Linux, Windows and DST

[n2ize]

This concerns people in the USA that observe Daylight Savings Time As most of you are probably already aware due to recent legislative changes starting this year (2007) daylight savings time begins a month earlier and ends a month later. This year DST will begin on March 11, and end on Nov 4th. As a result some devices and computer software that switch between daylight and standard time will have to be updated.

All my Linux machines running Fedora Core 1 through Fedora Core 3 needed to be fixed. My laptop running Fedora Core 5 was good to go with the new switch over dates.

On Fedora or Redhat boxes to check to see if you need to update run the following:

$ zdump -v EST5EDT | grep '2007'

if you see switchover dates showing March 11 and Nov 4 you don;t need to update. However if you see April and October you need to update. If you are in Mountain time just change EST and EDT to MST and MDT or PST PDT for pacific time, etc.

The file that needs to be updated is called "tzdata" On redhat or fedora just download an updated tzdata rpm package containing the updated time info.

For other distros the process is somewhat similar.

For Windows I have no idea what to do. I assume the patch is probably in one of many Microsoft automatic updates but then again, knowing Microsoft who knows.

[KI4GST]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 23 2007,18:04)]For Windows I have no idea what to do. I assume the patch is probably in one of many Microsoft automatic updates but then again, knowing Microsoft who knows.
There is an update for windows but unless you check for it you won't have it. Dig this junk they don't have it in the auto updates it is in noncritical updates so you must go to their website to get it.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (KI4GST @ Jan. 23 2007,17:57)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 23 2007,18:04)]For Windows I have no idea what to do. I assume the patch is probably in one of many Microsoft automatic updates but then again, knowing Microsoft who knows.
There is an update for windows but unless you check for it you won't have it. Dig this junk they don't have it in the auto updates it is in noncritical updates so you must go to their website to get it.
Bet it goes "critical" before the time change. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob

[N2RJ]

We have approximately 250ish Solaris machines left to patch at work.

It's not going to be easy, but on the bright side, I'll probably be able to afford my Icom 7800 and a nice tower to go with it when I'm done with all of the overtime I'll be making.

Windows here is patched.

For Windows, go to microsoft.com and search for KB928388

My Linux servers (Mandriva and Debian) are OK.

At work I also maintain SuSE Linux machines. They're patched too.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 23 2007,18:04)]This concerns people in the USA that observe Daylight Savings Time A
Actually you are incorrect.

The USA is just one of the countries that is changing.

Linky (http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-26-102775-1)

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 23 2007,18:41)]We have approximately 250ish Solaris machines left to patch at work.

It's not going to be easy, but on the bright side, I'll probably be able to afford my Icom 7800 and a nice tower to go with it when I'm done with all of the overtime I'll be making.

Windows here is patched.

For Windows, go to microsoft.com and search for KB928388

My Linux servers (Mandriva and Debian) are OK.

At work I also maintain SuSE Linux machines. They're patched too.
In addition to the operating system there may be some software apps that need to be patched or updated. For those using running Java apps the JRE (Java Runtime Environment) may need to be updated (or so I have heard) but I am still not 100% sure about this.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 23 2007,23:08)]Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 23 2007,18:41)]We have approximately 250ish Solaris machines left to patch at work.

It's not going to be easy, but on the bright side, I'll probably be able to afford my Icom 7800 and a nice tower to go with it when I'm done with all of the overtime I'll be making.

Windows here is patched.

For Windows, go to microsoft.com and search for KB928388

My Linux servers (Mandriva and Debian) are OK.

At work I also maintain SuSE Linux machines. They're patched too.
In addition to the operating system there may be some software apps that need to be patched or updated. For those using running Java apps the JRE (Java Runtime Environment) may need to be updated (or so I have heard) but I am still not 100% sure about this.
Here (http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/USDST/) is the fix for JRE.

I always try to run the latest version anyway.

The app guys at work have already fixed their end. They patch their own apps, not us. We just deal the with OS.

Here (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/timezone/dst2007.mspx) is what is needed for Microsoft products. As you can see, very few applications are impacted, because most are OS dependent for time zone settings anyway.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]$ zdump -v EST5EDT | grep '2007'

if you see switchover dates showing March 11 and Nov #4 you don;t need to update. However if you see April and October you need to update. If you are in Mountain time just change EST and EDT to MST and MDT or PST PDT for pacific time, etc.

