Holy-Class Operators

[kd0adz]

[B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff

[K7JEM]

OK dude, you're gonna get flamed for this post, and rightfully so.

The pro-code people are going through a stage of grief (some of them), and they're angry. Someone took their baby and whacked off its head, right in front of them. They have a right to be upset, at least for a while. You look to be a good target, so they take it out on you (NCT).

Give it a few days and the reality will kick in. Sure, some will be mad, but then there are still people angry about their Class A or First Phone going away.

So back off, smile, try not to rile the natives. All will be fine by the time this has been in effect for a few months, trust me. If some people still have a problem, then that's their issue to deal with, not yours.

Be cool, stay cool.

Joe

[w5alt]

Jeff, you'll find in all areas of society there are some people who are against other people. You'll also find that most people aren't against anyone who acts reasonably.

Amateur radio is the same way. Don't gage all of amateur radio by a few vocal terrorists on either side.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[k7mh]

I do not think many are against the people who hold the licenses, it is more about what the exams are or are not.
There is a lot of support for your endeavors in ham radio regardless of what you needed to know to become licensed. For me it was using the Bash book to get my extra. The reality is that it was not much different than using a question pool. So who cares?? Times is a' changin! Only my novice and advanced were decent tests, the general and extra written were a joke and poorly designed.

[KC9ECI]

Jeff-

have you ever tried a decaffinated coffee?

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,18:09)]Jeff-

have you ever tried a decaffinated coffee?
Without refined sugar?

[KC9ECI]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Dec. 20 2006,17:14)]Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,18:09)]Jeff-

have you ever tried a decaffinated coffee?
Without refined sugar?
Yes. Maybe a little honey if you just have to have something sweet.

[wg7x]

Joe's right: you're gonna get flamed big time and rightfully so.

So, I'll let the big time flamers get you...

But remember, you asked for it!

Call me anytime you hear me on HF. I don't give a rip what class your ticket is, if I'm calling CQ in your band segment, let's have a chat.

I'm not one of those fellows who checks you out in the data base before deciding to answer. I'll give you a chance first, and if you're a nice fellah, well then, we'll have a nice chat.

If you display the attitude on the air that you displayed here; well... let's just say you are going to be a lonely and bitter fellow before long!

73

Gary

[W0LC]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 20 2006,15:02)]Jeff, you'll find in all areas of society there are some people who are against other people. You'll also find that most people aren't against anyone who acts reasonably.

Amateur radio is the same way. Don't gage all of amateur radio by a few vocal terrorists on either side.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
Exactly Walt...you run into those that love to incite arguments and verbally abuse those they don't agree with them, as well as troll for others to draw them into a debate with no perceived rational outcome.

They only want what they want, won't read what is being posted, only read what they think is there.

They tend to suffer for perceived persecution complexes when in fact, they are self inflicted.

Very few ops out there have anything against any of the other license classes.

I think what you are seeing is individuals tired of the same old nonfactual rhethoric and being categorized, as you perceive yourself as being categorired.

Walt summed it up well.

Some times, one has to turn the dial when you encounter thei tripe on the bands, because, yes, they air it there too.

[K5FH]

Quote[/b] ]Holy-Class Operators, Why are they so against NCT's

You're up against human nature, Jeff. #It ain't gonna change any time soon.

You probably don't remember so-called "incentive licensing" (or, to use W2NSD's term, "punishment licensing") from the 1960s. #This was an ill-conceived ARRL and FCC idea aimed at upgrading the standards in Amateur Radio. #What it did, simply, was take away over half the privileges from the General Class (at that time the General conveyed all amateur privileges) and force Generals to upgrade to Advanced and Extra to get their privileges back.

The code/no-code bickering going on now sounds a lot like some of the arguments heard back then.

I took the 13WPM and 20WPM tests back in the 1970s when the tests were given by an FCC engineer and the tests back then included both sending and receiving.

Eventually the FCC switched from hard-copy receiving to a multiple-guess test on what was heard on the exam tape. #Their thinking was that most ham CW contacts aren't written down verbatim, anyway, so they made the test to be more in line with the way hams really operate.

Later on the FCC eliminated the sending portion of the code test. #I guess they figured that if you can receive, you can send. #Made sense.

The next big change was the volunteer examiner program for all amateur license classes. #This was doubtlessly a move to reduce the workload on the FCC field engineers.

Then they dropped the code speed requirement to 5WPM for ALL license classes.

The most recent (but, I'm afraid, not last) change was the elimination of the code requirement altogether.

Notice that the trend is steadily downward.

Now, put yourself in the position of an old timer who went through the licensing procedure in The Good Old Days as described above: "I busted my a$$ to learn code and now the FCC is saying all that effort was a waste! #Damn right I'm mad!"

But, in the grand scheme of things, what of it? #You took the test that was required at the time.

Just remember the old joke:

Q: What do you call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

A: "Doctor."

So don't let it worry you too much.

I would advise, as others have, that you try to hold down the angry rhetoric, especially on the air. #You won't win any friends that way.

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,14:47)],BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.


I can read,study and pass any exam,

I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no ! 13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
you claim you can pass any exam and at the same time
you claim you can't pass the element 1 exam.

make up your mind.

by the way,i only had to pass the general test once, and the extra test once. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KD8COO]

Don't worry. Eventually all the "coders" will die off and you can be the angry ham complaining about how extra licenses are now being given out in cereal boxes http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ab8ro]

blah blah blah, jesus who cares.


But, those quad banders are sure interesting little radios. I'm pretty sure they were made for the japanese market.

[KC2ESD]

KI4FDX if I hear you on 10M in the near future and if I can I will make contact with you. If you upgrade to General with out the code test and I hear you on 20M I will still make contact with you if I can. I don't care if the Ham on the other end took the Morse Code test or not, I will still make the contact. Others can flame me if they want but be warned, I have RED HAIR. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 de Rick KC2ESD

[KC9JIQ]

Urgh!!

First the FCC gives 11 meters to a new "CB" band! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Now drops the code! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Quote[/b] ]Don't worry. Eventually all the "coders" will die off and you can be the angry ham complaining about how extra licenses are now being given out in cereal boxes

AHAHAHAHAHA! But it won't be for another 40 or so years before the CW'ers die off. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ai4ep]

I have discovered that most of the " bad talkers " here on the computer were really nice when you hear them " on-the-air" .

They were and are polite & courteous when on the radio....no I aint talked to each and every one of them, but from what I have heard , they are ok with the microphone in their hand / on the desk .

I think if you will listen to some of the " bad boy " post perople on the internet you will HEAR them to be good / decent operaots when they are on the radio..................go listen for yourself.

You have everything to gain & nothing to lose.

[kd0adz]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ Dec. 20 2006,17:24)]KI4FDX if I hear you on 10M in the near future and if I can I will make contact with you. If you upgrade to General with out the code test and I hear you on 20M I will still make contact with you if I can. I don't care if the Ham on the other end took the Morse Code test or not, I will still make the contact. Others can flame me if they want but be warned, I have RED HAIR. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73 de Rick KC2ESD
Thank you Rick-KC2ESD
and a 73's and a very MERRY CHRISTMAS,too you.
My
Kenwood TS 660S covers 6/10/12/15...
But Im gonna save up an get a
Kenwood TS-930,I love that radio.
There needs to be more HAMS like you

Sincerely
KI4FDX--JeFF

[kd0adz]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 20 2006,15:47)]Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,14:47)],BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.


I can read,study and pass any exam,

I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no ! 13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
you claim you can pass any exam and at the same time
you claim you can't pass the element 1 exam. #

make up your mind.

by the way,i only had to pass the general test once, and the extra test once. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
KC0NBW
Your point understood..
I should have been more clear.
I can pass any WRITTEN EXAM.......
when it comes to code,im
Delta-Uniform-Mike-Bravo....

I really wanted to,too.
thanks for your feedback,it is what helps.
73's
K4FDX
P/s MERRY-CHRISTMAS!!!___http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC9ECI]

Jeff-

Just because it's not going to be a requirement, don't give up on it. Try to find someone else at about the same skill level, and practice on the air. It can be a fun mode. For what it's worth, I've never taken the time to look anyone up to see what their license class is before answering a CQ in any mode. I suspect that most don't.

