View Full Version : Shilling on eBay
Very interesting article about eBay shills.
Shilling on eBay (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2570050,00.html)
73
George
K3UD
That's why I snipe.
Sniping doesn't give them a chance to shill bid.
And if they shill bid I can walk away with my feedback reputation intact.
Sniping is the only way to play on ebaY.
K6UEY
01-29-2007, 01:09 AM
AB2MH,
OK you have admitted to Sniping,now is that an illeagal method or would you mind explaining what you are talking about ?? Does this method give you unfair advantage over other bidders ??
Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Jan. 28 2007,20:09)]AB2MH,
OK you have admitted to Sniping,now is that an illeagal method or would you mind explaining what you are talking about ?? Does this method give you unfair advantage over other bidders ??
It certainly gives me an advantage, but it is neither unfair nor is it illegal.
It is certainly not against ebay rules nor is it against the law.
And people have run to mommy many times only to be told by ebay that there is nothing wrong with sniping.
(sniping, fwiw, means putting in a bid at the very last minute giving other bidders no time to react.)
ai4ep
01-29-2007, 01:19 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...So is sniping as much fun when some one else wins the item ? ...or only when you win ?
...and just what else is AB2MH doing that may be illegal or unfair to others ?
...not an accusation, just normal questions that any one can ask.
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 28 2007,18:11)](sniping, fwiw, means putting in a bid at the very last minute giving other bidders no time to react.)
Very last minute??? Try the very last second! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
K0RGR
01-29-2007, 03:44 AM
I'm just starting to play the eBay game.
I've made out very well on a couple purchases, and less well on a fairly big one. I managed to save around $100 off the new price, but I probably paid more than I would have elsewhere. Above all else, know what price you should pay, and don't get bid up beyond it.
KB9YFI
01-29-2007, 04:36 AM
LOL
Always the finger-pointing http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
K7JEM
01-29-2007, 05:19 AM
I've been on ebay since 1999. Sniping is indeed the only way to go. You cannot expect to win without it unless you bid very high, or are bidding on an unknown item.
The key to sniping is to put in your max bid in the last 10 seconds or less. If someone is manually bidding against you, they will not have time to respond. If someone else is sniping, the one with the higher bid will usually win.
Joe
K7JEM
01-29-2007, 05:30 AM
Sniping info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction_sniping)
You BET there's shilling on E-bay:
Quote[/b] ]
179 items found in <a href="http://cgi.ebay.ie/1948-GEORGE-V-1-SHILLING-VF_W0QQitemZ110085385461QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3401QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewIt
em" target="_blank">Shilling</a>
Cortland
KA5S
k9kjm
01-29-2007, 06:51 AM
Yep, "Sniping" is the ONLY way to bid if you want to get some decent deals. #
As mentioned, It can be done manually, OR subscribe to one of the programs that will do it for you.
And it is at the very last second that counts.
Decide ahead of time the maximum you want to bid, Then put that bid in at the very last second (Or like I do, About 4 to 5 seconds before the end of the bidding)
BIG difference between doing that and the "Proxy" bidding where you can get in to a bidding "war" with someone else.......... # #
Of course if I am selling, I want you to bid early, And bid often........... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KI4PEQ
01-29-2007, 07:48 AM
If a willing buyer meets the price of a willing seller, even though the price of the item has been bid up artificially, what harm is done? The buyer willingly paid a price for an item that was sold by a willing seller.
Buyer's remorse aside, that is what is called free enterprise. If the buyer did not want to pay the price he or she paid, they should not have entered the bid.
