

Scott NØIU
I don't have satatlite service but I do use microwave service as I am out in the country, miles from the nearest town.

my cabel tv is on one microwave antenna and the internet is on another microwave antenna.

so in my case no wires are involved it is radio waves.

weather we must abide by the rules of the FCC or the rules of the QRZ we still must abide by the rules,
so there is no differance there.

WA9SVD

01-31-2007, 08:00 PM

QRZ not Ham Radio???

That's exactly right!

It's a small percentage of Amateurs and those purportedly interested in Amateur Radio. Sometimes look at the number of views vs. the number of responses. Not everyone who views a topic or thread makes, or feels they must (or should) make a comment.

But with the anonimity of the Internet, some people feel they are free to make derogatory remarks and throw insults they wouldn't have the courage to convey either on the air, or certainly not in a face-to-face meeting.

Also, realize that forums here (and elsewhere) are often merely a way for some to vent their frustration over certain unpleasant matters over which they have no control.
Better they vent their spleen here than getting into a heated insult-fest on the air.

The only REAL Ham Radio (IMHO) is that which occurs through the aether. What comes across on QRZ or any other site isn't a true cross section, and shouldn't be taken as such.

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Jan. 31 2007,13:00)]QRZ not Ham Radio???

# #That's exactly right!

# #It's a small percentage of Amateurs and those purportedly interested in Amateur Radio. #Sometimes look at the number of views vs. the number of responses. #Not everyone who views a topic or thread makes, or feels they must (or should) make a comment.

# #But with the anonimity of the Internet, some people feel they are free to make derogatory remarks and throw insults they wouldn't have the courage to convey either on the air, or certainly not in a face-to-face meeting.

# #Also, realize that forums here (and elsewhere) are often merely a way for some to vent their frustration over certain unpleasant matters over which they have no control.
# #Better they vent their spleen here than getting into a heated insult-fest on the air.

# #The only REAL Ham Radio (IMHO) is that which occurs #through the aether. #What comes across on QRZ or any other site isn't a true cross section, and shouldn't be taken as such.
so what your saying is that when a ham is on the radio, he/she is like a differant person, and when he/she is on QRZ, the evil withen comes to the serface ?

something don't seam right about that.

AG3Y

01-31-2007, 08:05 PM

I recently had a bad experience on this forum, when I tried to inform a fellow ham that what he was thinking of doing MIGHT be illegal.

A third party jumped in and made a very crude comment about my status in life.

The original post was removed first, and then the entire string was deleted, I would assume by a Moderator, or by Fred himself.

This is the type of thing you might expect on the internet, but unfortunately, I am seeing this type of attitude showing up more and more over the airwaves. Is it not acceptable in one venue ( on the air ) but acceptable in the other ( Internet ) I believe the answer must be NO !

Poor behavior and bad attitude is bad, regardless of the venue on which it appears.

"QRZ is NOT HAM RADIO" is just a terrible excuse to be as boorish as you want to be. And not only is it a terrible excuse, the thought that you can do anything you want to, just because it is the Internet is an outright lie ! Bad is BAD, no matter where it is practiced!

Jim

n0iu

01-31-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,08:00)]I don't have satatlite service but I do use microwave service as I am out in the country, miles from the nearest town.

my cabel tv is on one microwave antenna and the internet is on another microwave antenna.

so in my case no wires are involved it is radio waves.

weather we must abide by the rules of the FCC or the rules of the QRZ we still must abide by the rules,
so there is no differance there.
As with satellite delivered Internet, while microwave delivered Internet does use radio waves to transmit data, those frequency ranges are not within those allocated to the amateur radio service and are therefore NOT amateur radio related. Having your dish mounted in the same tower as your amateur radio antennas does not make it amateur radio! I have an antenna mounted on the roof of a barn, but that doesn't make me a farmer!

As far as the rules go, if you break the rules on QRZ.COM, the worst that can happen is they can kick you off and not allow you to come back. If you break the rules governing the amateur radio service, you can be fined thousands of dollars and do some serious jail time. I would say there is a HUGE difference!

Scott NØIU

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Jan. 31 2007,13:05)]I recently had a bad experience on this forum, when I tried to inform a fellow ham that what he was thinking of doing MIGHT be illegal. #

A third party jumped in and made a very crude comment about my status in life. #

The original post was removed first, and then the entire string was deleted, I would assume by a Moderator, or by Fred himself.

This is the type of thing you might expect on the internet, but unfortunately, I am seeing this type of attitude showing up more and more over the airwaves. #Is it not acceptable in one venue ( on the air ) but acceptable in the other ( Internet ) #I believe the answer must be NO !

Poor behavior and bad attitude is bad, regardless of the venue on which it appears. #

"QRZ is NOT HAM RADIO" is just a terrible excuse to be as boorish as you want to be. #And not only is it a terrible excuse, the thought that you can do anything you want to, just because it is the Internet is an outright lie ! #Bad is BAD, no matter where it is practiced!

Jim
so then, which would prefer,
QRZ to be more like on the air conversations,

or on the air conversations to be more like QRZ.

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 31 2007,13:07)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,08:00)]I don't have satatlite service but I do use microwave service as I am out in the country, miles from the nearest town.

my cabel tv is on one microwave antenna and the internet is on another microwave antenna.

so in my case no wires are involved it is radio waves.

weather we must abide by the rules of the FCC or the rules of the QRZ we still must abide by the rules,
so there is no differance there.
As with satellite delivered Internet, while microwave delivered Internet does use radio waves to transmit data, those frequency ranges are not within those allocated to the amateur radio service and are therefore NOT amateur radio related. Having your dish mounted in the same tower as your amateur radio antennas does not make it amateur radio! I have an antenna mounted on the roof of a barn, but that doesn't make me a farmer!

As far as the rules go, if you break the rules on QRZ.COM, the worst that can happen is they can kick you off and not allow you to come back. If you break the rules governing the amateur radio service, you can be fined thousands of dollars and do some serious jail time. I would say there is a HUGE difference!

Scott NØIU
very true
but the end result would be the same
no more talking there.

KD5NCO

01-31-2007, 08:13 PM

I think some of the on air boorish behavior is directly caused by e-ham, hamsexy, QRZ or other Internet based BBS, chat-room, forums, moderated or unmoderated.

I know that the thoughts Charlie posted above are very true.

I know that we all feel free to express ourselves in the most in your face rude methods possible here. And I firmly believe this has had a negative impact with some on air behavior.

Of course American society has gradually become much more crass, rude, and boorish. Very hard to find much in the way of polite conversation or discussion these days. I find even in basic business discussions, briefings, or decision meetings; a lot of argumentative and rude behavior.

I also note that the older leadership, or my-aged peers, are no less guilty, as the younger ladder climbers in the "who started it" game. There is enough selfish "I am more important then you" attitude for everybody to share equally in American culture today.

Fortunatly, I can still find hundreds of QSOs that are managing to ID properly, OPS being polite and curtious, help being offered, arguments conducted without foul invectives...you get the idea. I think I prefer the on air conversations and discussions.

I have never one time had any Amateur Radio Operator on the other side of a QSO refer to me as just another dumb assed lazy No Code Tech...Never has happened. In fact I doubt it ever will.

KA3CTQ

01-31-2007, 08:14 PM

Trolling....trolling.....trolling.......Bang!