You have to change the number as well.
For me in the central timezone the command would be $ zdump -v CST6CDT | grep '2007'. Linux and Unix both keep UTC time and adjust from there for local time.

[al2i]

Where I live, in the summertime High Noon occurs sometime around 14:00 hours. Instead of getting up earlier and going to bed at a decent hour, people need to have politicians adjust the laws of time. Ben Franklin should be ashamed!

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 24 2007,06:33)]Where I live, in the summertime High Noon occurs sometime around 14:00 hours. Instead of getting up earlier and going to bed at a decent hour, people need to have politicians adjust the laws of time. Ben Franklin should be ashamed!
Actually Franklin suggested DST as a means of conserving lamp oil. Less hitching up the hawses and making trips to the general store to purchase lamp oil. It also fit into the agrarian lifestyle, or so they say.

Personally I don't like DST. I like an earlier sunset and a longer night. My biggest gripes about summer is that it's too darned hot and, the days are way too long. And now we have to put up with two extra months of this obsolete DST crud.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 24 2007,11:15)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 24 2007,06:33)]Where I live, in the summertime High Noon occurs sometime around 14:00 hours. Instead of getting up earlier and going to bed at a decent hour, people need to have politicians adjust the laws of time. Ben Franklin should be ashamed!
Actually Franklin suggested DST as a means of conserving lamp oil. Less hitching up the hawses and making trips to the general store to purchase lamp oil. It also fit into the agrarian lifestyle, or so they say.

Personally I don't like DST. I like an earlier sunset and a longer night. My biggest gripes about summer is that it's too darned hot and, the days are way too long. And now we have to put up with two extra months of this obsolete DST crud.
How is DST going to change the length of the night?

[K0RGR]

This change just added another whole layer of complexity for large systems people who often deal with multi-partitioned machines. It's not at all uncommon for different partitions to be running in different time zones. I have one customer with several huge machines where the partitions are organized by state, and each partition runs on the local time zone for the state they're in.
Throw in a few non-U.S. locations that will NOT be changing to DST at the same time as the U.S. one, plus states like Indiana where it is not one consistent time zone, and you have a real challenge.

Why do we care? People usually want accurate time stamps on their transactions for legal reasons.

Some big application programs don't handle DST well, at all, either. They don't like it when time backs up in the fall.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,16:24)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 24 2007,11:15)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 24 2007,06:33)]Where I live, in the summertime High Noon occurs sometime around 14:00 hours. #Instead of getting up earlier and going to bed at a decent hour, people need to have politicians adjust the laws of time. #Ben Franklin should be ashamed!
Actually Franklin suggested DST as a means of conserving lamp oil. Less hitching up the hawses and making trips to the general store to purchase lamp oil. It also fit into the agrarian lifestyle, or so they say.

Personally I don't like DST. I like an earlier sunset and a longer night. #My biggest gripes about summer #is that it's too darned hot and, the days are way too long. And now we have to put up with two extra months of this obsolete DST crud.
How is DST going to change the length of the night?
It doesn't. It just changes the length of the day.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Jan. 24 2007,16:28)]Some big application programs don't handle DST well, at all, either. They don't like it when time backs up in the fall.
I remember one year that all the license servers quit serving licenses because the time was set back. This could have been used to extend license periods.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Jan. 24 2007,11:43)]Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,16:24)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 24 2007,11:15)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 24 2007,06:33)]Where I live, in the summertime High Noon occurs sometime around 14:00 hours. Instead of getting up earlier and going to bed at a decent hour, people need to have politicians adjust the laws of time. Ben Franklin should be ashamed!
Actually Franklin suggested DST as a means of conserving lamp oil. Less hitching up the hawses and making trips to the general store to purchase lamp oil. It also fit into the agrarian lifestyle, or so they say.

Personally I don't like DST. I like an earlier sunset and a longer night. My biggest gripes about summer is that it's too darned hot and, the days are way too long. And now we have to put up with two extra months of this obsolete DST crud.
How is DST going to change the length of the night?
It doesn't. It just changes the length of the day.
I know that.

But n2ize says he hates DST because it makes the nights shorter.

Which is wrong.

DST only changes the start and end times of the days.

Want a longer day? Get up earlier.

Want a longer night? Go to sleep later.

I like summertime because there's more outdoor time.

I hate wintertime because when I leave work it's already dark, and the days are so dreary.

