Is the ARISS program illegal?

[n0iu]

There is another thread running that asks about NASA's motivation regarding licensing astronauts and this got me thinking.

I think we are all familliar with the section of Part 97 regarding pecuniary consideration.

§97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer.

The only specific profession mention by name that is expempt from this is education:
§97.113 ( c ) A control operator may accept compensation as an incident of a teaching position during periods of time when an amateur station is used by that teacher as a part of classroom instruction at an educational institution.

With the rare exception of "space tourists" who pay millions of dollars for the privilege of flying on an American space shuttle, the astronauts who operate the ISS amateur radio station are paid employees of NASA.

There is a section of Part 97 regarding Space Stations that states:
§97.207 Space station.
(a) Any amateur station may be a space station. A holder of any class operator license may be the control operator of a space station, subject to the privileges of the class of operator license held by the control operator.

This seems a little vague to me. All this says is that in order to operate a space station, one must hold an amateur radio license, but it does not specifically exempt paid astronauts from the pecuniary interest rule.

Now I don't want to see Riley fine all of the astronauts who have participated in the SAREX and ARISS program, but as long as we are changing Part 97, maybe this is something that needs clarification.

Scott NØIU

[PE1RDW]

Altough NASA embraces the sarex and ariss programs they are not run by nasa, so all comunication done trough the sarex and ariss systems are not on behalf of nasa.
exept from the school contacts they are also done in their free time.
You can debate if it is evading the rules or folowing the rules but this situation is not iligal in the current rules, you can compare it to a hospital technician who operates a hospital paid hamstation (intended for backup comunication) in his free time, there is nothing wrong with that too.

[N0NB]

At one time is was considered a violation of the rules for a teacher "on the clock" to demonstrate ham radio in the classroom which was patently absurd and was remedied in the early to mid '90s. Now the prohibition extends only to misusing amateur radio to make money for oneself or one's employer. So far as I know, the astronauts aren't raising funds or selling merchandise for NASA using ARISS.

[n0iu]

Pecuniary interest does not necessarily mean that you are attempting to make money while on the radio. The bottom lines is that the astronauts are being paid to operate an amateur radio station, whether it is officially sanctioned by NASA or not. The clock does not stop ticking for the astronauts just because they are operating the ARISS station at times when they do not have other specific duties. Being a flight deck officer on the Space Shuttle or while on board the International Space Station is not a 9-5 job!

Scott NØIU

[N2RJ]

I don't think the astronauts are being paid to operate the amateur radio station.

They're just using amateur radio while on the job, not for the job.

It is the same as if you and your cow-orkers had a ham radio club and you operated during your break time, or even while on the job.

You're just not using amateur radio for the job.

What about hams deployed in the military or at sea on cargo or cruise ships (those that will allow them to operate ham radio). It's the same thing with them.

[KI4ITV]

Scott,
I understand what your question is and why. But, wouldn't this also mean that the travelling salesman who accepts base compensation+commissions is in violation if he uses amateur radio to pass the time while travelling his route?
Trey P.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (KI4ITV @ Jan. 27 2007,09:32)]Scott,
I understand what your question is and why. But, wouldn't this also mean that the travelling salesman who accepts base compensation+commissions is in violation if he uses amateur radio to pass the time while travelling his route?
Trey P.
Or those of us on salary, but effectively on-call 24/7 (I'm a network administrator, got rousted out this morning by a support call).

I'm never completely off-duty, and I get paid the same whether I'm in the office or here at home, whether I am performing "specific duties" or not.

By this reasoning, I'm violating the rules every time I get on.

[ky5u]

You're barking up the wrong tree, Scott.

[n0iu]

Woof!

The pecuniary interest rule means that it is illegal to be compensated for operating an amateur radio station (except in those cases allowed under Part 97).