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,17:09)]Jeff-

have you ever tried a decaffinated coffee?
Or lessons in proper punctuation? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[kd0adz]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 20 2006,15:02)]Jeff, you'll find in all areas of society there are some people who are against other people. You'll also find that most people aren't against anyone who acts reasonably.

Amateur radio is the same way. Don't gage all of amateur radio by a few vocal terrorists on either side.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
WALT
Thanks
you are correct,I didn't intend to sound like a madman,
But It's been building for a while and I wanted to just
tell only those it pertained too exactly how I felt...
Venting,in other words.
I had it rough in the Ham Club I was in,and I was so MAD when I couldn't Help on 14.325 during last years
Hurricanes because of this code,,but there were No
Coders there to pass emergency traffic,So Basically
one state and one or two HAMS worked it till they
nearly lost their voice....well enough said.

Thank you for your input,IT helped.
P/s MERRY CHRISTMAS
KI4FDX

[kd0adz]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,15:24)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Dec. 20 2006,17:14)]Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,18:09)]Jeff-

have you ever tried a decaffinated coffee?
Without refined sugar?
Yes. #Maybe a little honey if you just have to have something sweet.
POINT WEll taken,,
Coffee without caffine isn't coffee,is it?
hihi
Thanks
Merry Christmas
KI4FDX

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,19:03)]Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 20 2006,15:47)]Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,14:47)],BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.


I can read,study and pass any exam,

I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no ! 13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
you claim you can pass any exam and at the same time
you claim you can't pass the element 1 exam. #

make up your mind.

by the way,i only had to pass the general test once, and the extra test once. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
KC0NBW
Your point understood..
I should have been more clear.
I can pass any WRITTEN EXAM.......
when it comes to code,im
Delta-Uniform-Mike-Bravo....

I really wanted to,too.
thanks for your feedback,it is what helps.
73's
K4FDX
P/s MERRY-CHRISTMAS!!!___http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
but morse code at 5 wpm is simpler and takes less time to learn than the theory and rules etc. for the general test.

up until now,the fcc has always maintained that there is no one that ''can't ''learn the code at 5wpm if they want to.

they would issue a waiver for 13 and 20 but not for 5 wpm.

how is it that this country has come up with so many people that can't learn morse code in the last few years, it was never a major problem before.

i passed the code tests i have taken and if i can pass them, anyone can. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

when i went for the novice classes way back when, code was required and 100 percent of the people that took the code test passed it.

some had to try more than once but eventually they made it.


i just cannot understand how anyone could have such a low opinion of their learning abilities to say that there is something as simple as 5wpm code that they just can't learn.

i am not trying to run you or anyone else down, i just won't buy that kind of excuse from anyone because i don't think there is anyone that is not smart enough or has any kind of disability that would not allow them to learn morse code at 5 wpm.

[KC9ECI]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,21:21)]Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,15:24)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Dec. 20 2006,17:14)]Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,18:09)]Jeff-

have you ever tried a decaffinated coffee?
Without refined sugar?
Yes. #Maybe a little honey if you just have to have something sweet.
POINT WEll taken,,
Coffee without caffine isn't coffee,is it?
hihi
Thanks
Merry Christmas
KI4FDX
If I can't stand the spoon up in it, it isn't thick enough, and if it won't eat the finish off the spoon it isn't strong enough.

[kd0adz]

Quote[/b] (wg7x @ Dec. 20 2006,15:26)]Joe's right: you're gonna get flamed big time and rightfully so.

So, I'll let the big time flamers get you...

But remember, you asked for it!

Call me anytime you hear me on HF. I don't give a rip what class your ticket is, if I'm calling CQ in your band segment, let's have a chat.

I'm not one of those fellows who checks you out in the data base before deciding to answer. I'll give you a chance first, and if you're a nice fellah, well then, we'll have a nice chat.

If you display the attitude on the air that you displayed here; well... let's just say you are going to be a lonely and bitter fellow before long!

73

Gary
W7QX
GARY your right,but I have been Flamed already,,Thats
all also been building for a while,since last years storms.
That was me firing back,just once..
You ,However and Walt are very right.
Thank you for your input.
After I looked at it again,I remembered something about
chat/post,,Capital letters means your MAD,right.
or yelling?
Anyway Im done venting,I thought it had to be said and it did make me feel better,,,but I also learned alot today
thanks to all of you...
MERRY CHRISTMAS and 73's
KI4FDX

[ka8yit]

Hey Jeff good to see you on the thread, glad to see you made it home safe you should remember me I talk to you the other night on the 145.350 rept. in cinn.ohio be looking for you come back thru and looking foeward in working you on the hf bands when you get upgraded dont let them get you down with all the negative comments you hear or read keep it between the white lines in the big truck
73's
Terry KA8YIT

[N5PVL]

Another NCT vents.

[KA4DPO]

Prozac, it's not just for breakfast anymore.

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 20 2006,22:26)]how is it that this country has come up with so many people that can't learn morse code in the last few years, it was never a major problem before.
Well, what the FCC said this time was that none of the arguments for keeping the CW exam meant anything. Some arguments they explicitly said they didn't buy, others they remained silent on. A simplified summary of what I read in the R&O is basically that the only thing that matters is that CW testing is no longer required by international agreement and nothing else was important to them. Their decision had nothing to do with anything else, including people's ability (or lack of it) to learn Morse code.

Several people have said that here on QRZ many times. Although we may or may not agree, right or wrong, the FCC said it and that's all that matters.

It's done. It's time to get on with amateur radio and forget the CW testing battle. Nothing is going to change the decision.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 20 2006,20:01)].

It's done. It's time to get on with amateur radio and forget the CW testing battle. Nothing is going to change the decision.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
true, but maybe we can still get the non complainers that have the willingness to learn to take some pride in accomplishment and they will go on to bigger and better things in radio, i don't think there is any hope for the whiners however.

tomorrow i am going back to the v.a.hospital for a few days of tests and checkups.

i hope they don't keep me very long, christmas in the hospital is not any fun.

ceud mille failte and slainte mhor to all http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 20 2006,20:25)]Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 20 2006,20:01)].

It's done. It's time to get on with amateur radio and forget the CW testing battle. Nothing is going to change the decision.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
true, but maybe we can still get the non complainers that have the willingness to learn to take some pride in accomplishment and they will go on to bigger and better things in radio, i don't think there is any hope for the whiners however.

tomorrow i am going back to the v.a.hospital for a few days of tests and checkups.

i hope they don't keep me very long, christmas in the hospital is not any fun.

ceud mille failte and slainte mhor to all # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Sorry to hear that your going to the hospital, that's not a fun way to spend the holidays.

Hope you're out before Christmas and feeling well.


John.

[al2i]

VY VY 73 OM Walt

[n1ydx]

Quote[/b] ],,but there were No Coders there to pass emergency traffic,So Basically one state and one or two HAMS worked it till they nearly lost their voice....well enough said.

Reference above - with the code requirement gone, you're going to have to repeat that statement a lot in the future.

Don't strain learning morse code, make it fun. Go with a partner and send and receive jokes very slowly at first until you can send a little faster. Then you'll receive a little faster and then you'll pass a code test. Even if it is on the air.

N1YDX - Lee

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Dec. 20 2006,20:29)]Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 20 2006,20:25)]Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 20 2006,20:01)].

It's done. It's time to get on with amateur radio and forget the CW testing battle. Nothing is going to change the decision.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
true, but maybe we can still get the non complainers that have the willingness to learn to take some pride in accomplishment and they will go on to bigger and better things in radio, i don't think there is any hope for the whiners however.

tomorrow i am going back to the v.a.hospital for a few days of tests and checkups.

i hope they don't keep me very long, christmas in the hospital is not any fun.

ceud mille failte and slainte mhor to all # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Sorry to hear that your going to the hospital, that's not a fun way to spend the holidays. #

Hope you're out before Christmas and feeling well.


John.
i also have to see if i can get my wheelchair fixed or maybe they will give me a new one.

with any luck, i will not have to stay beyond the weekend but i never know until the last minute.

i have to get a new keyboard too, this one is driving me crazy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[NJ4R]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,14:47)][B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff
OK..the FCC has made it's ruling and we all need to stand by it. Good , Bad #or indifferent.