[ab8ma]

We gain 2 minutes today. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I was trying to say that changing the Day has no effect on Night. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Now back to balancing my checkbook.

[KI4GST]

I had another thought on this topic what about all the VCR's, clocks and all the other things that have clocks built into them that just happen to have the DST change times burnt onto the chip in them I now will have to get a new alarm clock that has served me well over the past 15 years but now it will no longer be able to keep time since it was programed to change the time on the now wrong dates and I don't even know if there is a way to change it since I have never had to set the thing. heck there isn't even buttons on it other than for the radio and CD player. Only thing I know was a setting to change time zone since it was set at the store and has always been right and no it doesn't use WWV just always kept time and always had a back up battery in it.

Like I said in another post they need to dump this DST junk. Your not saving anything.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KI4GST @ Jan. 24 2007,15:07)]I had another thought on this topic what about all the VCR's, clocks and all the other things that have clocks built into them that just happen to have the DST change times burnt onto the chip in them I now will have to get a new alarm clock that has served me well over the past 15 years but now it will no longer be able to keep time since it was programed to change the time on the now wrong dates and I don't even know if there is a way to change it since I have never had to set the thing. heck there isn't even buttons on it other than for the radio and CD player. Only thing I know was a setting to change time zone since it was set at the store and has always been right and no it doesn't use WWV just always kept time and always had a back up battery in it.

Like I said in another post they need to dump this DST junk. Your not saving anything.
Turn off DST and set the clocks manually like you used to do before.

I don't use my VCR anymore, do you?

For the rest of stuff there should be firmware updates available.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,10:01)]Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Jan. 24 2007,11:43)]Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,16:24)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 24 2007,11:15)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Jan. 24 2007,06:33)]Where I live, in the summertime High Noon occurs sometime around 14:00 hours. Instead of getting up earlier and going to bed at a decent hour, people need to have politicians adjust the laws of time. Ben Franklin should be ashamed!
Actually Franklin suggested DST as a means of conserving lamp oil. Less hitching up the hawses and making trips to the general store to purchase lamp oil. It also fit into the agrarian lifestyle, or so they say.

Personally I don't like DST. I like an earlier sunset and a longer night. My biggest gripes about summer is that it's too darned hot and, the days are way too long. And now we have to put up with two extra months of this obsolete DST crud.
How is DST going to change the length of the night?
It doesn't. It just changes the length of the day.
I know that.

But n2ize says he hates DST because it makes the nights shorter.

Which is wrong.

DST only changes the start and end times of the days.

Want a longer day? Get up earlier.

Want a longer night? Go to sleep later.

I like summertime because there's more outdoor time.

I hate wintertime because when I leave work it's already dark, and the days are so dreary.
Actually DST doesn't change anything with regards to a "day". A "day" is a time period we use to mark time, DST no more changes the length of a "day" any more than it changes the length of a minute, an hour or a second.

I was referring to the romantic aspects of day versus night as in , "she ponders the endless day to be with her love by night", etc. The way humans perceive times, schedules and the dark of night, the light of day.

For me I perceive summer days as too lengthy for my liking. Of course most humans prefer seemingly longer periods of daylight and of course the longer periods of sun during summer months. I am just the opposite, I prefer longer periods of darkness. I always preferred night to day, I find night to be more comforting for whatever reasons. I also feel more alert and energetic at night. I seem to be at my best potential during the night time and I tend to do my best work at night. I even prefer places like the beach or outdoor parks more by night than by day.

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Jan. 23 2007,19:06)]Quote[/b] (KI4GST @ Jan. 23 2007,17:57)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 23 2007,18:04)]For Windows I have no idea what to do. I assume the patch is probably in one of many Microsoft automatic updates but then again, knowing Microsoft who knows.
There is an update for windows but unless you check for it you won't have it. Dig this junk they don't have it in the auto updates it is in noncritical updates so you must go to their website to get it.
Bet it goes "critical" before the time change. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob
No, all you have to do is a manual time change. Big deal. You had to do that years ago when the software was not as advanced as it is now. Think of those people in Indiana where one part of the state was on DST and the other half wasn't, and those states who don't use DST at all.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 24 2007,15:29)]Actually DST doesn't change anything with regards to a "day". A "day" is a time period we use to mark time, DST no more changes the length of a "day" any more than it changes the length of a minute, an hour or a second.
DST changes the effective start and end of daylight hours. That's what I meant.