With the astronauts, they are not just "on duty" 24/7, but every activity in which they engage is done with the knowledge and consent of NASA. As an on-call network administrator, I am sure your employer doesn't care what you do when you are not actually engaged in your profession. With the space program, every activity must be support the mission at hand. Although it may not be an official part of NASA, all time spent at the ARISS station must be approved by them and fit within the flight plan. Astronauts do no have totally free reign to determine how they spend their free time. Everything must be approved by NASA to make sure that nothing compromises the mission or endangers the crew (over and above the dangers that exist by being in space in the first place!). I am sure you are not under the same restrictions from your employer.

As posted on another thread, the SAREX and ARISS programs are public relations for NASA. The communications with schools or the amateur community in general are an integral part of the what the astronauts do while on board the Space Station.

Even if the ARISS activities may take place while the astronauts are "on break" or while they are not "on the clock", they do not operate independently of the mission.

Scott NØIU

[N0NB]

Scott, I don't know what your motivation is for this topic, but I really think you're looking for a rules violation where none exists. #Had this been an issue, I'm sure the FCC would have had something to say way back in 1983 when W5LFL first operated from Columbia when the "business" rules were much stricter.

Just this past week my co-worker and I had to be in another city. #We used 146.520 to stay in touch while traveling. #We were on the clock. #In no way did either of us benefit monetarily nor did our employer. #As I read your assertion, both of us should have been prohibited from using amateur radio while on the clock. #The FCC has stated repeatedly that this is not their intent.

In my interpretation the astronauts qualify as teachers when conducting a school QSO. #Any other use of their station is recreational and purely incidental to their paycheck just as with myself while on the road and on the clock.

Whatever the case, is it worth it to the Service to split hairs this fine?

[N4AUD]

I take the rule to mean that your transmissions can't put money in your pocket. It doesn't look to me as if you can't use your amateur equipment while you are on the job. By such an interpretation, if we had a president who was ham, he couldn't operate while in office and GI's couldn't operate while in service since both jobs are "24/7." I think you can operate while you are on the clock and can even talk about your job as long as it isn't being used to further the job, which the astronauts aren't doing. If they start using the ham radio to talk to the ground crew about the running and maintenance of the spacecraft, then it is a violation.

[N2RJ]

The precedent to look at would be hams operating from their employers' ships while at sea, or deployed military members operating, or even at home living on base.

I've never heard of any ham operating in any of these circumstances and being fined or written up by the FCC.

[K7JEM]

Scott's way off on this.

Are you being paid to operate the radio, or is it just ancillary?

If what he is saying were true, then truck drivers, or anyone, would not be able to operate a ham radio while "on the clock".

This is an absurd interpretation.

Joe

[ka5piu]

Hello.

The only violation of the rules to date have been by police.
Some cops set up special codes to use "just in case".
This got to where it was a normal channel.
Later, other officers who held no license joined in.
The local government was impressed with the service that the ham rigs could deliver and ordered a hundred or so for the fire department.
After the police arrested a ham for trying to make a contact on a "police" 2 meter repeater, the FCC was called in.
Philly told the FCC to get bent.
Philly paid the price.
Not that long ago, a law enforcement amateur radio user group was started, the same happy hoopla with special codes and the like was started.
Again, against federal law.
So, if you WANT to go after someone, go after someone who the feds have already said are in violation of the law.

[K3UD]

Over the last 5 or so years I have had several QSOs with on duty military
(with ham licenses) flying in transports. Usually they are using the built in HF sideband radio on the aircraft. From what I could gather the pilot in command would allocate specific times when the radio could be used for amateur radio contacts. It sounds like what is going on with the hams who operate from the space station.

73
George
K3UD

[N4AUD]

I know a few OF's who had contacts with Gen. Curtis Lemay while he was flying in a military aircraft.

I really don't see the problem...