I normally don't get involved in these discussions but I have a question for all the NCT's out there...(I had a novice ticket in the 60's ,one of the questions on that test(novice test)was to identify a hartley oscillator circuit. My first transmitter was a 40 meter CW #on a punch chassis and a 6L6 tube. Plans came from a copy of Popular Communications. I left the hobby and returned a few years ago and started from where I left off) Yes I was first licensed in the stone age of ham radio, a 75 watt and crystal control novice.

What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code? Why would you want to use CW related signals when you aren't using CW? Is it you want other operators to "THINK" you know CW? If not what are your reasons for using them?

The question about HF and EmComm has been tossed into the fray. In all the EmComm training I have had I was taught to use clear/plain voice to pass messages. Q signals are frowned upon in real emergencies UNLESS you are sending CW.

What is this facination for NCT's wanting to interject "CW-isims" every chance they get but badmouth the code? Can someone enlighten me?

LAST but not least it's 73 NOT 73's if you're going to use CW slogans..PLEASE #get them accurate.

[KA4DPO]

FJT, well said....

BTW, I built a 6L6 TX also in 65. I actually worked some DX with that thing.

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,14:47)][B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff
I didn't bother reading any of the other replies, so forgive me if this is redundant:

I have nothing at all against NCTs or anyone else.

I do find it offensive, however, when a fellow American doesn't know how to write, spell, punctuate or form a proper sentence.

Dozens of examples are found in this posting. It is only for that reason that I probably wouldn't bother discussing anything with you on the air: I wouldn't understand what you're saying. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB2WIK/6

[k6az]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,21:16)]Jeff-

Just because it's not going to be a requirement, don't give up on it. #Try to find someone else at about the same skill level, and practice on the air. #It can be a fun mode. #For what it's worth, I've never taken the time to look anyone up to see what their license class is before answering a CQ in any mode. #I suspect that most don't.
I don't. I judge a station by his operation on the air.

If people are running other stations through the database before responding to them that is really petty.

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 20 2006,23:58)]I do find it offensive, however, when a fellow American doesn't know how to write, spell, punctuate or form a proper sentence.

Dozens of examples are found in this posting.
And many other examples, in many other postings, in other threads here on QRZ.

Frightening and sad, isn't it? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 20 2006,21:58)]I didn't bother reading any of the other replies, so forgive me if this is redundant:

I have nothing at all against NCTs or anyone else.

I do find it offensive, however, when a fellow American doesn't know how to write, spell, punctuate or form a proper sentence.

Dozens of examples are found in this posting. It is only for that reason that I probably wouldn't bother discussing anything with you on the air: I wouldn't understand what you're saying. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WB2WIK/6
You must realize that a person could be totally illiterate, yet be a wonderful person to talk with on the air.

Conversely, he could be a real jerk on the air, yet write in a very appealing way.

Joe

[N2RJ]

Jeff, I'll just have you know, it goes both ways.

I'm fed up of being flamed by whiny NCT's for "oppressing" them with the code.

I have NO problems with NCT's in general, just those that complain and whine like little children. You guys knew the code was going away, why was there a thread every week asking when and demanding that it go away?

Try to see it from our POV. I took two code tests and for me they were easy. But it took effort. Not any casual effort but I seriously buckled down in front of my C-64 and let it spit out random characters until I mastered the code. That was for 13WPM.

5WPM was so easy because I was already using the code.

So much of it isn't simply being upset with NCTs, but being fed up of the endless "are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?" types of threads.

Oh, and one more thing. Please lay off the "when a disaster hits we'll be there!!!" attitude as if we owe you something for your emergency assistance. It really is your obligation to assist in an emergency as part of having a ham license.

[PE1RDW]

Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 21 2006,05:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code? Why would you want to use CW related signals when you aren't using CW? Is it you want other operators to "THINK" you know CW? If not what are your reasons for using them?

The question about HF and EmComm has been tossed into the fray. In all the EmComm training I have had I was taught to use clear/plain voice to pass messages. Q signals are frowned upon in real emergencies UNLESS you are sending CW.

What is this facination for NCT's wanting to interject "CW-isims" every chance they get but badmouth the code? Can someone enlighten me?

LAST but not least it's 73 NOT 73's if you're going to use CW slogans..PLEASE #get them accurate.
There are 2 very good reasons for using Q codes in phone.

1) communication is on the edge of the noise making words sound the same, using nato spelling and Q codes still allow the QSO to be finished.

2) You and your QSO partner don't speak the same language, Q codes are the same in every language.

ofcourse the seccond reason might be rare for US operators in this part of the suncycle on HF and very rare on VHF and up (satalite and eme excepted).

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,22:28)]It really is your obligation to assist in an emergency as part of having a ham license.
Obligated to volunteer? Isn't that an oxymoron?

It is a perk to society for having amateur radio; those ops who are trained and volunteer their services during an emergency.

I've been told that the untrained should stay out of the way during an emergency, and since I believe that the vast majority of hams are not trained in emergency message handling, it follows that it is not an obligation of having a ticket, otherwise that training would be a part of qualifying for a license.

Kudos to you Jeff for being there, whether you could actually help or not.

Mike

[ae4fa]

Quote[/b] ]we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net

First of all, the HWN is not normally run from FL, but rather many far removed places all over North, Central, and South America.

Second, only members of the HWN are allowed to be NCs - and they must demonstrate that they are capable and responsible before becoming members.

Third, WX4NHC has plenty of volunteers who do quite a good job. There's never been a problem with personnel shortage.

Fourth, the HWN has never in its history suffered from a lack of NCs, although sometimes stations in affected areas are sometimes sparse because of conditions on the ground.

Fifth, you really should read up on what the HWN is and how it operates. Just because you don't hear anything doesn't mean nothing is going on. You must consider propagation and many other factors. Had you been able to get on 14.325, you would have only contributed to the QRM rather than 'helping.'

And, finally, just which storm affected FL during the recently passed season?

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 21 2006,04:46)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.
Yep.

I can read music.

That doesn't mean that I can identify the notes in music that I hear, nor does it mean that I can play any instrument.

Yes, with practice I might be able to learn to play some instrument from reading sheet music, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever be able to play such that anyone would want to listen.

And you might say that with practice that I could identify the notes heard. Tell that to a tone deaf person! Some people just can't.

I read so many times "If I can do code, anyone can!". Such a presumptuous statement! Not everyone is wired the same as everyone else.

If I can cook, anyone can! If I can sew, anyone can! If I can build a cabinet, anyone can! If I can handle a car at 120 mph, anyone can!

Some skills come to some people naturally. Some take work. Some take a lot of work. And some just can't be acquired by some people. We're all different.

Someone remarked about why it seems we relatively recently have all of these people who can't learn code. How do you know they haven't always been there, that there just hasn't been some medium such as the internet and this site for them to become visible? Prior to the internet, how would most HF ops have ever heard about people who just couldn't get code skills down? By definition they would not have heard from them on the air.

Mike

[KI4NNL]

Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 21 2006,04:57)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 21 2006,04:46)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.
Yep.

I can read music.

That doesn't mean that I can identify the notes in music that I hear, nor does it mean that I can play any instrument.

Yes, with practice I might be able to learn to play some instrument from reading sheet music, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever be able to play such that anyone would want to listen.

And you might say that with practice that I could identify the notes heard. Tell that to a tone deaf person! Some people just can't.

Mike
Nice reply. I am lucky in that I can 'hear' cw, and am working on learning it with not too many hitches. Music on the other hand, I am totally tone deaf, there is no way I can identify a note to save my life. I was in music classes for 2 years trying, and the music teacher finally pulled me aside and told me that I am one of the few who simply can't connect the sound to the note. I can enjoy music, but there is no way I can tell if I am playing it correctly, so that was something I had to give up trying to master. I am sure that some people think I simply didn't try, but when you have the ability to do something, it is very hard to imagine that someone may not have that same ability.

To me the code test would be like testing my ability to transcribe music as a prerequisite for owning a stereo, it just makes no sense.

[N5PVL]

WB2WIK says:
Quote[/b] ]
I do find it offensive, however, when a fellow American doesn't know how to write, spell, punctuate or form a proper sentence.

Dozens of examples are found in this posting.

I think that you are being way too hard on yourself. I checked your post and did not find any misspellings with the spelling checker from my word processing program.