I never said that it changes the length. That would be absurd.

Quote[/b] ]
I was referring to the romantic aspects of day versus night as in , "she ponders the endless day to be with her love by night", etc. The way humans perceive times, schedules and the dark of night, the light of day.

That's also what I said.

Quote[/b] ]For me I perceive summer days as too lengthy for my liking. Of course most humans prefer seemingly longer periods of daylight and of course the longer periods of sun during summer months. I am just the opposite, I prefer longer periods of darkness. I always preferred night to day, I find night to be more comforting for whatever reasons. I also feel more alert and energetic at night. I seem to be at my best potential during the night time and I tend to do my best work at night. I even prefer places like the beach or outdoor parks more by night than by day.

Well that's just tough.

The new DST changes are designed to save energy by tricking us into going to bed earlier and getting up earlier.

You can still have your romantic ideal, the time on your watch just wouldn't match.

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,15:16)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 24 2007,15:29)]Actually DST doesn't change anything with regards to a "day". A "day" is a time period we use to mark time, DST no more changes the length of a "day" any more than it changes the length of a minute, an hour or a second.
DST changes the effective start and end of daylight hours. That's what I meant.

I never said that it changes the length. That would be absurd.

Quote[/b] ]
I was referring to the romantic aspects of day versus night as in , "she ponders the endless day to be with her love by night", etc. The way humans perceive times, schedules and the dark of night, the light of day.

That's also what I said.

Quote[/b] ]For me I perceive summer days as too lengthy for my liking. Of course most humans prefer seemingly longer periods of daylight and of course the longer periods of sun during summer months. I am just the opposite, I prefer longer periods of darkness. I always preferred night to day, I find night to be more comforting for whatever reasons. I also feel more alert and energetic at night. I seem to be at my best potential during the night time and I tend to do my best work at night. I even prefer places like the beach or outdoor parks more by night than by day.

Well that's just tough.

The new DST changes are designed to save energy by tricking us into going to bed earlier and getting up earlier.

You can still have your romantic ideal, the time on your watch just wouldn't match.
Quote[/b] ]
Well that's just tough.


What's tough about it ? I never said that I expect humans to give up their preference for sun to accomodate my preference for dark. I fully accept the fact that I am the oddball out and most people prefer sunshine to shadow. As for me I prefer shadow to sun so I make the best of what is. DST never tricked or induced me to get up earlier or go to bed later. If I am enjoying the night I might just stay up a few hours later and, schedule permitting sleep an extra hour the next morning or, simply make do with less sleep. Either way the new DST is no big deal. Besides, it will save money on candles and lamp oil.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Jan. 24 2007,15:01)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Jan. 23 2007,19:06)]Quote[/b] (KI4GST @ Jan. 23 2007,17:57)]Quote[/b] (n2ize @ Jan. 23 2007,18:04)]For Windows I have no idea what to do. I assume the patch is probably in one of many Microsoft automatic updates but then again, knowing Microsoft who knows.
There is an update for windows but unless you check for it you won't have it. Dig this junk they don't have it in the auto updates it is in noncritical updates so you must go to their website to get it.
Bet it goes "critical" before the time change. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob
No, all you have to do is a manual time change. Big deal. You had to do that years ago when the software was not as advanced as it is now. Think of those people in Indiana where one part of the state was on DST and the other half wasn't, and those states who don't use DST at all.
True, but what I meant was that Microsoft will probably "push" it as a critical update before the time comes when it's needed.

If they're smart. Hmmm. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I've been out of the server biz for some time (and loving it, BTW), but don't workstations sync time to the domain in MS enterprise systems? If so, you'd only have to update the servers. If not, shame on MS.

73, Rob

[KI4GST]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,15:16)]Quote[/b] (KI4GST @ Jan. 24 2007,15:07)]I had another thought on this topic what about all the VCR's, clocks and all the other things that have clocks built into them that just happen to have the DST change times burnt onto the chip in them I now will have to get a new alarm clock that has served me well over the past 15 years but now it will no longer be able to keep time since it was programed to change the time on the now wrong dates and I don't even know if there is a way to change it since I have never had to set the thing. heck there isn't even buttons on it other than for the radio and CD player. Only thing I know was a setting to change time zone since it was set at the store and has always been right and no it doesn't use WWV just always kept time and always had a back up battery in it.