[NC5P]

This is just more legalism. Some of you need to chill out. The FCC has bent over backwards to encourage the space operations and their public benefit in the school classrooms. I really think the people who get upset about all this are the ones with binoculars and a cell phone in their hand, calling the cops, zoning, health, sanitation, etc. every five minutes. We have neighbors like that, the various county departments are sick of their calls. They have bigger fish to fry than harassing people who aren't hurting anything. Besides, I do remember there being some clowns who were deliberately jamming WA3NAN's shuttle transmissions. They think they're illegal broadcasts but jamming is not?

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 27 2007,07:29)]§97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer.
pecuniary \pih-KYOO-nee-air-ee\, adjective:
1. Relating to money; monetary.
2. Consisting of money.
3. Requiring payment of money.

The key word is interest.

The rules do not prohibit anyone using amateur radio while making money. What the rules do prohibit, is using amateur radio to make money., or to coordinate money making efforts.

If the astronaut used the radio to persuade people to purchase Lockheed stock (or whoever built the spacecraft) for instance, that would not be illegal as long as said astronaut was not being paid by Lockheed or was a stock broker who is awarded a commission for a stock sale.

If he was being paid by Lockheed or was a stock broker that means that either Lockheed or his brokerage firm certainly have a pecuniary interest in their employee. Regardless if he was "on the clock" at the time of his transmission, his employer has an interest in him, the sales he makes, or the comments he makes about the company. Because of this he would be considered actively soliciting rewards of a pecuniary nature on behalf of his employer, and that WOULD be illegal.

There has to be a pecuniary interest.

No interest, no problems.

[n0iu]

Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ Jan. 27 2007,15:14)]The rules do not prohibit anyone using amateur radio while making money. #What the rules do prohibit, is using amateur radio to make money., or to coordinate money making efforts.

No interest, no problems.
If this interpretation is true, why are there special rules for teachers and control operators of club stations when the station is transmitting telegraphy practice or information bulletins?

I believe the primary intent of §97.113 is that one can not be paid to operate an amateur radio station (with the two exceptions above), not that you can not use it to make money.

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 28 2007,04:50)]I believe the primary intent of §97.113 is that one can not be paid to operate an amateur radio station (with the two exceptions above), not that you can not use it to make money.
There is no difference. If you are being paid to operate an amateur station or using it to make money, it's the same thing. Either way you are using the station to make money.

But NASA astronauts are not being paid to operate an amateur station they are being paid to carry out their mission duties.

NASA has no pecuniary interest in amateur radio on a shuttle mission. Nor is operating an amateur station integral to their mission. If the astronauts run an amateur station or not, it has no financial effect on NASA, and no effect on the outcome of the mission.

You cannot be paid to operate an amateur station as part of your job or mission duties. But you can still be earning a salary, and be on the job and use an amateur station.

Let's use this wild analogy, and it's a bit "out there", but nonetheless.

Let's say you are drinking alcohol while at work building widgets in a factory. Does that mean the employer requires you to drink on the job? Is he paying you to drink on the job. No!

If you got paid for mileage on your job and you were driving to another job, would talking on your 2M mobile be illegal? No.

If you were on paid vacation and worked a HF contest, would that be illegal? No.

If you're retired and receiving a pension or social security, would operating an amateur station be illegal? No.

Let's say you run a business, and have an amateur station in your service vehicle. While your going to a service call you tell another ham about a sale you're having, or ask him to check out an item you are selling. Would that be illegal? Yes, because you now have a pecuniary interest and are using the radio to make a sale, and ultimately make money.

[K7JEM]

As Steve points out, there is a difference of being "on the job" and being "paid to operate ham radio".

I think if there was any validity to your argument, others would have chimed in to agree with you.

IF the astronauts were told that they HAD to operate the ham radio, then you might have something. They are ALLOWED to operate the radio at certain times, and they do establish schedules with schools and other ground stations. This is as it should be.

Joe

[n0iu]

But no one has yet to answer the question as to why there had to be a special clause just for teachers. If a teacher is the sponsor of an amateur radio club in their school, the argument can be made that they are operating a station while on the clock. After all, they are doing this on school property and it is (presumably) sanctioned by the school. They don't have to operate the station, but rather are being allowed to operate the station. Even if they get extra money for sponsoring and extra-curricular activity, they are not being paid to use the station on behalf of their employer.

So what is the difference between teachers and astronauts?

Scott NØIU

[k7mh]

As you can see in the rules the control op thing is pretty intense at minimum of 40 hrs a week of transmissions on most all bands! I guess it is only acceptable if it is a full time job! Fat chance!

Can you imagine 8 hours a day of code practice and bulletins?
"Now the 175 wpm code..."

"It is reported that K7MH is thinking about buying a new handheld transceiver..." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 27 2007,08:53)]Pecuniary interest does not necessarily mean that you are attempting to make money while on the radio. The bottom lines is that the astronauts are being paid to operate an amateur radio station, whether it is officially sanctioned by NASA or not. The clock does not stop ticking for the astronauts just because they are operating the ARISS station at times when they do not have other specific duties. Being a flight deck officer on the Space Shuttle or while on board the International Space Station is not a 9-5 job!

Scott NØIU
Sometimes I take my HT to work with me and chat with friends...be it rare because my work facilities aren't good for radio...but on the occasion that I do it, and I am on the clock as an employee of my company...I am DEFINATELY legal as far as the FCC is concerned...as long as I am not discussing work matters with another employee or a contractor who has interest in my work...period. As long as the conversation is of a relaxed, personal nature...even if work activities are talked about...and as long as I am not being paid by my employer TO talk on my radio, I am OK. As far as I know mission control is not giving orders to the astonauts via amateur frequencies.

It has been my impression that the astonauts simply chit-chat with earth bound amateurs, and their conversations are not forced upon them as a job duty.

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 28 2007,12:55)]But no one has yet to answer the question as to why there had to be a special clause just for teachers. If a teacher is the sponsor of an amateur radio club in their school, the argument can be made that they are operating a station while on the clock. After all, they are doing this on school property and it is (presumably) sanctioned by the school. They don't have to operate the station, but rather are being allowed to operate the station. Even if they get extra money for sponsoring and extra-curricular activity, they are not being paid to use the station on behalf of their employer.

So what is the difference between teachers and astronauts?

Scott NØIU
Teachers are allowed to operate an amateur station while on the clock. Everyone is.

They are making not money on the radio, they are not soliciting sales or funds on the radio.

I see what you're saying, but consider this... Would that teacher still be paid even if amateur radio wasn't in the picture? Yes. They are being paid to teach, not to operate the radio. Would there be no schools or space shuttle if not for ham radio?

If a teacher or Joe Ham Operator was called in to the school for the specific reason of operating an amateur station and they would be compensated financially, that would be a no-no.

[KE5FRF]

I think I see where you are going. You aren't trying to claim it is illegal. You are saying it is inconsistent to have a rules clarification specifically for teachers and none specifically for astonauts, when their supposed use of ham frequencies are very similar in nature.

I think the answer (partially) lies in the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of teachers across the US, while there are only a handful of astronauts. Seems kind of silly to spell out a law and take up space in the lawbooks that pertains to only 2 or 3 human beings at any given time. I think the simple fact remains also that the teachers are doing it as part of a CURRICULUM. No, they are not being "forced" to do it by the schools. They could very well give their students a book to read and be done with it. But since they choose to establish it as part of their curriculum, it then becomes a part of their job. They are being paid to TEACH, and using amateur radio as a "prop" in the course of their paid duties.

So, as was mentioned before, when the astronauts are talking to a class, they in effect BECOME teachers, so even if it is required of them by NASA to participate in the classroom QSOs, they fit into the specified category of teacher. When they are NOT speaking to students, I gather NASA really doesn't care if they do it or not, so it is not any kind of job requirement, therefore it is recreational in nature and definately NOT illegal.

Any further analysis is stretching it.

[k7mh]

Quote[/b] ]You are saying it is inconsistent to have a rules clarification specifically for teachers

OK I found it!

It was probably added due to pressure from them as a group to dispell any concerns that teachers had about it.

Not uncommon in legislature to add specific laws due to pressure from large groups of organized people when the current laws really cover it anyway. Kind of like road rage laws.
Like reckless driving and vehicular assault doesn't cover it?? It's a feel good thing and a way to keep votes.

[WA2ZDY]

There is a specific provision for teachers and for Joe Carcia at ARRL. (No, I'm not going looking for it.) That's because those folks ARE being paid to operate the stations as part of their jobs. The astronuts (spelling is intentional) are operating incidentally in their "off time." If it was duty time, they'd be busy doing their duties, not playing with the ham radio.

The truck driver analogy fits this situation perfectly.

[K7JEM]

Exactly. If a teacher is instructing a class for ham radio, or demonstrating ham radio, that is a part of their job. Without this exemption, it would be illegal for them to use the radio as part of the lesson, since it would be transmissions on behalf of their employer.

Astronauts are not making transmissions on behalf of their employer, and they can't be forced to use the radio as part of their employment. If they choose to talk on the radio, and even give details of what they are doing, that is still not a transmission on behalf of their employer. It seems a simple matter if you substitute any other profession for astronaut.

Joe

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Jan. 28 2007,14:08)]The astronuts (spelling is intentional) are operating incidentally in their "off time." If it was duty time, they'd be busy doing their duties, not playing with the ham radio.
The only problem with this reasoning is that ARISS, like SAREX before it, is a formal NASA program.

I believe that NASA qualifies ARISS duties the same way it classified SAREX, back when I was at the agency, as 'educational outreach', which is part of an astronaut's job description.

ARISS is, in fact, 'duty time', for an astronaut.

However, as it is outreach, it may well be covered under the education exception.

[PE1RDW]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Jan. 29 2007,02:59)]The only problem with this reasoning is that ARISS, like SAREX before it, is a formal NASA program.

I believe that NASA qualifies ARISS duties the same way it classified SAREX, back when I was at the agency, as 'educational outreach', which is part of an astronaut's job description.

ARISS is, in fact, 'duty time', for an astronaut.

However, as it is outreach, it may well be covered under the education exception.
SAREX and ARISS are AMSAT programs, not NASA programs.

If you knew how schools get lined up for a schoolcontact you would see the relation more clearly:
The school contacts the ARISS manager (a hamradio operator) of their region, he then contacts NASA to get a timeslot for the contact, to put it in black and white terms, during the schoolcontacts the astronauts and cosmonauts are "hired out" to ARISS.

Random contacts are being done on initiative of the astronounts and cosmonauts themselfs, they only thing they can't do is turn on the radios when groundcontrol (either NASA or Energia) has given the order to turn them off, all the other times the radios or already on, they just have to switch mode to the voice setting of the region they are flying over.

On a side note, when in packet, SSTV and repeater mode they operate under rusian rules so they don't have to worry about automatic control rules.

[N5LRZ]

Riddle me this Batman...

Does the FCC know about these transmissions?

A) OBVIOUSLY since we have been doing them openly even advertising them for many years. OBVIOUSLY the FCC knows about them.

What does this tell you?

b) Obviously it shows that its LEGAL otherwise they would have shut down any and all such operations PDQ--which they have not.

And since THEY MAKE the rules, interpret the rules and enforce the rules--judge jury and executioner--its what they say and do that matters.

All else is completely irrelevant.

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Jan. 29 2007,02:13)]SAREX and ARISS are AMSAT programs, not NASA programs.

Almost. They are AMSAT sponsored programs in which NASA is a formal participant. From NASA's perspective, they are NASA programs, with respect to astronaut assigned duties, and fall under the duty heading of educational outreach.

NASA has a MOU with AMSAT that spells this out.