He hooked some big ones on this string!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

KD5NCO

01-31-2007, 08:16 PM

you got to add one more to your post count..I got in a "two fer" with this observation

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote[/b] (KA3CTQ @ Jan. 31 2007,13:14)]Trolling....trolling.....trolling.......Bang!

He hooked some big ones on this string!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
yes indeed

this was my very first troll and found some very interesting comments.
it was fun and interesting to say the least.

at first I thought it was going too fast for me to keep up with it.

the bottom line I wanted to bring out is.
I think one should conduct himself the same as if he were on the air.

but doing that would take a lot of the fun out of it.

WA9SVD

01-31-2007, 08:31 PM

QRZ is not Ham Radio any more than the Internet is Ham Radio.

While there are (implied) rules of civility, or lack thereof on the Internet, they have nothing to do with FCC rules for Amateur Radio over the air.
Fred and the moderators call the shots here, NOT the FCC. things that might be illegal over the air can pass, and things that wouldn't be illegal over the air (even in the poorest of taste) might get a thread locked. THAT is the site's right.

While that's not meant to approve or condone poor behaviour here, or anywhere else on the Internet, some people DO turn into another sort of critter when shrouded in the cloak of anonimity of the Internet. And can often spout venom from their fingertips (via a keyboard) that they would never express verbally. And alias e-mail addresses (such as ARRL.org, Hotmail.com, yahoo.com, etc.) only add an additional layer of anonimity; which some choose to use to hide their identity so that they can be offensive (or worse) without being traced.

It may not be the way it SHOULD be, but it is the way it is, and unfortunately, the way our society seems to function and accept today.

WA9SVD

01-31-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,12:44)]Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Jan. 31 2007,12:42)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,12:39)]I have seen many remarks that QRZ is not ham radio.
what I would like to see is why you feel this way.
I don't see very many typing drunk in these forums, nor do I hear the incessant QRM from various tape-players, mic-scratchers and other higher forms of life ...
I have seen many post that made me wounder if they were sober.
I agree; there are more than a few comments made that are apparently "P.U.I."

(Posted Under the Influence.)

But then again, we hear the same on the air, including 75 Meters.

ab8ma

01-31-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ Jan. 31 2007,19:42)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,12:39)]I have seen many remarks that QRZ is not ham radio.
what I would like to see is why you feel this way.
I don't see very many typing drunk in these forums, ...
That's because I keep my lens covered. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Seriously, QRZ is not HAM RADIO.

QRZ does not care about sunspots, greyline, or propogation in general. QRZ does not care what the muf is at any particular time.

etc, etc.

KD6NIG

01-31-2007, 09:06 PM

I think there is a pretty simple definition:

Ham Radio.

The title itself includes one very important item-a radio.

You need a radio to talk on ham radio.

You don't need a radio to talk on QRZ.

Now, now, before everyone chimes in about echolink computer to computer contacts, thats all based on opinion. I think if there is a radio(s) involved, then its ham radio and obviously would come under the purview of the FCC.

The internet indirectly also comes under the purview of the FCC since many providers are directly or indirectly governed by the FCC (at least in america). But in a different manner.

I think the defining quality is the RF. Except for wireless internet, of course http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

But your opinion will probably vary http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

KL1ZB

01-31-2007, 09:11 PM

wb7dmx you are 100% right. A lot of new/soon to be hams come to qrz because of the great online practice tests and to ask questions. So, in a way the qrz forums(in my opinion) could be very damaging to ham radio in general.

KE5FRF

01-31-2007, 09:13 PM

Well, a club meeting of amateurs in a local town is not ham radio either, but it certainly is an activity that radio amateurs partake in. Building a kit project is not ham radio. It is an activity that pertains to ham radio, but it is not ham radio. Hamfests are not ham radio, but they are a gathering of people of similar interests to trade goods related to ham radio.

No, the interent is NOT ham radio. I don't think anyone thinks it is. When I have an "eyeball QSO" with a friend I met on ham radio, I don't think it "is ham radio" either.

I don't even know where this silly statement comes from. I don't know of anyone who thinks they are using ham radio when they are browsing QRZ.com.

Oh, I know where it comes from. It comes from the anti-VoIP as a strawman to convince people that linking radios via the internet is bad. To each his own.

N2RJ

01-31-2007, 09:13 PM

QRZ is not ham radio the hobby in and of itself.

Rather, it is a tool meant to enhance the hobby.

However, like most online forums it seems to be the home of flamewars and one upmanship.

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 09:38 PM

well I believe that QRZ could be a big benefit to ham radio.
there is the practice test that is a free service to everyone and also is a big benefit to any one wanting to learn about ham radio.

also these forums could be used better in the training and teaching of the theory behind the testing objectives
and the fellowship of the ham community.

we as hams have the power here to make it what ever we want it to be.
so why not use it to the best advantage we can for the betterment of the hobby ?

ky5u

01-31-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,13:10)]so then, which would prefer,
QRZ to be more like on the air conversations,

or on the air conversations to be more like QRZ.
Neither. They should stay different.

ky5u

01-31-2007, 09:54 PM

Are hard to read messages with bad spelling on QRZ the same as QRM and mike scratching on Ham Radio?

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 31 2007,14:53)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,13:10)]so then, which would prefer,
QRZ to be more like on the air conversations,

or on the air conversations to be more like QRZ.
Neither. #They should stay different.
interesting
but why ?

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 31 2007,14:54)]Are hard to read messages with bad spelling on QRZ the same as QRM and mike scratching on Ham Radio?
no
I think that is apples to oranges comparison

wv6z

01-31-2007, 10:22 PM

Fellow SKCCer, QRZ is almost (but not completely) the same as amateur radio. For the most part it is all who are hammies chatting via a message forum about amateur radio, amateur radio related topics or usually about the same stuff that we would discuss via radio. There are pirates here, just as there are pirates on the bands as well, in a sense. I am sure that for many, it has been the alternative to getting on the air and for others it has been no doubt a great aid to getting back on the air.

One could go so far as to argue that Fred is the Riley equivalent and the moderators are OO equivalents that are very much like their on the air counterparts...... those who are sharp witted, helpful, courteous and perform a useful service as well as those who are hateful, counterproductive and may not be able to change their Depends without the assistance of others.

Other than those similarities though, it is still an unlicensed internet forum where Fred doesn't even necessarily require you to have a license or to have passed a test to participate. So is THIS amateur radio? For me, absolutely not, not even close. Nice subject and lots of food for thought though. All in all, based upon your replies to responses on this thread you have started, a very good and rather good fun troll indeed. For that, you win the twin trolls award! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/tailedguys.jpg

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Jan. 31 2007,15:22)]Fellow SKCCer, QRZ is almost (but not completely) the same as amateur radio. For the most part it is all who are hammies chatting via a message forum about amateur radio, amateur radio related topics or usually about the same stuff that we would discuss via radio. There are pirates here, just as there are pirates on the bands as well, in a sense. I am sure that for many, it has been the alternative to getting on the air and for others it has been no doubt a great aid to getting back on the air.

One could go so far as to argue that Fred is the Riley equivalent and the moderators are OO equivalents that are very much like their on the air counterparts...... those who are sharp witted, helpful, courteous and perform a useful service as well as those who are hateful, counterproductive and may not be able to change their Depends without the assistance of others.