I copied your text 5x5 OM, so post here with confidence!

Seriously:
It is good that you are aware and try to get things right, but just as is the case with CW, sometimes we have to slow down or attempt to speed up when copying the other fellow. We do this because communication with a fellow ham is the primary consideration, not the sending speed.

If you are working on the assumption that a ham whose spelling or grammar is not up to your specs should stifle themselves in the light of your superior skill, it seems to me that if they miss out on talking with you on account of your attitude, well then they haven't missed out on much.

Most tragic of all are those cases where the fellow can read or write OK, but he is so impressed with his own ability in this area that he looks down on everyone who is not up to his prissy little specs - so he fails to communicate in many instances where those he criticize can communicate quite well.

A lot of time and space is wasted on rants about poor spelling, etc.. - and I know that you would not want to be involved in anything like that.

Has anyone else noticed the way that spellling and grammar issues always seem to be brought up when the complainer is looking at a section of text that says something that he simply does not wish to hear?

That's human nature for you! - It can't be covered up any more than a kitten's pathetic attempt to cover up its mess by scratching at the carpet.

[NJ4R]

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Dec. 21 2006,02:22)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 21 2006,05:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code? Why would you want to use CW related signals when you aren't using CW? Is it you want other operators to "THINK" you know CW? If not what are your reasons for using them?

The question about HF and EmComm has been tossed into the fray. In all the EmComm training I have had I was taught to use clear/plain voice to pass messages. Q signals are frowned upon in real emergencies UNLESS you are sending CW.

What is this facination for NCT's wanting to interject "CW-isims" every chance they get but badmouth the code? Can someone enlighten me?

LAST but not least it's 73 NOT 73's if you're going to use CW slogans..PLEASE #get them accurate.
There are 2 very good reasons for using Q codes in phone.

1) communication is on the edge of the noise making words sound the same, using nato spelling and Q codes still allow the QSO to be finished.

2) You and your QSO partner don't speak the same language, Q codes are the same in every language.

ofcourse the seccond reason might be rare for US operators in this part of the suncycle on HF and very rare on VHF and up (satalite and eme excepted).
Andre, can you justify using Q signals on a local repeater where all the signals are full quieting? Where operators are saying "QST?" after every comment they make. To me that is a bit overboard.We are talking "repeater commandos" here, operators that think talking to the next towns repeater or echolink is DX. If or when they upgrade to the HF bands, where you have to pull out a signal sometimes I can see your point. I have no problem with NCT's and their reasons for not wanting to or not being able to learn CW and now that is a moot point, but give me a break...if you are not a CW op please don't use Q signals like they are the secret handshake of ham radio and you are the founding member.

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 21 2006,05:34)]if you are not a CW op please don't use Q signals like they are the secret handshake of ham radio and you are the founding member.
Phone ops have been using Q codes for as long as I can remember.

If you have a phone QSO (!), do you tell the other op that you will send some sort of written correspondence via the mail to him to confirm the contact, or do you discuss QSL's?

Ever use QRM, QRN?

Give me a break! It's all a part of our (ham) lexicon.

[af2cw]

While the use of Q signals can be justified depending on the conversation. I have heard numerous times people saying "QSL?", "yeah QSL QSL, I copy you". What's that all about? Can't people ask a simple question and then turn it over to the other party. Then reply, yes, I understand, or OK I got it, or just simply answer the bloody question. Even on repeaters, back when I used them, the same routine, using QSL like people had to show they knew what it meant. #

Even using QSO, on phone. How about, thanks for the chat OM, or thanks for the contact? Heck even some CW ops don't always say, tnx fer QSO. Sometimes it's, fb es tnx for the chat, or gud chatting with u es hpe cu agn. So please, limit the use of Q signals to where they are truly needed, not tossed around haphazardly to make folks think you are all that and then some.

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Dec. 21 2006,05:13)]WB2WIK says:
Quote[/b] ]
I do find it offensive, however, when a fellow American doesn't know how to write, spell, punctuate or form a proper sentence.

Dozens of examples are found in this posting.

I think that you are being way too hard on yourself. I checked your post and did not find any misspellings with the spelling checker from my word processing program.

I copied your text 5x5 OM, so post here with confidence!

Seriously:
It is good that you are aware and try to get things right, but just as is the case with CW, sometimes we have to slow down or attempt to speed up when copying the other fellow. We do this because communication with a fellow ham is the primary consideration, not the sending speed.

If you are working on the assumption that a ham whose spelling or grammar is not up to your specs should stifle themselves in the light of your superior skill, it seems to me that if they miss out on talking with you on account of your attitude, well then they haven't missed out on much.

Most tragic of all are those cases where the fellow can read or write OK, but he is so impressed with his own ability in this area that he looks down on everyone who is not up to his prissy little specs - so he fails to communicate in many instances where those he criticize can communicate quite well.

A lot of time and space is wasted on rants about poor spelling, etc.. - and I know that you would not want to be involved in anything like that.

Has anyone else noticed the way that spellling and grammar issues always seem to be brought up when the complainer is looking at a section of text that says something that he simply does not wish to hear?

That's human nature for you! - It can't be covered up any more than a kitten's pathetic attempt to cover up its mess by scratching at the carpet.
I'm not positive where Steve was coming from, but I also find it offensive, and it outrages me, when I read a post like that. NOT about or towards the poster, but the fact that presumably the op is at least a highschool graduate, and the fact that our system of education graduates people without even the fundmental skills to form a proper written communication in our language.

I don't mean proper from some strict rule point of view, but that I found that original post difficult to read, and the effort required makes it difficult to assimilate what the poster is trying to express.

Perhaps the poster is aware of this communication problem and is working on it. Perhaps he knows and doesn't care. Perhaps he was not aware that he had a problem, but awareness is dawning.

Certainly everyone is welcome to post, but this site is based on nothing but written communications, and if a post is difficult to read, I see nothing wrong with pointing that out. Readers are not obligated to expend effort trying to read a post. It is the poster's obligation, if he or she wants the post read, to write in a manner that can be read without difficulty.

Personally, I can't say that I've seen any correlation between comments about writing abilities and content.

Mike

[W0LC]

Quote[/b] (KI4NNL @ Dec. 21 2006,05:04)]Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 21 2006,04:57)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 21 2006,04:46)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.
Yep.

I can read music.

That doesn't mean that I can identify the notes in music that I hear, nor does it mean that I can play any instrument.

Yes, with practice I might be able to learn to play some instrument from reading sheet music, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever be able to play such that anyone would want to listen.

And you might say that with practice that I could identify the notes heard. Tell that to a tone deaf person! Some people just can't.

Mike
Nice reply. #I am lucky in that I can 'hear' cw, and am working on learning it with not too many hitches. #Music on the other hand, I am totally tone deaf, there is no way I can identify a note to save my life. #I was in music classes for 2 years trying, and the music teacher finally pulled me aside and told me that I am one of the few who simply can't connect the sound to the note. #I can enjoy music, but there is no way I can tell if I am playing it correctly, so that was something I had to give up trying to master. #I am sure that some people think I simply didn't try, but when you have the ability to do something, it is very hard to imagine that someone may not have that same ability.

To me the code test would be like testing my ability to transcribe music as a prerequisite for owning a stereo, it just makes no sense.
I can't speak for others, but being partially deaf and weak vision, some things are difficult for me. However, with effort and determination, I did manage to pass my (then) 20 wpm test. Seems like what it took was listening and learning speeds a little faster than that and then testing at the 20 WPM level. Seen lots of folks with more disabilities then mine get through it easier. Put me to shame. It is more an issue of will then ability.

Frustrating thing for me is radio audio levels. Have to run an EQ to compensate for the hearing loss. Helps but I constantly wonder wny more radio manufacturers in general won't add similar features to their radios beyond what is already there. Sure would help us "hard of hearing" folks...

[ab9lz]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,19:16)]Jeff-

Just because it's not going to be a requirement, don't give up on it. #Try to find someone else at about the same skill level, and practice on the air. #It can be a fun mode. #For what it's worth, I've never taken the time to look anyone up to see what their license class is before answering a CQ in any mode. #I suspect that most don't.
I wholly agree, most don't... I'll go on to add that most folks have (had) trouble with the morse test as well. Still, for those who can see past the initial pain, CW is probably one of the funnest modes out there for the sheer seat of the pants radio experience.

