When you should NOT QUIT !!

[AB8RU]

First of all its not the time to quit ! why you ask, well who is going to Elmer the Newbies ?, I am a ARRL Acredited Volunteer Examiner I have posted VE exam SKEDs as my time permits, I sure as my radios are in the house, car HTs whatever I am just getting started so ther is so much to this hobby, there are General, Advanced & Extras who are in Electronics in a Professional Sense they Hold Degreees in Electronics, Engineering as my bottom post shows, I am a pusher for people to take a challenge in their life to do something better for themselves, I may occasionally rub people the wrong way well thats just me.

we have a School Motto " Winners NEVER QUIT and Quitters Never Win !" #that still sticks to me since 1960's anyone here ever attended Big Rapids Public Schools Graduated High School knows what I am talking about, #my uncle served under General George S. Patton 3rd Army anyone seen the Movie PATTON knows what I am talking about, I never even asked him to begin with.

If you are that mad enough that the Rules Changed Internationally as well here in the US may I sugguest reading a ARRL book titled " Morse Code the Essential Language " #talked about something of interest, go find the book and read for it yourself, #BTW I bought mine at Amazon books.

I am not beating a dead horse here however I don't see the need to either, now if you were like me you would sit and wait for awhile and see what happens. lets see I believe the Military still does code any comments from the Military men I would appreciate comments and also MARS program, QMN is not going away either, CAP I think CW is part of your group also and USCG Volunteers may comment also.

If you are US Govt Radio OP lets keep the rest in the dark # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif # Government Seceret # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[kc7eku]

I am confused?? USCG Volunteers?? Last time I checked the USCG is military (debate for another thread).

Anyways, as far as Code being taught and/or used in the USCG... it is not... They no longer have Radioman (RM's) they became Telecommunitcations Specialists (TC's) and then changed again to Operational Specialists (OS's). I believe they stoped teaching code back in the early 90's when I came in, and most of the OS's now dont know the first thing about radios (just an observation).

Well, I am going to take my element 1 in the next few weeks. Its been hard to complete with moving around so much, and just recently got back into the hobby since all my radios were stolen in a move a few years back.

73's
Jay

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (AB8RU @ Jan. 25 2007,18:32)]First of all its not the time to quit ! why you ask, well who is going to Elmer the Newbies ?, I am a ARRL Acredited Volunteer Examiner I have posted VE exam SKEDs as my time permits, I sure as my radios are in the house, car HTs whatever I am just getting started so ther is so much to this hobby, there are General, Advanced & Extras who are in Electronics in a Professional Sense they Hold Degreees in Electronics, Engineering as my bottom post shows, I am a pusher for people to take a challenge in their life to do something better for themselves, I may occasionally rub people the wrong way well thats just me.

we have a School Motto " Winners NEVER QUIT and Quitters Never Win !" that still sticks to me since 1960's anyone here ever attended Big Rapids Public Schools Graduated High School knows what I am talking about, my uncle served under General George S. Patton 3rd Army anyone seen the Movie PATTON knows what I am talking about, I never even asked him to begin with.

If you are that mad enough that the Rules Changed Internationally as well here in the US may I sugguest reading a ARRL book titled " Morse Code the Essential Language " talked about something of interest, go find the book and read for it yourself, BTW I bought mine at Amazon books.

I am not beating a dead horse here however I don't see the need to either, now if you were like me you would sit and wait for awhile and see what happens. lets see I believe the Military still does code any comments from the Military men I would appreciate comments and also MARS program, QMN is not going away either, CAP I think CW is part of your group also and USCG Volunteers may comment also.

If you are US Govt Radio OP lets keep the rest in the dark http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Government Seceret http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
I can't read this. Are you under the influence of something or having an out of body experience?

[AB8RU]

Sober since 1984 I am trying to get opinions from people not to quit radio BTW I am not here for a flame war I like to solicit opinions from other groups keeping people from leaving the hobby thats all, once in awhile I talked to ex hams quitting or upset because of rule changes. Thats all . Thanks for your input.

[K0HWY]

First of all, I have no intention of quitting. But I will say, you're wasting your breath in trying to rally today's society to the idea that meeting and overcoming challenges can be personally fulfilling. Whether it's amateur radio or something else, imposing a challenge is highly unpopular as is the concept of having to earn a place within a group or organization.

Bringing General Patton into the discussion isn't likely to help much either. Predicted response: "Who cares about some old guy who fought Indians back in the 1800s?" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Anyway, face it. Morse testing is dead. The skill itself will be around for many years to come and will be enjoyed by the few who decide to take up the challenge and learn it.