Other than those similarities though, it is still an unlicensed internet forum where Fred doesn't even necessarily require you to have a license or to have passed a test to participate. So is THIS amateur radio? For me, absolutely not, not even close. Nice subject and lots of food for thought though. All in all, based upon your replies to responses on this thread you have started, a very good and rather good fun troll indeed. For that, you win the twin trolls award! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/tailedguys.jpg
well thank you very much.
I will treasure that forever.

wv6z

01-31-2007, 10:35 PM

I only save them for special cases Bobby, so consider yourself blessed. Who know, there is a very good chance that I am your long lost evil twin brother too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Jan. 31 2007,15:35)]I only save them for special cases Bobby, so consider yourself blessed. Who know, there is a very good chance that I am your long lost evil twin brother too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I am going to copy / past this into a real certificate as a award and print it, then frame it.

n0iu

01-31-2007, 11:12 PM

From WB7DMX's bio:

I was first licenes as a novice in 1973, and advanced the next year. been into radio and electronics from 8 yr old. retired now and enjoy all bands and all modes. also have been a instructor for arrl teaching at a local school in sandpoint idaho night school.
I have the certifications for the folowing: A+ certified. network + certified. server + certified. jurneyman electrician. certified electronic technician. I specilized in industerial electronics and automation plus robotics. certified welder."

I hate to sound like Frank "Grimey" Grimes on The Simpsons, but how on earth were you ever able to earn a living much less earn any of these certifications with your level of understanding of English grammar and spelling?

If you were "a instructor" for the "arrl", I can understand why some people think that the qualifications for an amateur radio license are being dumbed down!

Scott NØIU

wb7dmx

01-31-2007, 11:39 PM

grammar and spelling was not a requirement for any of my careers, and I don't bother to edit much.

but if this bothers you, I suppose I could edit it.

does it meet your approval now ?

ab8ma

01-31-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote[/b] (KL1ZB @ Jan. 31 2007,21:11)]wb7dmx you are 100% right. A lot of new/soon to be hams come to qrz because of the great online practice tests and to ask questions. So, in a way the qrz forums(in my opinion) could be very damaging to ham radio in general.
Indeed. I agree.

QRZ hurts ham radio because there are a lot of people here.

Some of these people compose posts which are offensive, because of other posts which were not enlightening to the original poster.

Then there are those who read these posts, because there are a lot of people here.

Then there are people who decide to exit the hobby because of what they read here.

Did I mention that there were a lot of people here?

Folks, This is not radio. Please do not confuse this with radio. Radio is the miracle of this planet's magnetic fields and the fact that unlike Mars, we have one.

Would any of us wish the conditions on Mars. The very face of no magnetic fields there was the reason for no air. It was all blown off by the solar winds which our own magnetic fields protect us and our radios from.

But I digress.

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 31 2007,16:12)]From WB7DMX's bio:

I was first licenes as a novice in 1973, and advanced the next year. been into radio and electronics from 8 yr old. retired now and enjoy all bands and all modes. also have been a instructor for arrl teaching at a local school in sandpoint idaho night school.
I have the certifications for the folowing: A+ certified. network + certified. server + certified. jurneyman electrician. certified electronic technician. I specilized in industerial electronics and automation plus robotics. certified welder."

I hate to sound like Frank "Grimey" Grimes on The Simpsons, but how on earth were you ever able to earn a living much less earn any of these certifications with your level of understanding of English grammar and spelling?

If you were "a instructor" for the "arrl", I can understand why some people think that the qualifications for an amateur radio license are being dumbed down!

Scott NØIU
thank you for pointing out my discrepancies.

I have had a very frutiful working career, and am now enjoying the benifits of hard work and education.

AG3Y

02-01-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Jan. 31 2007,19:46)]Quote[/b] (KL1ZB @ Jan. 31 2007,21:11)]wb7dmx you are 100% right. A lot of new/soon to be hams come to qrz because of the great online practice tests and to ask questions. So, in a way the qrz forums(in my opinion) could be very damaging to ham radio in general.
Indeed. I agree.

QRZ hurts ham radio because there are a lot of people here.

Some of these people compose posts which are offensive, because of other posts which were not enlightening to the original poster.

Then there are those who read these posts, because there are a lot of people here.

Then there are people who decide to exit the hobby because of what they read here.

Did I mention that there were a lot of people here?

Folks, This is not radio. Please do not confuse this with radio. Radio is the miracle of this planet's magnetic fields and the fact that unlike Mars, we have one.

Would any of us wish the conditions on Mars. The very face of no magnetic fields there was the reason for no air. It was all blown off by the solar winds which our own magnetic fields protect us and our radios from.

But I digress.
I was going to turn this into a "what will happen when the bands start to improve, and the world hears what has happened to ham radio in the good ole U S or A ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif" discussion, but I think it best not to. After all, there are plenty of other threads on that subject, the way it is!

However, I really DO wonder what the rest of the world thinks about U.S. hams when they read some of the threads here on QRZ.COM. After all, as you said, there are a LOT OF PEOPLE out there, looking over our shoulders as we read, react, and write our responses on this forum!

73, Jim

WA9SVD

02-01-2007, 02:01 AM

Quote[/b] (KL1ZB @ Jan. 31 2007,14:11)]wb7dmx you are 100% right. A lot of new/soon to be hams come to qrz because of the great online practice tests and to ask questions. So, in a way the qrz forums(in my opinion) could be very damaging to ham radio in general.
All the more reason to emphasize that QRZ (or eHam, or any other site) is NOT Amateur Radio!!!

Repeat it is NOT Amateur Radio!

It is ABOUT Amateur Radio, and the posts are by only a small percentage of real Hams.

It IS the Internet. The two are NOT the same, and that distinction needs to be stressed time and again.

Added:

I would suggest, then that the original poster (or someone else) start his/her own web site, market and promote it to be more popular than QRZ or eHam, and then he/she can impose whatever criteria/standards of conduct and content he/she deems appropriate. He/she that pays the bills can call the shots. Derogatory or negative comments or posts could be summarily expunged.

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Jan. 31 2007,19:01)]Quote[/b] (KL1ZB @ Jan. 31 2007,14:11)]wb7dmx you are 100% right. A lot of new/soon to be hams come to qrz because of the great online practice tests and to ask questions. So, in a way the qrz forums(in my opinion) could be very damaging to ham radio in general.
All the more reason to emphasize that QRZ (or eHam, or any other site) is NOT Amateur Radio!!!

# #Repeat it is NOT Amateur Radio!

# #It is ABOUT Amateur Radio, and the posts are by only a small percentage of real Hams.

It IS the Internet. #The two are NOT the same, and that distinction needs to be stressed time and again.
yep you are so correct

W5HTW

02-01-2007, 02:11 AM

Seems simple to me.

1. If you and I get on our cell phones and talk about ham radio, is that ham radio? Or is it cell phone?

2. If we pop the cap on a couple of beers and chat on the back steps, is that ham radio, even if we are discusing our Collins S-Lines? Or is it back porch chat?

3. If we get on CB channel 14 and chat about ham radio, is that ham radio? What about on FRS, or GMRS, or marine radio?

Ham radio is ON ham radio. This hyar ole QRZie thingie is on the internet! Ain't gots no license to operate no internet.

Ed

WA9SVD

02-01-2007, 02:21 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Jan. 31 2007,19:11)]Seems simple to me.
This hyar ole QRZie thingie is on the internet! Ain't gots no license to operate no internet.