73 m.

[N5PVL]

KI4FJT:

It seems to me that you are talking about amateurs who use Q-codes out of habit rather than by need.

To some extent, the Q-codes have seeped into the everyday "jargon" that goes around when hams get together. They fill a gap that was left when average hams no longer bothered to study electronics or radio theory, formerly the main source of amateur radio jargon.

So we are seeing operational jargon from a group who are now mainly appliance operators. We do not see as much technical jargon because hams today are no longer introduced to radio science, much less pick up enough of it to be able to use the associated jargon.

Long ago, amateur radio started off as a fraternity of amateur scientists whose common interest was radio.

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] (af2cw @ Dec. 21 2006,05:59)]While the use of Q signals can be justified depending on the conversation. I have heard numerous times people saying "QSL?", "yeah QSL QSL, I copy you". What's that all about? Can't people ask a simple question and then turn it over to the other party. Then reply, yes, I understand, or OK I got it, or just simply answer the bloody question. Even on repeaters, back when I used them, the same routine, using QSL like people had to show they knew what it meant. #

Even using QSO, on phone. How about, thanks for the chat OM, or thanks for the contact? Heck even some CW ops don't always say, tnx fer QSO. Sometimes it's, fb es tnx for the chat, or gud chatting with u es hpe cu agn. So please, limit the use of Q signals to where they are truly needed, not tossed around haphazardly to make folks think you are all that and then some.
Sometimes I say thanks for the chat, others thanks for the contact, and others thanks for the QSO.

I can assure you that I don't all of a sudden use QSO "to make folks think you are all that and then some."

I use it because it has been a part of our lexicon for a long time, long before we became applicance operators, and because sometimes on phone I feel like being stingy with my syllables: lot easier to mention QRM than it is to say "Experiencing interference from another station."

Loosen your knickers! If you don't want to use Q codes, then don't!

Mike

[af2cw]

Mike, I did not mean to imply YOU do it to make others think you are all that and then some. So go get a cup-o-joe and move along smartly. I also stated, if you read carefully, that the use of some Q signals are quite useful, and accepted. It is the tossing around haphazardly these Q signals that are not required.

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] ]Even using QSO, on phone. How about, thanks for the chat OM, or thanks for the contact? Heck even some CW ops don't always say, tnx fer QSO. Sometimes it's, fb es tnx for the chat, or gud chatting with u es hpe cu agn. So please, limit the use of Q signals to where they are truly needed, not tossed around haphazardly to make folks think you are all that and then some.

I did read it carefully. And now I'm going for my coffee. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Mike

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KC9JIQ @ Dec. 20 2006,20:20)]Quote[/b] ]Don't worry. Eventually all the "coders" will die off and you can be the angry ham complaining about how extra licenses are now being given out in cereal boxes

AHAHAHAHAHA! But it won't be for another 40 or so years before the CW'ers die off. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
A lot longer than that. I'm working on giving CW courses with the license course at a local college here. I imagine there will be activity on the CW portion for years to come. But we will be willing to work all the newbies and their magical CW machines. Most of us anyway. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[k6jpd]

i too have stayed out of the flaming that does go on here on this forum. there has been a lot of "shooting the piano player" activities on here. some of you need to direct your feelings toward the agency that made the ruling ,vice, based solely on class, the individual amateurs.... heck, even most of the "extra-lite" bashing has died down.
by the way, if you want to make a point of "improper" phrases (ie: q-signals on phone ... and yes, i don't like/use them on phone either), then thats a two way street..... there is no such thing as a NCT, the correct term is TECHNICIAN.

i was gonna run this thu my spell checker, but i really don't have a lot of faith in it.

Ode to a Spell Chequer
I have a spelling chequer
It came with my PC
It plainly marks for my revue
miss takes I cannot see
I've run this poem threw it
I'm shore your pleased two no
its letter perfect in its weigh
my chequer tolled me sew.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 21 2006,05:30)]Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,22:28)]It really is your obligation to assist in an emergency as part of having a ham license.
Obligated to volunteer? Isn't that an oxymoron?

It is a perk to society for having amateur radio; those ops who are trained and volunteer their services during an emergency.

I've been told that the untrained should stay out of the way during an emergency, and since I believe that the vast majority of hams are not trained in emergency message handling, it follows that it is not an obligation of having a ticket, otherwise that training would be a part of qualifying for a license.

Kudos to you Jeff for being there, whether you could actually help or not.

Mike
I believe that it is the duty of every ham to help out if resources are needed.

We have had some major disasters in this area (9/11, blackout of '03) and no one who asked to help was turned down.

It does say in part 97 that one of the purposes of the ARS is a volunteer radiocommunication service especially with regards to emergency communications.

It's not an enforced requirement, just one of the things you're expected to do.

[K0HWY]

Much like CPR. OK, you're not a Paramedic or an EMT. Maybe you don't even have a little AHA or Red Cross card. But, you witness a cardiac arrest and call 911. The operator says, "I'm going to tell you how to do CPR." What are you going do? Tell him/her it's not required or that you're not qualified? You're the victim's only hope and until someone who is qualified arrives, I would expect that each of us would do the right thing.

Same with amateur radio. Until you are told to step back by someone who is qualified, you need to assist as best you can. It's expected behavior.

[K0RGR]

We are all now one big happy, if slightly dysfunctional family again. There are no more "NCTs', just 'Techs'. Everybody has some kind of HF priveleges.

As for the spelling and grammar, yes, sometimes it's a little disturbing, but my Honor Student is likewise challenged, as is her college brother. And, I have know some pretty darn good hams who could not spell 'CAT' if you spotted them the 'C' and the 'T' and made it a multiple guess question. I contend that my writing ability has helped my career enormously as I've had several managers who kept me around just because I was willing to proofread their abysmal stuff before it had to go upstairs.

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Dec. 21 2006,02:22)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 21 2006,05:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code? Why would you want to use CW related signals when you aren't using CW? Is it you want other operators to "THINK" you know CW? If not what are your reasons for using them?

The question about HF and EmComm has been tossed into the fray. In all the EmComm training I have had I was taught to use clear/plain voice to pass messages. Q signals are frowned upon in real emergencies UNLESS you are sending CW.

What is this facination for NCT's wanting to interject "CW-isims" every chance they get but badmouth the code? Can someone enlighten me?

LAST but not least it's 73 NOT 73's if you're going to use CW slogans..PLEASE #get them accurate.
There are 2 very good reasons for using Q codes in phone.

1) communication is on the edge of the noise making words sound the same, using nato spelling and Q codes still allow the QSO to be finished.

2) You and your QSO partner don't speak the same language, Q codes are the same in every language.

ofcourse the seccond reason might be rare for US operators in this part of the suncycle on HF and very rare on VHF and up (satalite and eme excepted).
the q signals are not necessarily pronounced the same way in every language however.

they do mean the same thing everywhere in morse code though.


even so, i see no problem with using an occasional q signal on the phone bands, it beats the cb babble by a long shot.

one thing that helps a lot is that a good portion of the hams around the world speak english a lot better than most of us u.s. hams speak their language

english is considered to be the language of technology in this day and age and as a lot of hams are in the various technical fields they had to learn english for their jobs.

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 21 2006,06:07)]Quote[/b] (KI4NNL @ Dec. 21 2006,05:04)]Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 21 2006,04:57)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 21 2006,04:46)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.
Yep.

I can read music.

That doesn't mean that I can identify the notes in music that I hear, nor does it mean that I can play any instrument.

Yes, with practice I might be able to learn to play some instrument from reading sheet music, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever be able to play such that anyone would want to listen.

And you might say that with practice that I could identify the notes heard. Tell that to a tone deaf person! Some people just can't.

Mike
Nice reply. #I am lucky in that I can 'hear' cw, and am working on learning it with not too many hitches. #Music on the other hand, I am totally tone deaf, there is no way I can identify a note to save my life. #I was in music classes for 2 years trying, and the music teacher finally pulled me aside and told me that I am one of the few who simply can't connect the sound to the note. #I can enjoy music, but there is no way I can tell if I am playing it correctly, so that was something I had to give up trying to master. #I am sure that some people think I simply didn't try, but when you have the ability to do something, it is very hard to imagine that someone may not have that same ability.