Like I said in another post they need to dump this DST junk. Your not saving anything.
Turn off DST and set the clocks manually like you used to do before.

I don't use my VCR anymore, do you?

For the rest of stuff there should be firmware updates available.
Well I personally don't use my VCR other than to play old movies I haven't gotten on DVD yet so a no issue for me but I was referring to people that still do. As for the alarm clock done checked no way to kill the Auto DST in it just the way that thing was made as for firmware a lot of thing don't have reprogrammed firmware I would love to see how much electronics end up in the dump this year becouse of out of date time keeping.

[K9STH]

Texas also is "split" into two time zones. Culberson County eastward is in the Central Time Zone and Hudspeth County westward is in the Mountain Time Zone.

Glen, K9STH

[ke4pjw]

I always thought the localtime information was a part of the glibc package and located in /etc/localtime

Mmmmm, time to go learn something new http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Thanks!

** Update **

Yes, the timezone tables are located in /usr/share/zoneinfo

The tzdata rpm updates those tables. As it is not architecture dependent, I updated my Yellowdog PPC box with the FC6 RPM http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (Although it did have an unneeded dependency on the glibc-common package. --nodeps for me)

Before Quote[/b] ]CST5CDT Sun Apr 1 06:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Apr 1 01:59:59 2007 CST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
CST5CDT Sun Apr 1 07:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Apr 1 03:00:00 2007 CDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
CST5CDT Sun Oct 28 05:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Oct 28 01:59:59 2007 CDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
CST5CDT Sun Oct 28 06:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Oct 28 01:00:00 2007 CST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
AfterQuote[/b] ]CST5CDT Sun Mar 11 06:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 01:59:59 2007 CST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
CST5CDT Sun Mar 11 07:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 03:00:00 2007 CDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
CST5CDT Sun Nov 4 05:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:59:59 2007 CDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
CST5CDT Sun Nov 4 06:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Nov 4 01:00:00 2007 CST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000


Nice! Thanks!

[WD8OQX]

Get this, my Linux (fedora 5) is A-OK but my XP-SP1, thanks to MACROSHAFTS "infinite wisdom", can't be fixed as they aren't supporting it any more. Same with 98se, NT & of course 95. & some server & other stuff.

Do a google on DST updates XP for more info.

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]'ve been out of the server biz for some time (and loving it, BTW), but don't workstations sync time to the domain in MS enterprise systems? #If so, you'd only have to update the servers. #If not, shame on MS.
Yes they do.
Linkage (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windowsserver2003/technologies/security/ws03mngd/26_s3wts.mspx)

[KI4PEQ]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Jan. 24 2007,18:08)]Texas also is "split" into two time zones. #Culberson County eastward is in the Central Time Zone and Hudspeth County westward is in the Mountain Time Zone.

Glen, K9STH
Florida is split between the Eastern and the Central Time Zones. That was a bone of contention in the 2000 presidential election, when the pundits called the election for Gore based on the exit polls in the southern part of the state, which is largely Democratic. The problem was the polls were still open in the panhandle, which is predominately Republican.

I did love to see all of those network commentators backpedal about the results.

[k7unz]

Or,.......you could just move to Arizona or Hawaii (couple of other places too....) and not bother with this twice-a-year madness.

Jim/k7unz http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n2ize]

Quote[/b] (WD8OQX @ Jan. 25 2007,13:36)]Get this, my Linux (fedora 5) is A-OK but my XP-SP1, thanks to MACROSHAFTS "infinite wisdom", can't be fixed as they aren't supporting it any more. Same with 98se, NT & of course 95. & some server & other stuff.

Do a google on DST updates XP for more info.
Don't make me laugh. I have had the same problem with stuff here in which stuff that was supposedly "made for Windows" works better on Linux.

I had a sound card years back that I went crazy looking for a Windows driver for. Nothing worked and it took a good hour of hunting around before I found the right driver. On Linux the OS recognized the sound card instantly and viola' it was up and running.

Of course the goal in the MS world is to get you to buy something new.

[N2RJ]

Why don't you run SP2?

If you have a licensed copy of windows there's no reason to not run SP2.

[WD8OQX]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Jan. 24 2007,23:35)]Why don't you run SP2?

If you have a licensed copy of windows there's no reason to not run SP2.
Fair enough question & here is the answer...

I have a slew of programs on it that are "busted" under SP2. So I have no choice. It is either SP1 or not use the programs.