Ed
Yo ain't got no license thingie for this he'ar Internet? OOOH, the QRZ Police is gonna get you fer sher! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Sheesh. Glad this isn't all going out over the air, even on 75 Meters. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

wv6z

02-01-2007, 02:38 AM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Jan. 30 2007,20:21)]Glad this isn't all going out over the air, even on 75 Meters. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Oh but it is, all day, every day, 24 hours per day.

KI4ITV

02-01-2007, 05:48 AM

Why don't we just rename it EchoZed, require proof of active license to post, and then it will be amateur radio.
Right?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote[/b] (KI4ITV @ Jan. 31 2007,22:48)]Why don't we just rename it EchoZed, require proof of active license to post, and then it will be amateur radio.
Right?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
only if you wanted to look at it that way.

AE6IP

02-01-2007, 08:31 AM

Of course it's ham radio. Dayton is ham radio. Going to the local club meeting is ham radio. The local hamfest is ham radio. Putting up a tower; mentoring a new ham; being a VE; building gear; filling out QSL cards; and, yes, even operating, are all ham radio.

This hobby is the only one I participate in where anyone would deny that talking about the hobby is part of the hobby, and that's all forums are, an opportuntity to talk about the hobby.

K0HWY

02-01-2007, 08:42 AM

One poster said it in another thread; something to the effect of ham radio being a mirror of society. Perhaps you won't hear some of the things said here on the air. But as I see it, ham radio is not strictly on the air. Ham radio is a hobby and a service. But more importantly, it's people. The people who make up the ham radio world mirror society. The ideas and attitudes expressed on this board are indicative of who we really are. The difference between QRZ and being on the air is simply that we are all more open and uninhibited in this forum. ORZ is a very real indicator of who we are.

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Feb. 01 2007,01:31)]Of course it's ham radio. Dayton is ham radio. Going to the local club meeting is ham radio. The local hamfest is ham radio. Putting up a tower; mentoring a new ham; being a VE; building gear; filling out QSL cards; and, yes, even operating, are all ham radio.

This hobby is the only one I participate in where anyone would deny that talking about the hobby is part of the hobby, and that's all forums are, an opportuntity to talk about the hobby.
thank you:
I agree with you 100%.
it is all ham radio

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Feb. 01 2007,01:42)]One poster said it in another thread; something to the effect of ham radio being a mirror of society. Perhaps you won't hear some of the things said here on the air. But as I see it, ham radio is not strictly on the air. Ham radio is a hobby and a service. But more importantly, it's people. The people who make up the ham radio world mirror society. The ideas and attitudes expressed on this board are indicative of who we really are. The difference between QRZ and being on the air is simply that we are all more open and uninhibited in this forum. ORZ is a very real indicator of who we are.
yes:
and we conduct ourselves here the same as if we were on the radio.
at least we should.

well some of us anyway

some how this ain't comming out right.

K0HWY

02-01-2007, 09:26 AM

Some of it is definitely concerning. I've been inactive for quite sometime. Walking back in, I hardly recognized the service. It's definitely changed and not simply from a technological standpoint. The attitudes of today's hams are different. On the one hand, one might argue that this simply reflects who we are as a society. Perhaps it was just a naive mis-perception, but it seemed as if amateur radio operators in the past had higher acceptance standards than those of general society. Whether or not that's true is immaterial now. It's clear that the amateur society and society in general are indeed carbon copies of each each other today. Which brings us to the issue of personal conduct. What is to be termed as acceptable behavior among today's ham radio operators? If we are to buy into the idea that we are representative of general society, almost anything is acceptable. Isn't that pretty much what we're seeing?

KI4NGN

02-01-2007, 10:01 AM

The primary purpose of ham radio is the real-time communications between two or more ham radio operators using RF technology transmitted on ham radio frequencies.

First and foremost, QRZ is not real-time.

Second, QRZ is not a radio communication, but a sophisticated bulletin board accessed via the Internet. Don't confuse it with chat rooms because it's not that either, but even if it was a chat room, it would still not be ham radio...it would be a chat room.

Yes, ham radio does support store and forward message systems. However those systems are not ham radio, only the means of communicating the data is ham radio. The means of communicating QRZ data is the Internet.

The same type of communication we have with QRZ was supported before the Internet via telephone connections to bulletin boards.

QRZ is not ham radio any more than bulletin boards of the past were ham radio.

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Feb. 01 2007,02:26)]Some of it is definitely concerning. I've been inactive for quite sometime. Walking back in, I hardly recognized the service. It's definitely changed and not simply from a technological standpoint. The attitudes of today's hams are different. On the one hand, one might argue that this simply reflects who we are as a society. Perhaps it was just a naive mis-perception, but it seemed as if amateur radio operators in the past had higher acceptance standards than those of general society. Whether or not that's true is immaterial now. It's clear that the amateur society and society in general are indeed carbon copies of each each other today. Which brings us to the issue of personal conduct. What is to be termed as acceptable behavior among today's ham radio operators? If we are to buy into the idea that we are representative of general society, almost anything is acceptable. Isn't that pretty much what we're seeing?
that my dear sir is the whole point I am trying to get across to everyone. and I agree with you 100%.

I have been listening to ham radio for 50 years now and have seen the same thing as you.
the attitude of many has changed so much.

many of the things that are considered the norm today was unacceptable yester year.
I at one time was proud to say I was a ham radio operator.
today I sometimes wonder if I can still say that.

everything today has been changing so fast that I am not sure that I even like the direction things are going, and I am not just refering to ham radio.

KC9JIQ

02-01-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,12:39)]I have seen many remarks that QRZ is not ham radio.
what I would like to see is why you feel this way.

QRZ is as much ham radio as a radio its self. and should be viewed such.
QRZ is not ham radio, it is a private database, and many hams don't like their information in private databases, and have requested removal from the QRZ database.(it used to give an error, "not in database" but now Fred gives a link to the FCC site, eh?) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

ky5u

02-01-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,14:57)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 31 2007,14:54)]Are hard to read messages with bad spelling on QRZ the same as QRM and mike scratching on Ham Radio?
no
I think that is apples to oranges comparison
Which are you, the apple or the orange? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 01 2007,05:03)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Jan. 31 2007,14:57)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 31 2007,14:54)]Are hard to read messages with bad spelling on QRZ the same as QRM and mike scratching on Ham Radio?
no
I think that is apples to oranges comparison
Which are you, the apple or the orange? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
apples because I like appel pie.

ky5u

02-01-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,04:45)]that my dear sir is the whole point I am trying to get across to everyone. and I agree with you 100%.

I have been listening to ham radio for 50 years now and have seen the same thing as you.
the attitude of many has changed so much.

many of the things that are considered the norm today was unacceptable yester year.
I at one time was proud to say I was a ham radio operator.
today I sometimes wonder if I can still say that.

everything today has been changing so fast that I am not sure that I even like the direction things are going, and I am not just refering to ham radio.
And your insistence that QRZ and Ham Radio are the same does not help your point. QRZ is the place to call out the amateurs who trash the bands, not on the air. Here's the place we can discuss touchy topics and keep the squabbles off the air.

You convince people the two are the same, and you'll see more pimply faced Internet geek behavior on AR. So if you don't like what you hear on the air, don't make it worse.

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 12:36 PM

I don't feel that I am trying to convince anyone of anything, just expressing my thoughts on here,
it all just my personal opinion.

sometimes I have diffculity expressing myself so that others understand where I am comming from.

N5PVL

02-01-2007, 12:46 PM

Unfortunately the hobby is now riddled with individuals who cannot differentiate between amateur radio and the internet, in some cases going so far as to try to eliminate or deny any division or difference between the two.

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Feb. 01 2007,05:46)]Unfortunately the hobby is now riddled with individuals who cannot differentiate between amateur radio and the internet, in some cases going so far as to try to eliminate or deny any division or difference between the two.
slam, bang, now that hurt.

I am well aware of the differance.

I am not the normal person on the internet.

I use the internet soley for ordering parts from newegg, mouser, newark, ect.
I do my banking with it.
I do e-mail and instant messaging.

and there is only two web sight forums I log into,
QRZ, and PCMECH.

there are the too hobbies I have and these two sights are the best ones that relate to my two hobbies.

everything else on the internet is just a way to find information, I have no other use for the internet.

there has only been one person that posted on this thread that made a personal attact on me, and I thanked him for it rather than to attact back as others would have.

this to me is another tool of ham radio as pcmech is a tool in computer repair.

KE5FRF

02-01-2007, 01:09 PM

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Feb. 01 2007,07:46)]Unfortunately the hobby is now riddled with individuals who cannot differentiate between amateur radio and the internet, in some cases going so far as to try to eliminate or deny any division or difference between the two.
Who are these people? What is it they are saying that makes someone think they believe the internet and ham radio are one in the same?

KI4NGN

02-01-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,04:45)]Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Feb. 01 2007,02:26)]Some of it is definitely concerning. I've been inactive for quite sometime. Walking back in, I hardly recognized the service. It's definitely changed and not simply from a technological standpoint. The attitudes of today's hams are different. On the one hand, one might argue that this simply reflects who we are as a society. Perhaps it was just a naive mis-perception, but it seemed as if amateur radio operators in the past had higher acceptance standards than those of general society. Whether or not that's true is immaterial now. It's clear that the amateur society and society in general are indeed carbon copies of each each other today. Which brings us to the issue of personal conduct. What is to be termed as acceptable behavior among today's ham radio operators? If we are to buy into the idea that we are representative of general society, almost anything is acceptable. Isn't that pretty much what we're seeing?
that my dear sir is the whole point I am trying to get across to everyone. and I agree with you 100%.

I have been listening to ham radio for 50 years now and have seen the same thing as you.
the attitude of many has changed so much.

many of the things that are considered the norm today was unacceptable yester year.
I at one time was proud to say I was a ham radio operator.
today I sometimes wonder if I can still say that.

everything today has been changing so fast that I am not sure that I even like the direction things are going, and I am not just refering to ham radio.
And many of the things that were considered the norm in yester-year are unacceptable now.

Yes, things change; People, attitudes, laws, technology... everything changes.

Some view the changes for the better, some for the worse.

Some focus on the better changes, some focus on the worst changes.

The glass is half empty, the glass is half full, or the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Sorry if you are no longer proud to be a ham radio operator.

I was when I got my first license in 68-69, and I am just as proud when I again became licensed a little over a year ago.

This site is not ham radio.

Mike

ky5u

02-01-2007, 04:18 PM

Expressed visually...

WZ4I

02-01-2007, 04:52 PM

W5HTW has said it best..

RADIO

There is a lot of confusion over radio, ham radio, computers, washing machines, iPods, toasters, bumper jacks, and dogs with curly tails. Let's see if we can help.

Kenwood TS-520, with dipole: Ham radio
Icom 756 Pro with beam on 70 foot tower: Ham radio
Computer: Not ham radio.
Laser printer: Not ham radio
Garage door opener: Radio. Not ham radio
Cordless phone: Radio. Not ham radio.
Collins S-Line: Ham radio.
Microwave oven: Radio. Not ham radio.
Wireless internet: Radio. Not ham radio.
Internet: Not radio, not ham radio.
Audiovox CDM4500: Cell phone. Radio. Not ham radio.
Police communications unit: Radio. Not ham radio.
Fireman with HT on belt: Radio. Not ham radio.
VCR remote: Not radio. Not ham radio. It is optical. However, under the rules by some here, since it communicates it is ham radio. No. Not ham radio. Again. Not ham radio.
Toaster: Not ham radio. Not radio.
Wireless toaster: Radio? Not ham radio.
Wireless internet toaster: Radio? Not ham radio.
Laptop: Not radio, not ham radio.
Laptop cat: Not radio, not ham radio.
CB set: Radio. Not ham radio.

HAM goes with EGGS, GRITS, or maybe MUSTARD and BREAD.
"Ham" goes with eggs, grits, or maybe mustard and bread.

"Ham radio" goes with nothing but radios and antennas meant for amateur radio operating.

HAM does not stand for anything. (Except meat to use with EGGS)

Our hobby is "ham radio." Or "amateur radio."

Wireless internet devices are devices used to allow computers to talk to other computers. They are not ham radio. BPL is not ham radio. DSL is not ham radio. Satellite TV is not ham radio.

IMPORTANT POINT:
Computers may be used to assist in ham radio. Ham radio should NOT be used to assist in computers.

Ham radio is not a means to some other hobby. It is a hobby in itself. Other things, such as computers, or the internet, may be used in assisting ham radio, in helping find information about ham radio equipment, operators, rules, procedures.

The internet is not ham radio. Ham radio is not the internet. Those interested in the internet are fine, far as I am concerned. Those who like fishing are also fine. The goal of ham radio, though, is to be interested in ham radio.

Ham radio is not a utility communications service. It is not Ma Bell, Junior Bell, Taco Bell or Liberty Bell.

Things you can operate without a ham radio license:

CB, cordless phone, TV, Nextel, marine radio, aircraft radio, garage door opener, computer, cat, kitchen sink, VCR, motor vehicle, farm tractor, electric toothbrush. MURS, FRS, GMRS, Public Safety radio, AM broadcast station, Television station, taxi radio, laser printer, wireless internet link, Part 15 radio, laptop computer, inkjet printer, microwave oven, wired telephone.

Things you need a ham radio license to operate:

Ham radio.

Things you need a CB license to operate:

(I'm thinking. Hang in there.)

Things you can do with a ham radio license:

Operate ham radio

Things you can do without a ham radio license:

Virtually anything else. Be a fireman, be a cop, get married, drive a tractor, bale alfalfa, bail a boat, drive a truck - I'm sure you can think of more.

Again, there is no HAM. Computers are not ham radio. The internet is not ham radio. Ham radio is not a utility; it is not a cell phone, a police radio, or a garage door opener.

If you are a ham radio operator, welcome! If you are an internet operator, that's fine, do it on the internet. If you are a HAM, change and be a "ham."

kf4vgx

02-01-2007, 05:36 PM

Well now , seems you have caught yourself quite a few with this one http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

http://www.haverodwilltravel.com/images/Trolling%202.jpg http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

K7JBQ

02-01-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Jan. 31 2007,14:13)]Building a kit project is not ham radio. It is an activity that pertains to ham radio, but it is not ham radio.
Uh, Heath...

Ever thought of producing a line of kits. If so, I can think of a great name.

73,
Bill

kn4ds

02-01-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote[/b] (WZ4I @ Feb. 01 2007,11:52)]Ham radio is not a utility communications service. It is not Ma Bell, Junior Bell, Taco Bell or Liberty Bell.
Which should not be construed to mean there no ding-a-ling ham operators.

k7mh

02-01-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote[/b] ]QRZ is as much ham radio as a radio its self. and should be viewed such.

That quite simply has to be the biggest single dumba** comment I have ever read in anything that is readable ABOUT ham radio and that includes old 73 magazine editorials!

Pretty good troll though!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote[/b] (k7mh @ Feb. 01 2007,11:03)]Quote[/b] ]QRZ is as much ham radio as a radio its self. and should be viewed such.

That quite simply has to be the biggest single dumba** comment I have ever read in anything that is readable ABOUT ham radio and that includes old 73 magazine editorials!

Pretty good troll though!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
that may be true:
but you still hams communicating with each other and any one can view everything that is said. so why not act like real hams.

the alternative is to act like cbers and continue to slam one another, ridicule each other, and use words that imply that the other guy is a idiot just because he asked a simple question.

come on guys you all know what I am talking about.

there sure are some interesting thoughts here.

n0iu

02-01-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,06:24)]...and use words that imply that the other guy is a idiot just because he asked a simple question.
I don't think anyone "implied" anything!

KE5FRF

02-01-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote[/b] (WZ4I @ Feb. 01 2007,11:52)]W5HTW has said it best..

RADIO

There is a lot of confusion over radio, ham radio, computers, washing machines, iPods, toasters, bumper jacks, and dogs with curly tails. # Let's see if we can help.

Kenwood TS-520, with dipole: Ham radio
Icom 756 Pro with beam on 70 foot tower: Ham radio
Computer: Not ham radio. #
Laser printer: Not ham radio
Garage door opener: Radio. #Not ham radio
Cordless phone: Radio. #Not ham radio.
Collins S-Line: Ham radio. #
Microwave oven: Radio. #Not ham radio.
Wireless internet: Radio. #Not ham radio.
Internet: Not radio, not ham radio.
Audiovox CDM4500: Cell phone. Radio. #Not ham radio.
Police communications unit: Radio. #Not ham radio.
Fireman with HT on belt: Radio. #Not ham radio.
VCR remote: Not radio. #Not ham radio. #It is optical. #However, under the rules by some here, since it communicates it is ham radio. #No. #Not ham radio. #Again. #Not ham radio.
Toaster: Not ham radio. Not radio.
Wireless toaster: Radio? #Not ham radio.
Wireless internet toaster: Radio? #Not ham radio.
Laptop: Not radio, not ham radio.
Laptop cat: Not radio, not ham radio.
CB set: Radio. #Not ham radio. #

HAM goes with EGGS, GRITS, or maybe MUSTARD and BREAD.
"Ham" goes with eggs, grits, or maybe mustard and bread.

"Ham radio" goes with nothing but radios and antennas meant for amateur radio operating.

HAM does not stand for anything. #(Except meat to use with EGGS) #

Our hobby is "ham radio." #Or "amateur radio."

Wireless internet devices are devices used to allow computers to talk to other computers. #They are not ham radio. # BPL is not ham radio. #DSL is not ham radio. #Satellite TV is not ham radio.

IMPORTANT POINT: #
Computers may be used to assist in ham radio. #Ham radio should NOT be used to assist in computers. #

Ham radio is not a means to some other hobby. #It is a hobby in itself. #Other things, such as computers, or the internet, may be used in assisting ham radio, in helping find information about ham radio equipment, operators, rules, procedures. # #

The internet is not ham radio. #Ham radio is not the internet. #Those interested in the internet are fine, far as I am concerned. #Those who like fishing are also fine. #The goal of ham radio, though, is to be interested in ham radio. #

Ham radio is not a utility communications service. #It is not Ma Bell, Junior Bell, Taco Bell or Liberty Bell. #

Things you can operate without a ham radio license:

CB, cordless phone, TV, Nextel, marine radio, aircraft radio, garage door opener, computer, #cat, kitchen sink, VCR, motor vehicle, farm tractor, electric toothbrush. MURS, FRS, GMRS, Public Safety radio, AM broadcast station, Television station, taxi radio, laser printer, wireless internet link, Part 15 radio, laptop computer, inkjet printer, microwave oven, wired telephone.

Things you need a ham radio license to operate:

Ham radio.

Things you need a CB license to operate:

(I'm thinking. #Hang in there.)

Things you can do with a ham radio license:

Operate ham radio

Things you can do without a ham radio license:

Virtually anything else. #Be a fireman, be a cop, get married, drive a tractor, bale alfalfa, bail a boat, drive a truck - I'm sure you can think of more.

Again, there is no HAM. #Computers are not ham radio. #The internet is not ham radio. # Ham radio is not a utility; it is not a cell phone, a police radio, or a garage door opener.

If you are a ham radio operator, welcome! # If you are an internet operator, that's fine, do it on the internet. #If you are a HAM, change and be a "ham."
Aha, but here come some more you didn't include:

J-38 telegraph key: not radio, not ham radio
QST magazine: not radio, not ham radio
QSL card: not radio, not ham radio
Mechanical RTTY gear: not radio, not ham radio
Riglblaster™ sound card interface: not radio, not ham radio
Microsoft™ Power Point© software: not radio, not ham radio

But all of these things can by used by ham radio operators to suppliment or complement their radio hobby.

J-38 telegraph key: not radio, not ham radio
But can be used to on-off key a radio
QST magazind: not radio, not ham radio
But can be used to keep up to date about radio hobby
QSL card: not radio, not ham radio
But is a nice greeting between people who use ham radio
Mechanical RTTY gear: not radio, not ham radio
Another way to add intelligence to a radio signal
Riglblaster™ sound card interface: not radio, not ham radio
A modern way to interface a radio with a digital device
Microsoft™ Power Point© software: not radio, not ham radio
Don't know why I added this one, but it is a good teaching aid for elmering about ham radio

And lastly: Internet...not radio, not ham radio

...But in many ways can enhance and further the operation of a ham radio by providing quick access to information, DXspotting, forums of discussion, VoIP linking of radios, archives of logbooks, training material, callsign databases.
Ham radio with internet: Ham radio in 2007
Ham radio without internet: History.

k7mh

02-01-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote[/b] ]so why not act like real hams.

Ok here ya go;

"You are 5 and 9, thanks for the new troll, 73". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

That should cover it aside of a qsl! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Actually, probably the big difference here is that a post is really an invitation for anyone to reply for all time to come (I.E. the "test" post that has been going on for ages here). So you will get the smarta** comments like my previous one (I can't help it. I come by a smart mouth kinda natural like).

On the air, there is no invitation to jump in and when the conversation is done and people sign off, there is no record of it to bring a comment to. That's the real time thing. In packet on BBS systens it is more like this though.

We are all here 'cause the bands are kinda dead these days so we are like bored children sometimes. I must admit that is it rather entertaining here and some of the replies in these threads have had me rolling on the floor!

Thre was one recent post about how someone just had too hard of a time with Morse to learn it etc. The post was so filled with misspelled words you couldn't believe it! WELL NO WONDER!!! I just about died when I read it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
And yes you should edit your text and correct the spelling in your posts or bio that is with your callsign.
You won't be taken very seriously otherwise. It does make a good case for lack of attending to detail in things we do. It makes your argument or point weaker. It could make #me a little afraid of your weld joints! I have seen employment applications where the applicant misspelled his own name! That's not who I want to hire!!
We all misspell words on occasion but when a posting is peppered with them it is pretty pathetic. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

wb7dmx

02-01-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Feb. 01 2007,11:51)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,06:24)]...and use words that imply that the other guy is a idiot just because he asked a simple question.
I don't think anyone "implied" anything!
I have been reading the threads #on this sight for some time.
and believe me there has been many times that has happened, and I thought it was rather bad taste.

this thread has been very interesting and I did enjoy it very much.
thank you all for your comments.

I am not very good on a keyboard and don't always read what ends up on the screen, I know its no excuse but it just happens some times.
my fingers just don't hit the keys I am thinking of.
its one skill I have never learned yet.

as for my welds, that was many years ago, today I can't see very good when I have the helmet on. my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.

W4HAY

02-02-2007, 03:20 PM

I'm not all that familiar with what goes on in the phone sub-bands, but as for CW, the ops I talk with are more interested in discussing the technical aspects (equipment performance, propagation, homebrewing, etc. ) and operating techniques than those on the internet are.

On-the-air ops also tend to be more mature -- chronologically, mentally, and emotionally. Those under 40 make up a very small percentage of my QSOs.

WA9SVD

02-02-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 01 2007,11:52)][quote=WZ4I,Feb. 01 2007,11:52]W5HTW has said it best..

But all of these things can by used by ham radio operators to suppliment or complement their radio hobby.

J-38 telegraph key: not radio, not ham radio
But can be used to on-off key a radio
QST magazind: not radio, not ham radio
But can be used to keep up to date about radio hobby
QSL card: not radio, not ham radio
But is a nice greeting between people who use ham radio
Mechanical RTTY gear: not radio, not ham radio
Another way to add intelligence to a radio signal
Riglblaster™ sound card interface: not radio, not ham radio
A modern way to interface a radio with a digital device
Microsoft™ Power Point© software: not radio, not ham radio
Don't know why I added this one, but it is a good teaching aid for elmering about ham radio

And lastly: Internet...not radio, not ham radio

...But in many ways can enhance and further the operation of a ham radio by providing quick access to information, DXspotting, forums of discussion, VoIP linking of radios, archives of logbooks, training material, callsign databases.
Ham radio with internet: Ham radio in 2007
Ham radio without internet: History.
AHA? i'm not so sure; your logic fails me:

Diehard Marine/deep cycle battery? NOT radio , NOT Amateur (Ham, HAM, or any other) radio. BUT it can be used BY such, even if not an inherent PART of radio.
Microphone: Radio, MAYBE. Ham Radio? not necessarily, but often a useful adjunct
Transmitter: Radio: Certainly. Ham Radio: Only on certain frequencies. Otherwise, another licensed service, (broadcast, Public Service, legitimate unlicensed Public Service such as FRS.) Or an illegal operation. BUT NOT implicitly or specifically Amateur Radio.

The fact that something CAN be used in Amateur Radio doesn't make it a PART of Amateur Radio. And that includes the Internet.
Don't confuse the use of physical items with Amateur Radio itself.

Actually, you said it best:

"Ham Radio
WITH Internet: Ham Radio in 2007.

The operative word is WITH. YES, the Internet, and many other things can supplement and even enhance Amateur Radio, but they are not inherent or a part of Amateur Radio itself.

I DO take exception to one comment:

"Amateur Radio without Internet: History."

Amateur Radio has existed and flourished quite well WITHOUT the Internet for almost a century (or is it more?) and CAN function quite well without the Internet for even the unforseeable future. It IS direct (OK, sometimes indirect) communication between Amateur Radio operators via RADIO.
(Maybe that's one of the problems with the term "Ham (HAM, etc.) Operator. It doesn't emphasize the more accurate "Amateur RADIO Operator." It's not "Internet" Operator.)

n0iu

02-02-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,10:02)]I am not very good on a keyboard and don't always read what ends up on the screen, I know its no excuse but it just happens some times.
my fingers just don't hit the keys I am thinking of.
its one skill I have never learned yet.
You know, I should just let this drop...

WB7DMX claims to have the following computer certifications:
A+
Network +
Server +

Now I suppose he could have gone out and got these certifications just because he is interested in computers, but most people get them to advance their career.

Computers, at least at the level we use them, are very stupid machines. While there have been great strides in artificial intelligence, computers don't interpret. They take things literally. They only do what you tell them to do; no more, no less. They will do exactly what you tell it to do hence the phrase, "Garbage in, garbage out." You can't just communicate with a computer in a free-form arbitrary manner, at least not if you expect any sort of useful results.

The most widely accepted user interface device for the personal computer is the keyboard. You don't have to be Mavis Beacon in order to use a computer, but accuracy counts and one must have some fairly basic keyboarding skills in order to get acceptable results.

These certification tests are given on a computer. If "my fingers just don't hit the keys I am thinking of", how is it possible you even passed these tests? It just doesn't make any sense how someone can have all these computer certifications while on the other hand have such poor keyboarding skills.

wb7dmx

02-02-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Feb. 02 2007,08:58)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,10:02)]I am not very good on a keyboard and don't always read what ends up on the screen, I know its no excuse but it just happens some times.
my fingers just don't hit the keys I am thinking of.
its one skill I have never learned yet.
You know, I should just let this drop...

WB7DMX claims to have the following computer certifications:
A+
Network +
Server +

Now I suppose he could have gone out and got these certifications just because he is interested in computers, but most people get them to advance their career.

Computers, at least at the level we use them, are very stupid machines. While there have been great strides in artificial intelligence, computers don't interpret. They take things literally. They only do what you tell them to do; no more, no less. They will do exactly what you tell it to do hence the phrase, "Garbage in, garbage out." You can't just communicate with a computer in a free-form arbitrary manner, at least not if you expect any sort of useful results.

The most widely accepted user interface device for the personal computer is the keyboard. You don't have to be Mavis Beacon in order to use a computer, but accuracy counts and one must have some fairly basic keyboarding skills in order to get acceptable results.

These certification tests are given on a computer. If "my fingers just don't hit the keys I am thinking of", how is it possible you even passed these tests? It just doesn't make any sense how someone can have all these computer certifications while on the other hand have such poor keyboarding skills.
you are again correct.

but I went to school for it.
class was cisco networking systems
2 years, full time
I could post my CompTIA certification numbers here if that would help you, and then you could call them to verify them.
I have all the paperwork, diploma's, and certificates for everything I stated.

I still have a unused scholarship that I could go back to school if I wanted to.

I won two Gold metals in state wide competition in computer and networking knowledge.

so if you feel you need any more information, please let me know

WA9SVD

02-02-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Feb. 02 2007,08:58)]Quote[/b] (wb7dmx @ Feb. 01 2007,10:02)]I am not very good on a keyboard and don't always read what ends up on the screen, I know its no excuse but it just happens some times.
my fingers just don't hit the keys I am thinking of.
its one skill I have never learned yet.
You know, I should just let this drop...

WB7DMX claims to have the following computer certifications:
A+
Network +
Server +

Now I suppose he could have gone out and got these certifications just because he is interested in computers, but most people get them to advance their career.

Computers, at least at the level we use them, are very stupid machines. While there have been great strides in artificial intelligence, computers don't interpret. They take things literally. They only do what you tell them to do; no more, no less.
Well, THAT's certainly an optimistic thought!

GIGO is a given; but sometimes GOOD INFO IN yields garbage out! (I've yet to see a case of "Garbage in, good info out!")

Computers, as you say, can not interpret information, although they CAN provide a gazillion bits of information based on our (human) input. But without (at this time) human intervention and interpretation, that information is useless, and often overwhelming.

Our (current) computers DO what we (think) we tell them to do; granted. (Sometimes that's not what's in the mind of another program, unless we wrote the software ourselves!)
But they are less than perfect in their output. (Otherwise, MicroS*** would not have to issue patches to Windoze, and Intel wouldn't have had to replace a few thousand Pentium 60 and 66 MHz processors...)
But yes, for the most part, they ARE simple, dumb machines that merely process data at a rate far superior to our own faculties. (God help us if they are ever able to do more than that!)

KE5FRF

02-02-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote[/b] (wa9svd @ Feb. 02 2007,10:50)]I DO take exception to one comment: #

"Amateur Radio without Internet: #History."

# #Amateur Radio has existed and flourished quite well WITHOUT the Internet for almost a century (or is it more?) and CAN function quite well without the Internet for even the unforseeable future. #It IS direct (OK, sometimes indirect) communication between Amateur Radio operators via RADIO. #
# #(Maybe that's one of the problems with the term "Ham (HAM, etc.) Operator. #It doesn't emphasize the more accurate "Amateur RADIO Operator." #It's not "Internet" Operator.)
Obviously, you don't understand my point.

Of course, amateur radio can exist without the internet. My HF rig is in no way connected to the internet. When I have a QSO on 14.035 Mhz with a DX CW op, I do not need the internet to exchange thoughts and conversation with the individual, and nor does he require the internet to have the chat with me. I could operate amateur radio my entire life without spending one second on an amateur radio related website, and certainly there are ops out there on this planet who have no desire to access the internet in any way, shape, or form.

My POINT, if you care to understand it, is that we can't turn back the clock. The internet is here. There are thousands upon thousands of URLs full of valuable information that an amateur radio operator can take advantage of to improve his knowledge base and to make his operating more effective. There are thousands of amateurs who contribute to the service by posting information or offering advice online. I have made a good number of friends here on QRZ that I have also chatted with on the air (CW and some phone), and because I had a little background of familiarity with that person, the QSO was just that much more enjoyable for me. The internet does MUCH to enhance the hobby, if one can learn to see it as a tool and not FEAR it or distrust it. On the same token, there is a lot of filth/junk on the internet and a lot of misinformation that should be avoided, but the good far outweighs the bad.

So, when I made the statement that amateur radio without the internet is history, I meant that it is here with us, to stay, and it won't go away. While I may or may not use the internet as a ham, thousands upon thousands most certainly will, and it is their right to do so. We can raise cane, fuss, moan, gripe, and otherwise complain about the internet all we want, but much like the new R&O from the FCC, it is a moot point because we can't change anything by griping about it. All we can do is change our own attitudes and our own behaviors both online and on the air. I myself get drawn in sometimes to "trolls" and I have been known to "troll" myself now and then, but I try to do it in good taste and humor. But ultimately, my experience as I use the internet is completely up to me and nobody else.

The internet has not changed one thing about on air operating, but it has certainly accentuated off-air aspects of the hobby, and I for one appreciate it. And while this thread is not specifically about VoIP with ham radio, I think a lot of the anti-internet crowd also hates VoIP and think it is a bad thing. Myself, I see it as only a conduit. The internet in no way adds anything or subtracts anything to a QSO when connected via VoIP. The only thing it adds as far as VHF or UHF frequencies is the ability to link otherwise limited range radios together over great distances. Other than that, all it is is a conduit. While it has been MONTHS since I even bothered with such technology, I appreciate it for what it is worth and find it an interesting and enjoyable aspect to amateur radio.

wb7dmx

02-02-2007, 07:47 PM

one of the skills I have always wanted to have but could never get it was to be able to have a set of headphones on and listening to cw while typing my copy on a typewriter.

I have tried many typing tutors but never have been able to get my fingers used to the keyboard.
today I am still just a two finger typer, maybe I try to go too fast but still sometimes hit the wrong key.
and now that my eyesight is getting worst than when I was younger ii is getting bad.

when I was in school it was a lot nicer to be able to use the computer as I could edit the paper rather than retype the whole page.

I still carry two different journryman cards from IBEW, one for electrician, and one for electronics. also one from UAW. plus journeyman licenses from several states.

I have always belived that one should get all the education you can get.

I started while in high school, not only did I have 4 years of electronics, but I also went to night school during my last two years of high school and studied radio and tv repair. and was certified in 1963. I still have that cirtificate too.

the reason I went to school on computers was the fact that the company I was working for ( rival mfg co ) in Clinton MO. was bought out by Homels Group and was shippen to
China.
that left me set up for paid retrainning paid for by the State, and having just two more years to go for retirement, I took this class at the Herndon Career Center in Raytown, MO.

the scholarship I have not used as yet is for the LINN STATE TECHNICAL COLLEGE in Linn , Mo.

I could post the list of all the differant school I have went to and the deplomas I have recived, but that would take two pages.

I am having problems as to why I am being attacted just because of some typing errors.

maybe you would like my full resume ?

wb7dmx

02-03-2007, 11:26 PM

I think its funny how the mud slinging stops when I can produce the facts and proof of my statements.
scott must have run out of mud, and just when I was starting to have fun too.

I love talking about the things I have learned in my life time and enjoy shareing it with others.

I have always belived that if I find something I do not know anything about and am interesting in learning about it, I would go to school and learn all I can, olus buy the tools and equipment to do the work/ repaires myself.
I can proudly say that I have never had tp pay anyone else to fix anything for me..
I and my wife have even went so far as to build 3 homes buy ourselves and all was up to code and inspected to be correct.
and that was from the ground up.with a full basement too.
I know that I have been very lucky to have been able to do all this, I have done a lot more than the adverage person would ever think of doing.

guess I will let this thread die a normal death.
thanks all.

KI4NGN

02-04-2007, 11:49 AM

I've been programming for 37 years, I am a very good at what I do, or so all of my employers have led me to believe, yet I can't type worth a damn.

I disagree with DMX's opinion that QRZ is ham radio, but completely understand if the keyboard give him problems. I'm not sure why anyone has a hard time accepting that!

DMX, I understand your premise that because we are all ham radio operators, and because anyone may read these posts, that our behavior should be the same as on the air.

Where we differ is that ham radio is about radio communications, not internet communications. Anyone may communicate over the internet, but only licensed operators are supposed to be on the ham bands.

Our behavior on the air is is broadly spelled out in the federal regulations that allow our habby to exist, and by decades of mutual agreement.

There are no regulations specifying internet communication behavior other than those dictated by web site owners.

Another big difference is that with a radio anyone with a receiver may listen to a ham QSO by just turning their dial from one QSO to the next. They may not even be looking for ham radio chats; they're just turning their dial.

The only way that anyone may read these threads is to specifically 'tune in' to them. You can't come across them by accident or incident.

And, by the way, people specifically tuning in to these chats will also come across the comments that were the foundation for your thread....this is not ham radio!

Mike