[K6UEY]

I believe the main under lying factor that this topic points out is that some one has far too much undedicated time on their hands !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 28 2007,10:55)]But no one has yet to answer the question as to why there had to be a special clause just for teachers. If a teacher is the sponsor of an amateur radio club in their school, the argument can be made that they are operating a station while on the clock. After all, they are doing this on school property and it is (presumably) sanctioned by the school. They don't have to operate the station, but rather are being allowed to operate the station. Even if they get extra money for sponsoring and extra-curricular activity, they are not being paid to use the station on behalf of their employer.

So what is the difference between teachers and astronauts?

Scott NØIU
The difference is that the teachers and the operators at W1AW, who are the reason behind the other exemption, ARE being paid to operate the ham station as part of their employment. Using the ham station is part of the official curriculum in some schools.

The hams on the space shuttle/ISS are not operating it as part of their official duties.

[n0nwo]

This thread is really stupid. #Who do you guys think anyone is making money off of ham radio when an astronaut uses it?

The law has to do with using your radio as a business band. #Your boss is a tow truck driver and his radio is on the fritz so you have been lending him a hand by assisting with dispatch calls by way of amateur radio; #or you are a store owner and you are using your amateure radio equipment and telling all the local folks in the area about the great sale going on right now.

It IS NOT illegal to use your radio while on the clock at work as long as you are not doing it to sell product or a service or bring traffic in the front door. Mail carriers, truck drivers, teachers, and I do it all the time.

It IS NOT illegal to use the autopatch to call to make or change an appointment, order a pizza, or let your boss know your are running late. #

Does anyone think that an astronaut gets an extra bonus in her/his check everytime the key a mic or send an amateur radio packet?

I got to end this post the way I started it. This thread is really stupid!

Minton

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Jan. 29 2007,11:24)]The hams on the space shuttle/ISS are not operating it as part of their official duties.
This is not correct. NASA is a formal participant in ARISS and SAREX and the astronauts who participate do so under the educational outreach portion of their job description.

However, I believe tha since it is educational outreach, the same exemption applies as does to teachers.

[k4kyv]

With jamming and deliberate interference commonplace on the ham bands, cheating going on during volunteer exams, and other serious violations of the rules directly affecting amateur radio in a negative way, isn't this entire topic and discussion well into the realm of nit-picking?

[K0HWY]

Indeed.

It's probably only a matter of time until someone, in the best interest of amateur radio, attempts to use the Commission's own rules against them in an effort to bring to an end the use of amateur radio by astronauts who are "on the clock."

While the Commission and most others involved understand the rules as written and are capable of applying a little common sense to the interpretation, it's become painfully obvious that common sense isn't so common anymore.

From my professional experience, it's becoming more and more imperative to spell everything out, letter by letter. I've been asked to write SOGs for a couple of fire departments and I've caught myself sitting there trying to get inside the mind of the opportunist who would try to use that particular guideline to his or her advantage by nit-picking on things that weren't specifically addressed or things that were left open to common sense interpretation. The result is, I often end up with many extra pages as I attempt to play the CYA game. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[K7JEM]

The commission is well aware of this activity, and they condone and support it. As another poster said, they make and enforce the rules, and have obviously determined that there is no problem.

Worst case scenario would be to modify their rules to specifically exempt astronauts, just like teachers. But that is not needed, since they see no problem. The problem is only in the minds of some "radio cops".

Most amateurs, the FCC, NASA, schools, ARRL, etc, are all in favor of this type of operation. If it ever became a problem, the FCC could modify the rules with about 60 days leadtime. No NPRM is needed.

Joe

[kb2vxa]

Alright, let's cut right to the core of the matter, semantics.

"Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer."

"Communications IN which" is understood to be pecuniary interest is contained in the communications, such as advertising or the dissemination of information for monetary gain.

"Communications on behalf of an employer" is understood to be the employer benefits from the communications.

I have yet to hear any ARISS communications in which an astronaut or NASA stands to make money. On the other hand it just could be on NASA frequencies they could be discussing some pharmaceutical company making big bucks from them growing bugs in space. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[k6jpd]

The hams on the space shuttle/ISS are not operating it as part of their official duties.

i dont, know about official duties of astronauts, but, i know for a fact that many military MARS operators were ASSIGNED that as a PRIMARY DUTY. they had no other duties except MARS operations.
were they "on the clock"... yes
was it a "problem" .... no

[KE5CAX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[wb7dmx]

dont, know about official duties of astronauts, but, i know for a fact that many military MARS operators were ASSIGNED that as a PRIMARY DUTY. they had no other duties except MARS operations.
were they "on the clock"... yes
was it a "problem" .... no



were they on ham band frquencues ?
NO

were they on MARS frequencies ?
YES

then it is not ham radio related.

[k6jpd]

yikes! thanks for the correction. i actually didn't think about that ............ duh

[KC2QXE]

What I always wondered was how can the FCC regulate communication generating from space. It seems to me that if someone wasn't licensed and went into space that the FCC wouldn't have jurisdiction to enforce anything.

I say unlicensed because when you are licensed you agree to certain rules and by not licensing your self you have not agreed to those rules.

[KN7T]

Judas H., can't we just apply a little common sense here?

[AE6IP]

No.

[NN3W]

Does this mean that the little demo radios over at HRO and AES are illegal? After all the store is there to make money?

[ky5u]

Same question is posted on QRZ about every year or so. Answers have not changed.

[W3MIV]

I always thought a "pecuniary" was one of those little fellows down in Nawlins that arranged for some entertainment "diversions" to conventioneers at the hotels.

Live 'n' learn.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[NN3W]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Jan. 27 2007,08:17)]
Quote[/b] ]The pecuniary interest rule means that it is illegal to be compensated for operating an amateur radio station (except in those cases allowed under Part 97).

Provide me with a FCC ruling on the point, and I'll accept your premise. The mere fact that the EB has not prohibited this activity since the days of W5LFL tends to discredit your theory

Quote[/b] ]As posted on another thread, the SAREX and ARISS programs are public relations for NASA. The communications with schools or the amateur community in general are an integral part of the what the astronauts do while on board the Space Station.

And here's the ultimate question. To whom does the pecuniary gain rule apply? Certainly not NASA as government agencies are not in the business to make money.

[WA9SVD]

I see no problem. Whether running the ISS is or isn't a 24/7 job is moot. When the astro/cosmonauts are ioperating, there 2 distinct possibilities:

1. Either they are operating on their own "off duty" time, when not performing regular duties, and that is for their own pleasure, not any direct benefit (save for publicity) for NASA or the Russina Space Agency.

2. When they make SCHEDULED contacts with schools, they are serving as teachers, which is always allowed when an occasional, ancillary part of their normal ditues.

(WHY do some people try to make mountains out of anthills?)

[kn4ds]

The simple answer is "File a complaint with the Commission and let them deal with it."

[WA9SVD]

The real point is the astro/cosmonauts accrue the same salary whether ot not they operate the ARISS equipment; they get no extra pay for operating the Amateur equipment. even if they are "off duty.. And where does the "pecuniary interest" benefit NASA or the Soviet Space Agency???

The same could apply to a train crew; if off duty, but still on the train, could they legally operate?

[wv6z]

Brilliant troll Scott! Look you even tricked me in to posting. Please be sure to notify Riley of the fact that truck drivers are chatting on the air while being compensated for doing so. Also, tell him I am a straight salaried, exempt from over time employee where I work, which, essentially means I am paid 24/7/365, so please be sure to tell him I am breaking the rules while chatting not just during commute time, but actually ANY time I am on the air at all, ever. You can tell him I am good on the Zed in case he doesn’t trust the ULS for accuracy.