[AB8RU]

Quote[/b] (kc7eku @ Jan. 26 2007,00:31)]I am confused?? USCG Volunteers?? #Last time I checked the USCG is military (debate for another thread).

Anyways, as far as Code being taught and/or used in the USCG... it is not... They no longer have Radioman (RM's) they became Telecommunitcations Specialists (TC's) and then changed again to Operational Specialists (OS's). #I believe they stoped teaching code back in the early 90's when I came in, and most of the OS's now dont know the first thing about radios (just an observation).

Well, I am going to take my element 1 in the next few weeks. #Its been hard to complete with moving around so much, and just recently got back into the hobby since all my radios were stolen in a move a few years back.

73's
Jay
I really am not aware of classifications etc or if USCG was still into the Code is why I asked for input Thanks for your response great way to share stuff anyway like I said I am trying to keep people from quitting and their background is greatly appreciated, I had a VE who was a ham back in the 40's stilll as a VE and active in radio I am ulitilizing means to let people know its not time to quit rather to stay the course every person is a value of some sort except for those who want to lessen the pleasure of others and thats the Role of the OO and the FCC .

Thanks again for your feedback.

[KI4PEQ]

About the only military types who use Morse are special forces and special operations pukes. And I say that with great admiration for those guys.

[kc7eku]

AB8RU / No probs...

Here's a link for the USCG CW Assoc... has some tidbits on when the last use of morse was in 1995, and other stuff...

http://www.comm-one.org/links.htm

[AB8RU]

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Jan. 26 2007,00:52)]First of all, I have no intention of quitting. But I will say, you're wasting your breath in trying to rally today's society to the idea that meeting and overcoming challenges can be personally fulfilling. Whether it's amateur radio or something else, imposing a challenge is highly unpopular as is the concept of having to earn a place within a group or organization.

Bringing General Patton into the discussion isn't likely to help much either. Predicted response: "Who cares about some old guy who fought Indians back in the 1800s?" #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Anyway, face it. Morse testing is dead. The skill itself will be around for many years to come and will be enjoyed by the few who decide to take up the challenge and learn it.
Mainly keeping those who earned their license awhile back or even recently. However I still hold my beliefs I made Extra and I still want to get more involved, I also have ventured more into other feilds. Nothing wrong with that ? sure not every ham is going to use a computer I know that thats their opinion I decided to persue further why ? because I decided to go for the next goal in life, other people still enjoy life doing stuff. its called Self Disipline I know G West has an article in the Extra book called Going further. again the Air Force was mentioned in the book I discussed earlier I'll challenge you to read the article.

Thanks for your feed back.

[KM5FL]

Quote[/b] (AB8RU @ Jan. 25 2007,21:53)]I really am not aware of classifications etc or if USCG was still into the Code is why I asked for input Thanks for your response great way to share stuff anyway like I said I am trying to keep people from quitting and their background is greatly appreciated, I had a VE who was a ham back in the 40's stilll as a VE and active in radio I am ulitilizing means to let people know its not time to quit rather to stay the course every person is a value of some sort except for those who want to lessen the pleasure of others and thats the Role of the OO and the FCC .
I have a problem understanding what it is you're trying to say here. Not to critize you, but my high school English teacher used the term "run-on sentences" to describe your style of writing... Do you believe the role of OOs and the FCC is to lessen the pleasure of others?? If I'm understanding you correctly, please explain how you came to this conclusion..


KM5FL

[N2RJ]

I'm not a quitter.

However, I have no intention of trying to prevent people from leaving.

Their license, their money, their equipment, their time. I have ZERO say in how they use any of those.

[N8CPA]

The last USCG Coast Guard CW transmission took place on April 1, 1995. If you check the FISTS website, you can find a transcript of it.

And GLD Jim Weaver sent me an email. He's trying to put together VE teams to conduct in person qualifying runs--a field test, anyway. I hope the program gets off the ground.

[KC5SAS]

Quote[/b] (kc7eku @ Jan. 25 2007,19:31)]I am confused?? USCG Volunteers?? #Last time I checked the USCG is military (debate for another thread).
May have been refering to the unpaid, volunteer Coast Guard Auxiliary.

[K7JEM]

Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one confused here.

General Patton? USCG volunteers? Big Rapids Public Schools?

I am really having a hard time figuring out what is trying to be said. Perhaps the public school there is not big into grammar, punctuation, spelling, composition and sentence structure.

Joe

[kg4dci]

Oh boy, talk about living in the past...

Military - No code for over a decade other than *maybe* 18E's and I'm not even sure they learn it anymore.

CAP - No code taught as part of the communications program at least since 1990, and probably for a long time before that.

USCGAux - My guess is that they stopped using it sometime around 1995 with the rest of the CG if not sooner...

Look, I don't want to see anybody quit ham radio... If they can get over living in the past, I'm more than willing to welcome them into the 21st Century hobby...

But, if you're looking for somebody in the government that is using CW for wide scale communications and training a large number of RO's to use it... You're out of luck it's just not going to happen..

Other than spy work/SpecOps in the military you're not going to find CW being used as a primary or backup mode of operation... I'm sure CW is fun, but the requirement is gone, and if you can't see that really came a decade late to this hobby, there is something wrong with your ability to process the reality we all live in.

[ky5u]

Disclaimer: If you're the sensitive type, perhaps you should skip this message.

Personally I never even considered "quitting". All the talk about where CW might still be used is just flapping your gums. It is used in Amateur Radio and is still by far the second most popular mode.

At this point, my perfect world looks like:

1. You like CW use it. I will.
2. You hate CW, then don't use it.
3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
4. You want to learn CW, then Cool!
5. You don't want to learn CW, then ok too.
6. Mind your own business, do your own thing.
7. Do your best to ensure ALL modes are available into the future.
8. Don't be greedy.
9. Be nice.
10. Have fun.

[K7KBN]

"Who is going to Elmer the newbies..."?

Since most any hotshot new Tech will freely admit he knows more than any of us OFs and has all the answers, I see no need to waste MY time.

[ne6ao]

A coupla ideas that may help is 1 ;when ever I upgraded i WOULD GET A FREE COPY OF WORLD RADIO AND an invitation to join arrl.Keeping in the same vein why not send a copy of the ham clubs in their area.Im sure that the clubs would welcome the new guys,(most anyway)But there are some who run repeaters and would really help the ne guy .Just a thought,and maybe a post from the fcc on the arrl site that would post the new ham licenses,on a monthly basis,and the clubs if they wanted to could see whos new and send them a copy of the clubs newsletter .I found out by going on the local reptr when I was new and there was a club who ran it open to all who wanted to use it,and made a coupla friends that way also.Some are open and some are closed to non members.To you new guys reading this,its also up to you to avail yourself of the treasure trove of experience that is to be gained here and locally where you live.Keep asking questions some one will help you and encourage you on.The code eventually will be an elite group who after a while will be a way to have secure communications from those who cant copy.I suspect that the lure of code with its history and those unable to copy it ,That fact alone ,something you can use in public that unlike a repeater where anybody can hear what your saying ,most wont know what your saying ,has some intrige with it.Especially to the youngsters,my 6 yr old grandson wants to learn it.Its a way to gain self esteem for a youngster who can do something that most or all of his friends cant do.How do you think a kid whos 7-10 yrs old would feel after talkin to a foreign country with cw? I rest my case.

[N8CPA]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 26 2007,13:11)]Disclaimer: If you're the sensitive type, perhaps you should skip this message.

Personally I never even considered "quitting". All the talk about where CW might still be used is just flapping your gums. #It is used in Amateur Radio and is still by far the second most popular mode.

At this point, my perfect world looks like:

1. You like CW use it. #I will.
2. You hate CW, then don't use it.
3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
4. You want to learn CW, then Cool!
5. You don't want to learn CW, then ok too.
6. Mind your own business, do your own thing.
7. Do your best to ensure ALL modes are available into the future.
8. Don't be greedy.
9. Be nice.
10. Have fun.
I would add to that, if you're going to use a computer on-air for any sound card mode, make sure your event sounds do not get transmitted on the digital frequencies.
They are wideband audio, as opposed to your authorized digital formats.

[PE1RDW]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 26 2007,19:11)]3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
In you perfect world are narow data modes like psk31 still alowed in the CW/data bands? (most sit around the digital wateringholes anyway) and if yes what is your prefered distance from your CW qso (psk31 tends to need less guardroom then CW qsos)

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Jan. 26 2007,11:25)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 26 2007,13:11)]Disclaimer: If you're the sensitive type, perhaps you should skip this message.

Personally I never even considered "quitting". All the talk about where CW might still be used is just flapping your gums. It is used in Amateur Radio and is still by far the second most popular mode.

At this point, my perfect world looks like:

1. You like CW use it. I will.
2. You hate CW, then don't use it.
3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
4. You want to learn CW, then Cool!
5. You don't want to learn CW, then ok too.
6. Mind your own business, do your own thing.
7. Do your best to ensure ALL modes are available into the future.
8. Don't be greedy.
9. Be nice.
10. Have fun.
I would add to that, if you're going to use a computer on-air for any sound card mode, make sure your event sounds do not get transmitted on the digital frequencies.
They are wideband audio, as opposed to your authorized digital formats.
And, except on 10 meters, the Techs can only use CW. Injecting a tone into a SSB transmitter is not CW. They need to figure out how to key the transmitter directly. This is not hard if you have one of the common rig interfaces or can figure out how to wire something simple.

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Jan. 26 2007,13:01)]And, except on 10 meters, the Techs can only use CW. Injecting a tone into a SSB transmitter is not CW. They need to figure out how to key the transmitter directly. This is not hard if you have one of the common rig interfaces or can figure out how to wire something simple.
(1) CW. International Morse code telegraphy
emissions having designators
with A, C, H, J or R as the first symbol;
1 as the second symbol; A or B as the
third symbol; and emissions J2A and
J2B.

J2A is a single sideband emission with a single tone modulating it, being keyed by hand.

That is precisely how many SSB transmitters develop CW.

Joe

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Jan. 26 2007,13:01)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 26 2007,19:11)]3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
In you perfect world are narow data modes like psk31 still alowed in the CW/data bands? (most sit around the digital wateringholes anyway) and if yes what is your prefered distance from your CW qso (psk31 tends to need less guardroom then CW qsos)
Yes, but foreigners are not unless they are good DX on CW.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

Yes, I also am at a loss over this bit of writing.
This is worse than the old Cowthief posts on the batlounge, and that was usually on the fly translations from Arabic to English from several Arab hams, no one person is Cowthief.
And, yes, the CAP has done away with CW training altogether.
This was done so long ago that a lot of new members do not even know how a bug or paddles works.

[W1RKW]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Jan. 26 2007,10:11)]Disclaimer: If you're the sensitive type, perhaps you should skip this message.

Personally I never even considered "quitting". All the talk about where CW might still be used is just flapping your gums. It is used in Amateur Radio and is still by far the second most popular mode.

At this point, my perfect world looks like:

1. You like CW use it. I will.
2. You hate CW, then don't use it.
3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
4. You want to learn CW, then Cool!
5. You don't want to learn CW, then ok too.
6. Mind your own business, do your own thing.
7. Do your best to ensure ALL modes are available into the future.
8. Don't be greedy.
9. Be nice.
10. Have fun.
I'd move "Have fun" to the #1 spot.

[k2bt]

Army Mars no longer uses cw at all,only voice and the other digital modes

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (W1RKW @ Jan. 28 2007,04:42)]1. You like CW use it. I will.
2. You hate CW, then don't use it.
3. Non CW modes please do not QRM CW bands. Please?
4. You want to learn CW, then Cool!
5. You don't want to learn CW, then ok too.
6. Mind your own business, do your own thing.
7. Do your best to ensure ALL modes are available into the future.
8. Don't be greedy.
9. Be nice.
10. Have fun.
I'd move "Have fun" to the #1 spot.[/QUOTE]
Of course, that puts "Be nice" dead last! Perhaps that is appropriate! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KD5NCO]

The Army Signal Center at Fort Gordon no longer has a Morse Code class in any MOS POI #(Military Occupational Specialty Program of Instruction). However the Army Intelligence Center at Fort Huachuca still teaches the skill to signals intercept analysts.

Mostly this is receive and transcribe only and usually at very very fast speeds. The Army no longer needs for radio operators to "send" CW Morse code. 99% of all transmissions are frequency hopping fully encrypted burst mode terrestrial HF/VHF/UHF or they are Satellite sent fully encrypted. #

To this day, intercepting signals sent in the clear by hand are still best received by ear. I work with several of these guys and they do not have a job any of you CW MC aficionados want. #Day in and day out listening and transcribing gibberish for others to code break and analyze. Many of these folks end up being very weird and disassociated with humanity. They are rapidly moving to computer interpretation softwares, but as expected, this only works well against machine sent CW bursts. You would be amazed at how many Embassies, Governments and Foreign Military use CW/MC still. Very little is in the clear and not heavily coded (pardon the pun)

The first time I went through the aircrew survival training in the 70s there were "familiarization " classes for Morse Code using the survival radio. #The last time I went for a refresher course in the 90s that training was not offered.

Making do with McGuyver type RF emitters and having the skill to send messages in Morse Code is a good set of skills for your kit if you are prone to be in a survival environment. Or you can spend your dollars for fool proof work anywhere technology based communications needs. Sat phones and personal distress/locater beacons come to mind.

There will always be a need (diminishing by technology) and an interest, be it for survival or nostalgic fun to learn and use CW/MC.

I bet nostalgic fun continues for decades just because #World Wide Amateur Radio exists, test or no test, many thousands of Amateurs around the world will continue to gravitate to this mode just for the pure simplistic fun of it.