To me the code test would be like testing my ability to transcribe music as a prerequisite for owning a stereo, it just makes no sense.
I can't speak for others, but being partially deaf and weak vision, some things are difficult for me. #However, with effort and determination, I did manage to pass my (then) 20 wpm test. #Seems like what it took was listening and learning speeds a little faster than that and then testing at the 20 WPM level. #Seen lots of folks with more disabilities then mine get through it easier. #Put me to shame. #It is more an issue of will then ability.

Frustrating thing for me is radio audio levels. Have to run an EQ to compensate for the hearing loss. #Helps but I constantly wonder wny more radio manufacturers in general won't add similar features to their radios beyond what is already there. #Sure would help us "hard of hearing" folks...
why don't you just use a small external audio amp and equalizer for your speaker and earphone connections ?

hey, i just figured out a way to put a question mark on the page even though the key for it is not working on this keyboard .

[wg7x]

KI4NGN; Mike sez:

Quote[/b] ]Certainly everyone is welcome to post, but this site is based on nothing but written communications, and if a post is difficult to read, I see nothing wrong with pointing that out. Readers are not obligated to expend effort trying to read a post. It is the poster's obligation, if he or she wants the post read, to write in a manner that can be read without difficulty.

Not to change the subject, but thanks Mike.

I have been *edited* and had posts removed for pointing this out. I'm glad that the ever-present censor did not delete YOUR post!

73 Gary
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W0LC]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 21 2006,08:24)]Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 21 2006,06:07)]Quote[/b] (KI4NNL @ Dec. 21 2006,05:04)]Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 21 2006,04:57)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 21 2006,04:46)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.
Yep.

I can read music.

That doesn't mean that I can identify the notes in music that I hear, nor does it mean that I can play any instrument.

Yes, with practice I might be able to learn to play some instrument from reading sheet music, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever be able to play such that anyone would want to listen.

And you might say that with practice that I could identify the notes heard. Tell that to a tone deaf person! Some people just can't.

Mike
Nice reply. #I am lucky in that I can 'hear' cw, and am working on learning it with not too many hitches. #Music on the other hand, I am totally tone deaf, there is no way I can identify a note to save my life. #I was in music classes for 2 years trying, and the music teacher finally pulled me aside and told me that I am one of the few who simply can't connect the sound to the note. #I can enjoy music, but there is no way I can tell if I am playing it correctly, so that was something I had to give up trying to master. #I am sure that some people think I simply didn't try, but when you have the ability to do something, it is very hard to imagine that someone may not have that same ability.

To me the code test would be like testing my ability to transcribe music as a prerequisite for owning a stereo, it just makes no sense.
I can't speak for others, but being partially deaf and weak vision, some things are difficult for me. #However, with effort and determination, I did manage to pass my (then) 20 wpm test. #Seems like what it took was listening and learning speeds a little faster than that and then testing at the 20 WPM level. #Seen lots of folks with more disabilities then mine get through it easier. #Put me to shame. #It is more an issue of will then ability.

Frustrating thing for me is radio audio levels. Have to run an EQ to compensate for the hearing loss. #Helps but I constantly wonder wny more radio manufacturers in general won't add similar features to their radios beyond what is already there. #Sure would help us "hard of hearing" folks...
why don't you just use a small external audio amp and equalizer for your speaker and earphone connections ?

#hey, i just figured out a way to put a question mark on the page even though the key for it is not working on this keyboard .
I have an audio amp and an EQ and a Beringer mixer with the headphones plugged in....

Helps a lot...

But look at all that gear and how much simplier it could be implemented into software into a radio....

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 21 2006,09:06)]Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 21 2006,08:24)]Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 21 2006,06:07)]Quote[/b] (KI4NNL @ Dec. 21 2006,05:04)]Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 21 2006,04:57)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 21 2006,04:46)]Quote[/b] (KI4FJT @ Dec. 19 2006,21:54)]What I can't understand is why the NCT's can memorize all the morse code Q signals and use them every chance they get BUT can't memorize the code?
First of all, I'm not an NCT, but, the memorization required is fundamentally different. Seriously, morse is not so much about memorization as it is about letting the mind make a subconscious connection between a sound and a letter.
Yep.

I can read music.

That doesn't mean that I can identify the notes in music that I hear, nor does it mean that I can play any instrument.

Yes, with practice I might be able to learn to play some instrument from reading sheet music, but that doesn't mean that I'll ever be able to play such that anyone would want to listen.

And you might say that with practice that I could identify the notes heard. Tell that to a tone deaf person! Some people just can't.

Mike
Nice reply. #I am lucky in that I can 'hear' cw, and am working on learning it with not too many hitches. #Music on the other hand, I am totally tone deaf, there is no way I can identify a note to save my life. #I was in music classes for 2 years trying, and the music teacher finally pulled me aside and told me that I am one of the few who simply can't connect the sound to the note. #I can enjoy music, but there is no way I can tell if I am playing it correctly, so that was something I had to give up trying to master. #I am sure that some people think I simply didn't try, but when you have the ability to do something, it is very hard to imagine that someone may not have that same ability.

To me the code test would be like testing my ability to transcribe music as a prerequisite for owning a stereo, it just makes no sense.
I can't speak for others, but being partially deaf and weak vision, some things are difficult for me. #However, with effort and determination, I did manage to pass my (then) 20 wpm test. #Seems like what it took was listening and learning speeds a little faster than that and then testing at the 20 WPM level. #Seen lots of folks with more disabilities then mine get through it easier. #Put me to shame. #It is more an issue of will then ability.

Frustrating thing for me is radio audio levels. Have to run an EQ to compensate for the hearing loss. #Helps but I constantly wonder wny more radio manufacturers in general won't add similar features to their radios beyond what is already there. #Sure would help us "hard of hearing" folks...
why don't you just use a small external audio amp and equalizer for your speaker and earphone connections ?

#hey, i just figured out a way to put a question mark on the page even though the key for it is not working on this keyboard .
I have an audio amp and an EQ and a Beringer mixer with the headphones plugged in....

Helps a lot...

But look at all that gear and how much simplier it could be implemented into software into a radio....
how much would it add to the price of the equipment ? and there is the consideration that the majority would not have any use for it.

one of the problems with ham equipment today is that they have too many unnecessary bells and whistles as it is.

[W0LC]

That is so true. Most of it is "eye candy".
Features like "FM" on an HF radio to me is a bit silly.
Memories likewise. I hardly use them.

Again, it depends on the user. Everyone wants some sort of "cool" feature...

I have found the TFT displays (band scopes) a bit overkill as I don't see where they really help me "see" a DX station, when the signal is around S-2/3.

Then again, that is me.

[KC0NBW]

i am off to see the croaker.

i will be back in a few days, hopefully before christmas.

ceud mille failte and slainte mhor to all http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 21 2006,12:03)]Features like "FM" on an HF radio to me is a bit silly.
FM is used regularly on 10 meters.

Quote[/b] ]Memories likewise. I hardly use them.

On my 7000, since I've consolidated all of my mobile radio use into that radio, I use them.

Quote[/b] ]Again, it depends on the user. Everyone wants some sort of "cool" feature...

Yeah, but some are just a godsend. IF-DSP for example.

Quote[/b] ]I have found the TFT displays (band scopes) a bit overkill as I don't see where they really help me "see" a DX station, when the signal is around S-2/3.

I rarely use the band scope but it helps me find signals in a quiet band.

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,22:28)]Jeff, I'll just have you know, it goes both ways.

I'm fed up of being flamed by whiny NCT's for "oppressing" them with the code.

I have NO problems with NCT's in general, just those that complain and whine like little children. #You guys knew the code was going away, why was there a thread every week asking when and demanding that it go away?
the no code people got what they wanted

why are they still bitching

heck some of them are not just happy
with ending the code test

they want old ops dead and gone

the old ops are not nice to us
bunk
get a life, grow up,
want the old time ops to respect you

fire up the rig
if you are a good op
you will get the respect you deserve

but don't expect to get it
posting here
this is not Amateur Radio

Mac

[K0HWY]

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 21 2006,12:07)]i am off to see the croaker. #

i will be back in a few days, hopefully before christmas.

ceud mille failte and slainte mhor to all http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Good luck OM. Hope they don't keep you very long. Christmas in there would definitely suck.