Sorry, even with shill bidding going on, one should research what an item is truly worth, and what they are willing to pay, and bid accordingly.
n6hcm
01-29-2007, 09:08 AM
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Jan. 28 2007,18:19)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...So is sniping as much fun when some one else wins the item ? ...or only when you win ?
sniping means i put forth the bid that was the most i wanted to pay. if someone wants to pay more, that's their right. if i wanted to pay more i'd snipe with a higher maximum.
sniping also means i didn't do anything to raise the price on the item i'm bidding on. that just seems plain sensible to me.
ab8ro
01-29-2007, 11:37 AM
Quote[/b] (n6hcm @ Jan. 28 2007,03:08)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Jan. 28 2007,18:19)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...So is sniping as much fun when some one else wins the item ? ...or only when you win ?
sniping means i put forth the bid that was the most i wanted to pay. if someone wants to pay more, that's their right. if i wanted to pay more i'd snipe with a higher maximum.
sniping also means i didn't do anything to raise the price on the item i'm bidding on. that just seems plain sensible to me.
Exactly. You can thank Ebay for the current trend in sniping. It used to be the case that whatever bid you entered would be the bid that was displayed. Now the system enters only enough of your bid to win. This seriously hampers buyer strategy.
The problem with the old method was that it wasn't as good for the seller. Let's say something is worth $300 but most people frequently find such items for abut $50 if they are willing to wait or look a bit harder. So you bid $100 or $150. Now, the seller knows that he could get $300 but because there is a bid of $150 it scares off many would be buyers. It's easier to go looking for the next item that doesn't have that high bid.
Ever since that change was made I only snipe. Of course if you setup a fake account you can shill against yourself to get the same effect. You risk losing your account if you get caught though.
N4AUD
01-29-2007, 02:24 PM
I don't snipe on Ebay and I've gotten some great deals. When I see an item I want to bid on, I bid the maximum amount right then that I'm willing to pay. I don't bid on it again, even if I get outbid because I've already calculated and bid what I'm willing to pay. Sometimes a "sniper" will win the auction by a small amount, but they were willing to pay more than me. If I start bidding late in the auction I've found myself getting carried away and paying too much because it gets too competitive. Placing a bid and walking away until it's over works best for me.
Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Jan. 28 2007,20:19)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...So is sniping as much fun when some one else wins the item ? ...or only when you win ?
In the rare event that happens, they pay more than what I want to pay anyway.
Quote[/b] ]...and just what else is AB2MH doing that may be illegal or unfair to others ?
Boo hoo hoo cry me a river.
No one is stopping anyone from sniping. If you hate snipers, why not just become one?
Quote[/b] (NN3W @ Jan. 28 2007,20:24)]Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 28 2007,18:11)](sniping, fwiw, means putting in a bid at the very last minute giving other bidders no time to react.)
Very last minute??? Try the very last second! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Yah, my snipe bids usually go in 3 seconds before the auction closes.
Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 29 2007,02:48)]If a willing buyer meets the price of a willing seller, even though the price of the item has been bid up artificially, what harm is done? The buyer willingly paid a price for an item that was sold by a willing seller.
Buyer's remorse aside, that is what is called free enterprise. If the buyer did not want to pay the price he or she paid, they should not have entered the bid.
Sorry, even with shill bidding going on, one should research what an item is truly worth, and what they are willing to pay, and bid accordingly.
That is true.
However, "shill" bidding is against ebay rules. You as the seller are supposed to stay out of the auction and let the market decide.
Big deal.
So make up your mind what you want to pay and bid during the last few seconds like I do and you won't have that problem.
Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 29 2007,00:48)]If a willing buyer meets the price of a willing seller, even though the price of the item has been bid up artificially, what harm is done? The buyer willingly paid a price for an item that was sold by a willing seller.
Buyer's remorse aside, that is what is called free enterprise. If the buyer did not want to pay the price he or she paid, they should not have entered the bid.
Sorry, even with shill bidding going on, one should research what an item is truly worth, and what they are willing to pay, and bid accordingly.
That is the problem, the bid goes higher than new sometimes, I see it happen with the ICOM V8000 all the time going for over 200 dollars.
Then usually there is someone on this forum that thinks they have morals by not sniping and then post the price went to high and it is unbelievable and unfair that the price went that high.
I LMFAO when I see the cry baby posts about ebay prices being so high.
hmmmmmmm I can sell a radio on here or a hamfest for 200 dollars and listen to the ham cry about 200 dollars and how he feels taken or I can sell it on ebay for 650 dollars and read about in on here and laugh HAHAHAHAHAHA
Example, I had a FT-847 for sale on here for $1200, I got private messages that I was WAY to high or offers of 500 dollars or GOOD LUCK YOU WILL NEVER SELL AT THAT PRICE
It sold on Ebay for 1230 plus 30 dollars shipping
GEE I WONDER WHY HAMFESTS ARE GOING IN THE CRAPPER
Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Jan. 28 2007,17:55)]Very interesting article about eBay shills.
Shilling on eBay (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2570050,00.html)
73
George
K3UD
I think that was known for some time but glad someone finally made it public knowledge....
eScam...Fleabay...
I haven't read the article yet, but I want to ask a question, anyway.
Let's say that an item is up for bid, and I am willing to pay a certain price for this object, let's say $150.00.
I put in a proxy bid of $150.00 right off the bat. The highest bid up to that point was, lets say $50.00 , so my bid becomes, what, $55 ? ( what ever the increment is at that point )
Now the price stays at $55, because no one is willing to go higher.
Now a "sniper" comes along. How much is he going to have to bid in that last time interval to go over my "proxy" bid of $150.00 ? ? ?
If I understand the way EBay works, I would think that it would have to be at least $151.00 ( probably more of an increment since the price has gone up that much ) - right ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
If it is $151.00 and all I was willing to pay was $150.00, what have I lost ? Would it make any difference if the bid had been made a day or just a second before the "clock struck midnight" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I contend that it wouldn't. The only person that a "sniper" wins over is another "sniper". Not someone who has made the legitimate high bid at an earlier time.
Am I right, or wrong ?
73, Jim
K7JEM
01-29-2007, 11:20 PM
Correct Jim. He would have to bid more than the bid increment over your bid. It may be like 2.50 for $150, I don't remember. You won't lose to a sniper that bids 150.50.
Sniping only works in a timed auction. The idea is to not run the price up, by bidding early. Someone may proxy bid $150 early on, and you proxy bid $160. The bid would be at something like 152.50, and the original guy might think, "well I'll just bid $15 more, it's probably worth that". A few bids like this, and it could go up a lot.
Sniping eliminates the bidding frenzy. Whoever snipes with the highest proxy will (generally) get the stuff. You don't get caught up in a bidding war, you just specify the max you want to pay, bid once, and you either get it or not. Eliminates the second guessing and emotional bids.
Joe
I was on a CB web site that sold radio stuff using some auction software.
You were able to get some deals but the auction software did not let sniping work. If you bid with 3 seconds left and became high bidder the software extended the auction 2 minutes. Of course the seller made out http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Um....someone, please explain the advantage in sniping. If I decide that I want to pay $100 for an item, why does it make any difference if I bid $100 through Ebay's proxy bid system or snipe at $100 at the last second? 1) If someone bids up and passes my proxy bid, it's his. 2) If all the bidders are snipers and exceed my $100, then they get it anyway. 3) The Ebay newbies with little feedback are usually the ones that bid things up. This may be the only reason to snipe. You generally don't win against one of these, but if everyone snipes, that advantage is gone. The real auction happens in the last 10 seconds. I've won many auctions with a proxy bid that never got bid up near my max and the snipers put in low amounts as a result.
I find it far more effective to bid "strange" amounts like $102.34 in a proxy bid to get rid of all those folks that have emotional barriers against odd numbers and would bid or snipe at $100. Round number bids appeal to most minds.
Oooops!!! I gave away one of my non sniping successful secrets!
I also sell on Ebay but that another set of strategies....
K7JEM
01-30-2007, 01:27 AM
Everyone already knows that strategy. You learn that quickly.
The advantage to sniping is that it actually compresses the entire auction into 10 seconds or so. If you have a five day auction, bidders have a long time to think about their bids. If you get outbid early on, many people are likely to raise that bid, then the other party does likewise. If no-one was sniping, all the stuff on e-bay would go for more money, due to frenzy bidding and second guessing.
Joe
kf6rdn
01-30-2007, 03:19 AM
Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 28 2007,23:48)]If a willing buyer meets the price of a willing seller, even though the price of the item has been bid up artificially, what harm is done? The buyer willingly paid a price for an item that was sold by a willing seller.
Buyer's remorse aside, that is what is called free enterprise. If the buyer did not want to pay the price he or she paid, they should not have entered the bid.
Sorry, even with shill bidding going on, one should research what an item is truly worth, and what they are willing to pay, and bid accordingly.
EXACTLY!
And when they charge 3 percent on a reserve auction, you can bet your a$$ that people are going to on a high end item, at the very least put in a bid in lieu of a reserve price.
Call it dishonest, but if you put it in early, where people can see what it's been bid to, you aren't defrauding anyone.
Except maybe ebay.
besides the ebay fee dont forget the paypal fee the seller has to give up also
Yup
Don't use PayPal unless you want to give up all your rights to your account! #
PayPal is something to avoid, IMHO. #They can take money from your account with no cause and you have no recourse. # It happened to me. These guys are still dirtbags, even after Ebay bought them. #They do NOT have to comply with banking rules. BEWARE!!!!!
see:
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
ka5piu
01-31-2007, 02:20 AM
Quote[/b] (K1KW @ Jan. 29 2007,20:51)]Yup
Don't use PayPal unless you want to give up all your rights to your account! #
PayPal is something to avoid, IMHO. #They can take money from your account with no cause and you have no recourse. # It happened to me. These guys are still dirtbags, even after Ebay bought them. #They do NOT have to comply with banking rules. #BEWARE!!!!!
see:
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
Hello.
Credit card companies are the same way.
It is called a chargeback, and it is part of what you have to agree to under the merchants contract.
Can you contest it? yes.
You might see your money in 9 months.
In the mean time, you are on the contested transactions list, that is a major credit stopper.
Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Jan. 29 2007,20:27)]Everyone already knows that strategy. You learn that quickly.
The advantage to sniping is that it actually compresses the entire auction into 10 seconds or so. If you have a five day auction, bidders have a long time to think about their bids. If you get outbid early on, many people are likely to raise that bid, then the other party does likewise. If no-one was sniping, all the stuff on e-bay would go for more money, due to frenzy bidding and second guessing.
Joe
The bigger advantage to sniping is the element of surprise.
No one knows what you bid or what you intend to bid until the auction is over and it's too late for them to do anything.
K7JEM
01-31-2007, 05:28 AM
Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 30 2007,19:59)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Jan. 29 2007,20:27)]Everyone already knows that strategy. You learn that quickly.
The advantage to sniping is that it actually compresses the entire auction into 10 seconds or so. If you have a five day auction, bidders have a long time to think about their bids. If you get outbid early on, many people are likely to raise that bid, then the other party does likewise. If no-one was sniping, all the stuff on e-bay would go for more money, due to frenzy bidding and second guessing.
Joe
The bigger advantage to sniping is the element of surprise.
No one knows what you bid or what you intend to bid until the auction is over and it's too late for them to do anything.
Thats what I'm saying. It turns a regular auction into more of a "sealed bid" auction, where all the bids are opened at one time, and the product is awarded to the highest bidder.
You don't get caught up in a frenzy of bidding, second guessing your original intent.
"Hmmm, if that guy is bidding $150, it must be worth at least that. I'll go to $160". Then the other party, or parties, do the same thing. The item gets more "valuable" to the bidders by perception alone.
All the snipes come it at the same time, it's just like a sealed bid.
Actually, if everyone used proxy bidding as it is designed, there would be no need for sniping at all.
Joe