[KI4NGN]

Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 21 2006,10:03)]I have found the TFT displays (band scopes) a bit overkill as I don't see where they really help me "see" a DX station, when the signal is around S-2/3.

Then again, that is me.
I love the scope on my 756ProII! It is cool for sure, but also useful to see the signals above and below your current frequency.

It's nice to see those signals that are within 12.5K up or down from my frequency. Or +/- 25K, 50K, or 100K.

If I just in the mood for listening, and the current frequency just went idle, a quick glance at the scope shows me which direction to go for another one.

If I'm looking for a clear frequency, again, just a quick glance at the scope can give me some idea of where I may find enough room.

I can get a good reading on a signal bandwidth, transmit and receive, by just looking at the scope.

Is it necessary? Of course not, but it is a convenience beyond just being something that's cool.

Once you have used a rig for a while that has one, you'll find yourself feeling that there is something missing when you just look at rigs that don't have one.

Mike

[ki4pg]

I have no problem with communicating with anyone on the bands. I use the 2 mtr bands and the HF bands. I try not to judge any operator until I have conversed with them. THERE are some on the air that seem radical in their opinions or MAYBE they are just different from mine. Any way this is a hobby for me and I thoughly enjoy it. My opinion is that if a person gets "a ticket", they are entitled to operate within the limitations of that ticket. If they do abuse their priviledges, I personally don't care how they enjoy the hobby or what mode of transmission they use. They are many people out there that are not intrested in the techical aspects of the hobby and obviously not intrested in the code, but isn't this the reason there are so many avenues of amateur radio to explore?

I tend to agree that some of the tests given seem extremely easy. I managed to pass the "old" element 1 test (Sept. '06) so that I could continue forward in the amateur hobby. I didn't want to wait for the code to be dropped. I do think that anyone who applied themselves could have learned enough code to pass the 5 wpm test. I contnue to practice the code and hope to eventually get some air time with it and although not a requirement anymore, I hope that it continues to gain the intrest of some and never fades away.

[KG6YTZ]

Just my two cents on some earlier bits of this thread...

I don't mind the occasional judicious use of Q-codes on phone, but I do have one little pet peeve there... #"QSL" DOES NOT MEAN "YES!"

"Are you on your HT right now?"
"QSL."

Uhhhh.... okay... #You received the question. #Now answer it.

Rant mode off. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KD8COO]

Roger good buddy ;)

[W0UZR]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,15:47)][B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff
My beef is the people that WONT do anything and just sit and wait for it to get handed yo them. I'm trying to figure out if I am more disgusted with them, or the FCC for giving in because they cry and whine.

But anyway, you DIDN'T just sit and wait for things to come to you. You TRIED !!







AND I'M PROUD OF YOU ANYWAY !!!

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (KI4NGN @ Dec. 20 2006,05:57)]Someone remarked about why it seems we relatively recently have all of these people who can't learn code. How do you know they haven't always been there, that there just hasn't been some medium such as the internet and this site for them to become visible? Prior to the internet, how would most HF ops have ever heard about people who just couldn't get code skills down? By definition they would not have heard from them on the air.
Of course this is true. Hams wouldn't know about the vast majority of them. Prior to the NCT there was no way for those struggling with morse to communicate with hams other than face to face. While some may have made the effort to do so, I expect that many wouldn't and quite a few simply wouldn't be able to find other hams.

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Dec. 21 2006,17:05)]Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,15:47)][B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff
My beef is the people that WONT do anything and just sit and wait for it to get handed yo them. I'm trying to figure out if I am more disgusted with them, or the FCC for giving in because they cry and whine.

But anyway, you DIDN'T just sit and wait for things to come to you. You TRIED !!







AND I'M PROUD OF YOU ANYWAY !!!
I'm waiting on you to come and give me a sammich. I TRIED to make one but I couldn't do it. So when are you coming? I'm hungry.

[k0ews]

Blow off the negative comments. I'm a CW operator, first and foremost. I love that mode and was really hoping that some form of it would still be required for an Extra ticket. That being said, I bear absolutely NO ill will toward any of my fellow amateurs, and most folks I know don't either. Sure, you probably get your share of comments from some people but really, blow it off.
I'm a music teacher. I honestly think that if you have taken the test 6 times, you probably do have a problem. We KNOW you're not lazy and not trying. There are folks who really struggle with the auditory skills.
One other thing: I've been in discussions regarding this thing both here and on the air. The comments, good or bad, at least in my neck of the woods, are nowhere near as negative on the air as on message boards like this. Spend more time on the air, and less on the Internet for a while.

[W0UZR]

Quote[/b] (wd0ct @ Dec. 21 2006,19:15)]Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Dec. 21 2006,17:05)]Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,15:47)][B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff
My beef is the people that WONT do anything and just sit and wait for it to get handed yo them. I'm trying to figure out if I am more disgusted with them, or the #FCC #for giving in because they cry and whine.

But anyway, you DIDN'T just sit and wait for things to come to #you. #You #TRIED !!



# # # # # # # # #



# # # # # # #AND I'M #PROUD #OF #YOU ANYWAY !!!
I'm waiting on you to come and give me a sammich. I TRIED to make one but I couldn't do it. So when are you coming? I'm hungry.
I KNOW what you're trying to say...

I was saying the same thing until I talked to enough people that swears up and down that they studied the code and thought they could pass the test, then goes to the testing session and can't copy anything They said they would go blank.
Just like when I took my general test in International Falls. This 10 year old kid was on his 3d try, and through out inbetween testing sessions one of the VE's was getting with him helping him learn, and the kid was doing great. He could pass 5wpm at home every time, but when it came to the day of the test, he would FREEZE UP. I thought this time he would pass for sure, but nope,,he froze up again! I sure felt sorry for the guy.....
I'm wondering if the same thing happens to some of these other people.

[W0UZR]

OH,, And I forgot to mention,,
The 10 year old kid already has his General Written passed.

[N0NCO]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ Dec. 20 2006,19:32)]
If I can't stand the spoon up in it, it isn't thick enough, and if it won't eat the finish off the spoon it isn't strong enough.

I'm with you on that one!

N0NCO's coffee & beer theory: You should not be able to see through either one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73.....

N0NCO

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 20 2006,16:58)]blah blah blah, jesus who cares.


But, those quad banders are sure interesting little radios. I'm pretty sure they were made for the japanese market.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thanks I needed that!!!

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (KI4FDX @ Dec. 20 2006,14:47)][B][I] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I,m Madd as Hell and Im not going to take the abuse anymore,,All the FCC did was say,No Code Test Needed,,NOT NO TEST needed,I am on my second 10 year licence,I tried and Failed code 6 times,I tried and
you can't take that away.I followed the LAW and did what I was required to do,I still have some test and Books to study,but when I upgrade to Extra,with some of the post I have read,does that mean you'll have some database to say,,Thats A No-Code Extra,No ! We wont talk to Him.When I volunteered for disasters,ie;hurricanes
and Tornados and some other emergencies where were all these Gens,Advs,and extras,we were short handed in Florida last year,had noone to run the 14.325 hurricane
net,out of 20 NCT,s who were not allowed to use this equipment made Florida look bad,other states had todo it
all,,sorry noone here but us NCT's,The others wont volunteer,and we are not allowed to use the equipment
even in an Emergency,per The only extra EOC cheif there
wouldnt do it,said Ive got my hands full,,FINE, WE are here ready and able,,The only part of the Band we can't
operate is the CW portion,,But that was covered,GOOD,
Here is my point,DO YOU KNOW WHO DOESN'T WANT
11MTR CBER'S ON HF,,,NCT'S!!!!!!!!!
I USE Q-CODES,ANS DO MANY OF US,All I am saying isGive us a Break,we will abide by the FCC pt.97 like we always have,and if you FUDDYDUDDIES,and you know who you are,,will just BACK-OFF and give this its due chance you Just might be REALLY SURPRISED!!!!
I Donot Want to see CW go-Away,,just the negative and
insultive attitudes,,We will be one Phone,Rtty,PSK31 etc.
Maybe Ill learn code someday,Ill get thru this learning
barrier,,Till Then I say,BRING ON THE EXAMS,Make Um
Hard and 100 Questions,I dont Care.I can read,study and
pass any exam,I even pass my General Twice over the
last 5years,but no !13wpm Farnsworth kept me out.
Now I just have to study again and save Alot of hard
earnrd MONEY!
Because I'm gonna do it right,Don't want no harmful RF Emmissions,And with all my QST's Ive saved over the years and My ARRL antenna books and such Ill have plenty of reference...
So Be Nice ,Give us a chance,and the next time a Disaster Hits we all be there...
God Bless you all,,,especially those who understand where I'm comming from and start being possitive..
There are still Laws (Pt97) and Riley Hollingsworth to
enforce them...
Thank you all for your time,Hope you understand.
P/s All Ill have to start with is my OLD Kenwood TS-660S
it is a Quad Bander 6mtr-10mtr-12mtr and 15mtr.But she works fine,just won't be able to compete with those
Full-Legal-Limit-Hams for a while...73's
Sincerely
KI4FDX-Jeff
Well, I you DID try. Good job on that. You are not, nor is you attitude of trying, the problem. I know one other ham in your situation. To you and him, my shack is always open. For what ever reason you guys have struggled I just have a beef with those who refuse to try and want it free and clear.
When you get on HF give me a call, I will gladly work you on SSB, FM, SSTV and even slow CW to help you out.
Catch you later
Arend

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Dec. 21 2006,19:01)]OH,, And I forgot to mention,,
# # # The 10 year old kid already has his General Written passed.
My nephew Rob, AJ6E became a 20 wpm Extra class licensee in 1990 at the age of 9. His first call was KD6EWT at age 8.

I taught him the code, he learned the theory on his own, with his nose in a book before we had the internet.

His code speed went from "nothing" to 20 wpm in about 3 months, because he didn't know any hams besides me and I told him it's the easiest thing in the world. So, that's all he ever heard about the code. For him, it was the easiest thing in the world since the only expert he knew told him so.

Amazing what people can do when they don't know any better.

BTW, Rob has cerebral palsy and lacks coordination. He can send about 40 wpm, anyway.

WB2WIK/6

[k5jyd]

Sorry that you were not able to pass code test but no matter now.In a couple of months you can be an extra, what do you have to angry about? I think one of the problems is competition, men love to compete with one another and ham radio is a very competative activity.Chasing dx, contesting, all very competative.The use of cw is part of that competion.Anyone can use phone and anyone can be on the dx honor roll if they are willing to spend the time and the money for the equipment .This is not true of cw.Those who have mastered the skill and art of cw often feel that in the competative world of ham radio they have arrived .

K5jyd
"the ice man cometh"

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 22 2006,19:40)]Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Dec. 21 2006,19:01)]OH,, And I forgot to mention,,
The 10 year old kid already has his General Written passed.
My nephew Rob, AJ6E became a 20 wpm Extra class licensee in 1990 at the age of 9. His first call was KD6EWT at age 8.

I taught him the code, he learned the theory on his own, with his nose in a book before we had the internet.

His code speed went from "nothing" to 20 wpm in about 3 months, because he didn't know any hams besides me and I told him it's the easiest thing in the world. So, that's all he ever heard about the code. For him, it was the easiest thing in the world since the only expert he knew told him so.

Amazing what people can do when they don't know any better.

BTW, Rob has cerebral palsy and lacks coordination. He can send about 40 wpm, anyway.

WB2WIK/6
Wow, that's neat, steve!

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 23 2006,15:04)]Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 22 2006,19:40)]Quote[/b] (w0uzr @ Dec. 21 2006,19:01)]OH,, And I forgot to mention,,
# # # The 10 year old kid already has his General Written passed.
My nephew Rob, AJ6E became a 20 wpm Extra class licensee in 1990 at the age of 9. #His first call was KD6EWT at age 8.

I taught him the code, he learned the theory on his own, with his nose in a book before we had the internet.

His code speed went from "nothing" to 20 wpm in about 3 months, because he didn't know any hams besides me and I told him it's the easiest thing in the world. #So, that's all he ever heard about the code. #For him, it was the easiest thing in the world since the only expert he knew told him so.

Amazing what people can do when they don't know any better.

BTW, Rob has cerebral palsy and lacks coordination. #He can send about 40 wpm, anyway.

WB2WIK/6
Wow, that's neat, steve!
It is neat. Rob's too busy chasing women and stuff to spend time with ham radio right now, but I'm sure he'll get back to it.

He did graduate college with a degree in Computer Science, and works at Countrywide Savings and Loan, the largest mortgage company in the country. Doing what, exactly, I have no idea... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But Rob became a hotshot CW operator very early on. I brought him to Field Day at the Conejo Valley Amateur Radio Club (near L.A.) when he was a new Extra, 11 years old. Set him up with one of my spare rigs on a card table, with a keyer and log book. It was his first FD. All I told him was, "Your job is to sit here and make contacts. All contacts have to be "new" ones, no repeats allowed. You have to send this...(exchange), and just write down the other guy's exchange. The bathroom's over there, and if you get hungry, let somebody know, we have a lot of food. Have fun." And I walked away, into the 20m CW tent, to have some fun of my own.

A few hours later I came back to see how Rob was doing on 15CW. He had logged 211 contacts in maybe 3-1/2 hours. All I could say was, "Are you thirsty or hungry, or need a break?"

"Nope, I'm having fun, like you said."

That was the year our FD station broke all Field Day records, achieving a score of over 30,000 points, in 1994. This record has never been broken since. Our FD callsign was K6CAB, and I was FD chairman, but more importantly, Rob was one of my operators.

When we went to leave after shutdown and packup, almost all the other operators came over to say..."Can you bring Rob again, next year?" He was a smash hit.

This is a kid who cannot write or print anything even close to 20 wpm, so he had to learn code by copying in his head, exclusively. He went on to operate a few major contests with local DX clubs and was a smash hit there, too.

No reason to write down code. I never did, and Rob never did. The natural way is to kick back and enjoy it.

WB2WIK/6 going back to 40CW, now.

[W0LC]

Hi Steve

According to the NCI-ers on here, Rob would be considered a freak and an elitest...hi.

I have met some "kids" like that, that can pick it up with hardly any effort...I had to work at it myself, the old Ameco code records and code practice oscillators..hi.

It is unique that some pick it up so well with hardly any effort and the majority like myself had to work at it. Truly a gifted individual.

CU on the bands...

...-.-

Chris

[kf7qq]

take a chill pill!

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (W0LC @ Dec. 23 2006,20:25)]Hi Steve

According to the NCI-ers on here, Rob would be considered a freak and an elitest...hi.

I have met some "kids" like that, that can pick it up with hardly any effort...I had to work at it myself, the old Ameco code records and code practice oscillators..hi.

It is unique that some pick it up so well with hardly any effort and the majority like myself had to work at it. #Truly a gifted individual.

CU on the bands...

...-.-

Chris
Chris, believe me, nothing "gifted" going on there.

The reasons most have to work hard to learn code are really simple:

1. Almost everyone heard it was difficult, and they'd have a long row to hoe.

2. Most have tried to learn it alone, studying or practicing by himself/herself. Doesn't matter what "aids" were used, if you're the only one in the room, you're doing it alone.

Two strikes and you're almost out!

73 es CU on CW,

Steve WB2WIK/6

[ka0gkt]

Hmmm...I've worked plenty of No-Code hams...It's the bent-out-of-shape, nasty attitude, whiners which I refuse to work.

73 DE KAØGKT/7

--Steve

[N5PVL]

AF2CW says:
Quote[/b] ]
Mike, I did not mean to imply YOU do it to make others think you are all that and then some. So go get a cup-o-joe and move along smartly. I also stated, if you read carefully, that the use of some Q signals are quite useful, and accepted. It is the tossing around haphazardly these Q signals that are not required.

I see that I am not the only one who has noted KI4NGN's problem with basic reading comprehension.

Everybody wants Mike to "read carefully" or "read again" after he has made a sarcastic response to something that he made up for himself after failing to follow a few simple sentences of text.

I wonder how long that act is going to go over, here at QRZ?

[KC0NBW]

i am back, i got sprung in time for christmas. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif