FCC Report and Order Posted on New Rules [Archive] - Page 2

AE6QE

12-21-2006, 07:41 AM

I am admittedly glad to see the code dropped. I am one of those 2% of hams 35 and under, and I am very involved in both computer and voice communications by hobby and by profession. My experiences, one of which was a life changing experience on a communications team down in Mississippi after Katrina, leads me to believe that the code, for good or bad, has been a speed bump in really wonderful folks becoming licensed.

<rant on>
Some of you may not know this, but there is another world to the communications hobbyist other than the amateur radio operator and the CB'er. These are the guys in the Part 15 world. These folks experiment more it seems than hams do! These are people shooting 802.11 communications up to 100+ miles using legal Part 15 devices! Talk about QRP! These are also the folks that came down to shelters with their deployable SATCOM gear, and offered Ethernet and 802.11 services at food distribution points.

There are some in the EMCOMM world shaking in their boots, and justifiably so. Why does an agency want a ham with voice and slow data (many call 128 kbps fast in our hobby!), when they can have upwards to a 2 Mbps link, with e-mail, internet, and Voice over IP?

I honestly think that some of us are so wrapped up in well-established modes (and pseudo religions) like Morse code and SSB, that we have been left behind...and maybe for good! The most technological thing it seems we've done in the last 40 years is launch satellites (most of them not able to cross communicate with other satellites) and follow industry kicking and screaming into digital voice (D-STAR, P25 etc.)

So, what keeps these modern experimenters, who are advancing the art and science of radio and networking (rapidly becoming one and the same), for using their skills to lift our hobby from depression? The code! It's not a question of whether they are smart enough, it's a question of relevance. To these folks, our thinking is all wrong - we grant access to the less exciting bands using mostly outdated technology to higher license classes, and give the good stuff to the Techs, with a lot of scorn on the side.

And, that for those that have investigated getting a license. Others just stop when they heard that they have to know code. They are not interested in the equivilant of 800 bps (ASCII of text, average 5 letters/word, at 20 wpm), they are interested in 54 MBPS and beyond.

So, in my humble opinion, I would do what I could to welcome these Part 15 types to the world of amateur radio! Advancing the art of radio is not about homebrewing a CW rig, and using Morse code anymore. Nor is it griping that the FCC finally dropped a mode that most services stopped years ago! Get over it, design a constellation of interworking satellites or make an EMCOMM WLAN backbone...or something! I'll be happy to share my part 15 or part 97 experience with anyone!
<rant off>

Honestly, there's room in our hobby for so many types. The problem is, if we keep up this bickering, we will fuel the growth of an ulcer that will kill - yes, kill - ham radio.

I leave you a couple of quotes to sum things up.

Jean Luc Picard (as Locutus) - "Your life, as it has been, is over."

Rodney King - "Can't we just get along?"

73 to all, and all a good night.
Rickey/AE6QE

wa4gch

12-21-2006, 09:34 AM

When I'm not on 6 meters look for me on 28.360 USB .

I DO NOT understand this CRAP about treating anyone who follows the rules with any disrespect. Thoes who preach this need to THINK about what they sounded like back the first days they were on the air.

I can remember being a teenager with WW2 surpluss radios tring to make them work on 2 and 6 meters. I sounded like CRAP but the old timers talked me through things and we got things to work ...

All you new no-codes give me a call in 40+ years I have never refused to talk to ANYONE.

I will answer you and I QSL 100 %

Bruce WA4GCH

on 6 since 66

http://www.qrz.com/wa4gch

n1dvj

12-21-2006, 12:36 PM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 20 2006,17:49)]Quote[/b] ]Because if he was a "Plus" it would be listed.

That is not true. #My daughter is a Tech Plus and she is listed as a Technician. #She passed her Element 1 test a bit over a year ago and has the CSCE to prove it. #When she passed she was told that she must have it with her when she uses her addition privileges because they would not be noted on the FCC website.
I forget the date it went into effect, but the FCC stopped making a distinction between Tech and Tech+ in the database. It was just for new entries after that date. However, if you had a Tech+ from before that date, it appeared that it STAYED as Tech+.

I'm not sure about the current database, but at least fr some time if you saw someone with a Tech+ you knew they passed the code. If you saw someone with just Tech you could never be sure without checking other data.

w0vu

12-21-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 19 2006,19:16)]Look all you guys that are bitching and moaning about the code test going bye bye need to get a grip on reality. IT IS GONE AND WILL NOT COME BACK. Deal with it and move on. This is my final say on the subject because you can't pound anything into some of the rocks in this forum. I am going back to my radio where more civilized people are at because some of you old timers are just too stubborn to accept change. I have accepted it so why can't you. The FCC has spoke and now we have to deal with it. You don't like it then just leave the radio hobby for the rest of us. You guys are acting like a bunch of kids playing ball and no one wants to share the ball because it is his. Grow up and welcome all the new hams into the hobby. Teach them the right way to operate their radios on the air. You keep saying stuff like it will be just like CB, well it will be. We make this hobby what it is. I am willing to bet that none of the guys bitching and moaning on here about the code testing getting canned have even commented on the R&O when the comment window was open. In fact I think I will go look up some of the calls on here that are bitching and moaning just to see if you guys even voiced your opinion or not. This is not the place to do it because guess what? Nothing will change by saying it here on QRZ. NOTHING. It will still be the same. If you want to talk to me I will be on HF SSB, PSK31, or packet but you will never see me on CW. I hate the mode and won't use it. [end of rant]

To all you folks that are welcoming the new hams with open arms I commend you. You guys seem to accept change for the good instead of complaining everytime something does not go your way. You guys are better persons and hams because of that and I would be glad to have a conversation with you any day on HF.
I have accepted it so why can't you.[QUOTE]

I can't imagine why??? Let it rest, its over with just get on the air when the time comes and I will be more than happy to work you and anyone else with a HF licence.

Happy Holidays to all
Bob w0vu OF

w5klb

12-21-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 20 2006,11:18)]Gary you are not an "Extra lite" You are an Extra class operator period. Now that you put the lite in your class you will probably get all kind of grief from folks that say you are not a real Extra. In the light of the FCC you are an Extra class operator just like I am a General class operator even though I only have 5 wpm. Don't put yourself down. You earned your license the correct way.

Merry Christmas and hope to hear you on the Air soon.
I wasn't putting myself "down", its just that I understand that their are MANY that had to take a much tougher test than I did. But if even if I had to take the code test at 13 WPM to get General, and again at 20 to get Extra, I would have done it gladly no matter how long it took, or how many times I had to take the test.

Merry Christmas.

WA3KYY

12-21-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,19:12)]Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Dec. 20 2006,15:49)]Quote[/b] (kd4nx @ Dec. 20 2006,14:41)]One more step to a commercial take over! #When the bands become useless - the next rule making will hand them over to commercial broadcasting - Thank You Dubwa - next stop USER FEES!
The FCC cannot allocate the amateur HF bands without a change in the International Radio Regulations by majority vote of the ITU member nations at #World Administrative Radio Conference. #The VHF and UHF and up allocations are another story.
Wrong. #They can do whatever they want.
Not if they want to survive a court challenge. Treaty obligations have the force of US Law. Laws always trump regulations.

They can disband the amateur service and rescind all licenses but they cannot allocate frequencies that are designated by the ITU as amateur exclusive to another service without being in violation of the Treaty.

Nothing in the International Radio Regulations forces a country to issue amateur service licenses (P5 being a good example), but a country who is a signatory to the ITU treaty cannot assign frequencies to services other than as provided in the IRR.

n5ark

12-21-2006, 01:55 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote (N2MMM @ Dec. 20 2006,17:40)
Quote (kc7gnm @ Dec. 20 2006,13:04)
Quote (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,15:03)
Quote (kc2ocm @ Dec. 20 2006,13:39)
Don't feel like the code is not nessesary? FINE !...... Obviously your barking up the wrong hobby. You have other
Alternatives in radio operations such as GMRS and FRS.
All that is required is a CRACKER JACK
TICKET!.......

Stirring up the pot are we?

Callsign: KC2OCM Class: Technician

LOL and I bet he will be the first in line to get his Extra without code.

How do you know he is not a Technician "Plus"
[QUOTE]

He is a Tech Plus after looking up his license

WA3KYY

12-21-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote[/b] (ae6jc @ Dec. 20 2006,23:20)]AB2MH said in part:

------

The ARRL has wanted this for a long time. #After all, in theory it would help boost membership, and they're pushing amateur radio to kids a lot now. Nothing is wrong with getting kids interested, but to me it seems as though the ARRL is concentrating way too much on getting kids into the hobby.

------

The ARRL is indeed concentrating on getting kids into the hobby, and with an excellent reason for so doing. #They are the future. #If you doubt this, consider the following.

I remember running across a URL on the ARRL website three or four months ago which stated that the number of members in the amateur radio service aged 35 and younger was about 2% of the total pool of the members of the amatrue radio service.

If the kids don't enter our hobby, the hobby dies. #This is an inconvenient truth, but it is nonetheless true.

Food for thought.

Wishing you and yours the very best, I remain...

Rodger
Well I don't think this is drastically different than it was 40 or more years ago. When I got my novice license in 1965 at the age of 12, I was the only one in my school to have one. I never even met another ham my age until I got to college and joined the amateur radio club there. When I went on Field Day with the local group I was the only teenager present. The group of us that chatted almost daily on 6M in the late 60s and early 70s had only two of the 20 or so regulars who were under 30.

I suspect that just as back then, more new licensees come from the over 30 crowd than the under 20 crowd but I have seen an increase in younger folks at our clubs license classes over the last 5 or so years and most of them wanted to learn CW!

73,
Mike WA3KYY

WA3KYY

12-21-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote[/b] (kg4gtq @ Dec. 21 2006,00:40)]We will now begin testing for knowledge of slow scan tv. It will keep the undesirables out.
That's already on the test, hasn't worked.

WA3KYY

12-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote[/b] (n5rdn @ Dec. 21 2006,02:29)]Quote[/b] (KE7HLR @ Dec. 20 2006,12:44)]Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Dec. 20 2006,01:49)]Quote[/b] (kd5vjn @ Dec. 19 2006,21:58)]OK i would like someone to cut through the jibberish. what are the new bands if any that techs recieve
3.525-3.600 CW only 200W only
7.025-7.100 CW only 200W only
21.025-21.200 CW only 200W only
28.0-28.3 #CW/data/RTTY 200W only
28.3-28.5 CW/SSB 200W only
Er, I think you meant "200W, maximum," not "200W only."

73 de Dan, KE7HLR
Just wanted to correct one part, the Techs 40 mtr cw only sub-band is from 7025-7125, not 7025-7100.
73, Rob
Cool, they'll be able to work europeans cross-mode http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

WA3KYY

12-21-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote[/b] (n1dvj @ Dec. 21 2006,07:36)]Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 20 2006,17:49)]Quote[/b] ]Because if he was a "Plus" it would be listed.

That is not true. #My daughter is a Tech Plus and she is listed as a Technician. #She passed her Element 1 test a bit over a year ago and has the CSCE to prove it. #When she passed she was told that she must have it with her when she uses her addition privileges because they would not be noted on the FCC website.
I forget the date it went into effect, but the FCC stopped making a distinction between Tech and Tech+ in the database. #It was just for new entries after that date. #However, if you had a Tech+ from before that date, it appeared that it STAYED as Tech+. #

I'm not sure about the current database, but at least fr some time if you saw someone with a Tech+ you knew they passed the code. #If #you saw someone with just Tech you could never be sure without checking other data.
It stayed Tech Plus until you renewed. After that it was just listed as Tech.

K8MHZ

12-21-2006, 02:49 PM

Just over a year ago I was a NCT. #I had been for over 10 years.

Now I am an Extra and passed Element 1 to get there.

Was I a dumb ass for 10 years?

Funneh, no one had the fortitude to call me one. #Especially to my face.

NCT's are NOT dumb asses. #Oh, and that is for the folks that have never seen it spelled correctly.

K8MHZ

12-21-2006, 02:52 PM

And another thing,

The FCC made their decision based upon the responses they got, in writing, from the amateur community.

If the letters they got were like the posts we see here, I can see why they dropped the code like a hot potato.

K8MHZ

12-21-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Dec. 21 2006,02:19)]Quote[/b] (n5rdn @ Dec. 21 2006,02:29)]Quote[/b] (KE7HLR @ Dec. 20 2006,12:44)]Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Dec. 20 2006,01:49)]Quote[/b] (kd5vjn @ Dec. 19 2006,21:58)]OK i would like someone to cut through the jibberish. what are the new bands if any that techs recieve
3.525-3.600 CW only 200W only
7.025-7.100 CW only 200W only
21.025-21.200 CW only 200W only
28.0-28.3 #CW/data/RTTY 200W only
28.3-28.5 CW/SSB 200W only
Er, I think you meant "200W, maximum," not "200W only."

73 de Dan, KE7HLR
Just wanted to correct one part, the Techs 40 mtr cw only sub-band is from 7025-7125, not 7025-7100.
73, Rob
Cool, they'll be able to work europeans cross-mode #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
According to CFR47 Part 97.301 (e), Techs with code get 7.100 to 7.150 in ITU Region 2. #(That's US)

The other HF freqs are:

3.675 - 3.725
21.10 - 21.20
28.1 - 28.5

Note: #28.0 - 28.1 is an EXTRA CLASS ONLY band segment.

The power limit is listed in another section, but the 200W limit applies to all license classes in most of the band portions listed above.

I got my info directly out of the Part 97 book, updated January 2005.

KC7YM

12-21-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ Dec. 20 2006,11:11)]Quote[/b] (w8esp @ Dec. 20 2006,09:30)]I,m an old F I guess. Took the class B in 1939 at the FCC. The idea was to promote electronics interest to young persons. It took math, ohms law ac knowledge and so on. How many of todays hams can tell you inductive or cap. reactence? It has turned into strickly an operators test. The FCC will soon see no reason for the ham bands next. They many be right!
I've only been licensed for over 3 years now, and I'm now a "Extra Lite". I didn't wait for this no-code change to to get upgraded. And yes, I went to Navy Basic Electricy and Electronics School (BE&E) and learned about XsubL and XsubC way back in '79-'80. This is very basic stuff to me.

I would like to possess just one tenth of the knowledge you have concerning radio communication. I'll bet that you've probably forgotten more about this hobby then this young(?) "whipper-snapper" will ever know. I also bet that you could show all of us a thing or two about good operating skills. We need people like you now, more than ever, to set good examples for the rest of us "newbies".

Merry Christmas, OM.
Now, their's a newbie with a head on his shoulders. I'm glad to welcome him aboard and more like him. I'll still use cw most and would enjoy helping those who want to learn it.

73, Dale

K4JF

12-21-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 20 2006,08:52)]And another thing,

The FCC made their decision based upon the responses they got, in writing, from the amateur community.
Actually, no, they didn't. They went with what they wanted, not what the ham community said in the responses that they wanted.

K4JF

12-21-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 20 2006,09:08)]According to CFR47 Part 97.301 (e), Techs with code get 7.100 to 7.150 in ITU Region 2. #(That's US)

The other HF freqs are:

3.675 - 3.725
21.10 - 21.20
28.1 - 28.5

Note: #28.0 - 28.1 is an EXTRA CLASS ONLY band segment.

The power limit is listed in another section, but the 200W limit applies to all license classes in most of the band portions listed above.

I got my info directly out of the Part 97 book, updated January 2005.
As of 15 December 2006, the 200 watt limit applies ONLY to Novice and Technician licensees. The limit was removed for higher class license holders. January 2005 data are out-of-date.

K4JF

12-21-2006, 03:28 PM

Oops.. deleting a double post that didn't show up the first time...... :o(

K7JEM

12-21-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 21 2006,08:08)]Note: 28.0 - 28.1 is an EXTRA CLASS ONLY band segment.
Whoa, dude.

When did they take that away from novices, technicians, generals and advanced?

Joe

W0GE

12-21-2006, 03:52 PM

This is a record 10,000 post and still on the subject dit da dit da dit da

K8MHZ

12-21-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 21 2006,03:32)]Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 21 2006,08:08)]Note: #28.0 - 28.1 is an EXTRA CLASS ONLY band segment.
Whoa, dude.

When did they take that away from novices, technicians, generals and advanced?

Joe
Oops...

You are correct,

My mistake.

(I don't know what I was looking at....)

K4JF

12-21-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 20 2006,09:32)]Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 21 2006,08:08)]Note: #28.0 - 28.1 is an EXTRA CLASS ONLY band segment.
Whoa, dude.

When did they take that away from novices, technicians, generals and advanced?

Joe
They didn't (that I know of). My chart shows no "Extra only" segments above 15 meters.

wa4gch

12-21-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote[/b] (K1VSK @ Dec. 19 2006,18:25)]Any intelligent living people out there?
Do you people even bother to read what has been said multiple time before.?
I'm here ...... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

OOPS you wanted intelligent people ......

AF3Y

12-21-2006, 04:21 PM

A TECH RECENTLY SAID: "You sir are a manipulative control freak with a minor in just being a bad neighbor. #May the BPL marketeers setup a big grey box on the powerpole outside your qth. #Merry Christmas you crab"

Now, it Seems to me that the Tech posts are getting quite "cocky" now.. #Kinda like something that happened some years ago when new priv... No, I guess I better not say that.....

KI4NNL

12-21-2006, 04:24 PM

To be fair, people on both sides, as usual are being nasty and childish. Niether side can claim high ground here, its pretty pathetic really.

WA3KYY

12-21-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Dec. 21 2006,10:24)]Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 20 2006,09:08)]According to CFR47 Part 97.301 (e), Techs with code get 7.100 to 7.150 in ITU Region 2. #(That's US)

The other HF freqs are:

3.675 - 3.725
21.10 - 21.20
28.1 - 28.5

Note: #28.0 - 28.1 is an EXTRA CLASS ONLY band segment.

The power limit is listed in another section, but the 200W limit applies to all license classes in most of the band portions listed above.

I got my info directly out of the Part 97 book, updated January 2005.
As of 15 December 2006, the 200 watt limit applies ONLY to Novice and Technician licensees. #The limit was removed for higher class license holders. #January 2005 data are out-of-date.
Also as of Dec 15th the band segments changed. 3.6-3.7 is Extra only phone/image.

I already posted the novice/tech+ segments effective Dec 15th. This new R&O makes Tech/Tech+ equivalent in terms of privleges.

K8MHZ

12-21-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote[/b] ]To be fair, people on both sides, as usual are being nasty and childish. #Niether side can claim high ground here, its pretty pathetic really.

I *never* hear anything like I read on QRZ on our local 2 meter repeater.

The repeaters, we have many, are used by many Techs. #I would hazard to say that they are the majority users. #Most are NCTs, many have been for years. #They are cordial, polite, informative, helpful and courteous. #The calibre of their operation is many cuts above that which I hear on HF bands that required a code test to operate on.

If there is an exodus of NCT's from Michigan coming on to the HF bands we will be very lucky indeed. #They take pride in the hobby and value the many friends they have made with it.

Give them a chance. #What have you got to lose?

kc7gnm

12-21-2006, 05:12 PM

Ok I did a little investigating on the hams here that were so against the dropping of the code test that I went to the R&O to see if they had actually put their 2 cents in. What I found didn't really shock me as I figured the ones talking the loudest about the dumbing down of ham radio would not even put their voice on the R&O. Of the 11 hams on this thread that are so against the dropping of the code only 1 put a comment to the FCC about it. 1 out of 11. Here is what my research found out by callsign.

KM5YK did not comment
KC2GIF did not comment
W5GNB did not comment
W5PJW did not comment
KY1V did not comment
N3UO did not comment
KC2OCM did not comment
KD4NX did not comment
W9WHE did not comment
K4JF did comment and was the only one to do so
AB2MH did not comment.

Now no way to tell which way K4JF commented but I give him credit as the only one that did take the time to comment about the R&O. I personnally did not comment because I could care less either way.

The bottom line is if you did not even take the time to comment then why complain about the ruling after the fact? The only person that has a real right to complain would be James, K4JF. There were 3662 commentors on the R&O so I guess for the rest of us this was a non issue. Apparently a majority of those 3662 believed the code should be dropped. I guess it is the same as voting. If you don't vote then you can't complain about the elected leaders. All I have to say about this issue but wanted to bring that fact up about the hams on this forum that keep badmouthing the FCC's decision to drop morse code testing.

k8uv

12-21-2006, 05:50 PM

Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?

And yes I did comment to the FCC.

wa4gch

12-21-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)]Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?
But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

kc7gnm

12-21-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,13:50)]Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?

And yes I did comment to the FCC.
Well Rich I don't see your name listed as a commentor on the R&O.

k8uv

12-21-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)
Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?

But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #

I took the extra class test at the Mapple Valley Wireless Club in the State of Washington in 1990. #Written and code. #To signify the accomplishment, the MVWC presented everyone who passed the 20wpm #and written part a very beautiful certificate saying "For passing the highest level of ham radio exam's you are now a life time member in the Maple Valley Wireless Club. #It was a nice touch.
I very much enjoy 30 meter and 40 meter CW almost every evening in the winter. #I wll listen for 10 meter openings and bring the mic out. #When I contact hams on 10, I almost always get a QSL from them which I am glad to acknowledge with one of mine. #I also enjoy working new hams on CW, we have all been there at one time or another, struggling alone. #Without practice no one can improve and I am glad to help out.

wa4gch

12-21-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,11:05)]Quote (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)
Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?

But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #

I took the extra class test at the Mapple Valley Wireless Club in the State of Washington in 1990. #Written and code. #To signify the accomplishment, the MVWC presented everyone who passed the 20wpm #and written part a very beautiful certificate saying "For passing the highest level of ham radio exam's you are now a life time member in the Maple Valley Wireless Club. #It was a nice touch.
I very much enjoy 30 meter and 40 meter CW almost every evening in the winter. #I wll listen for 10 meter openings and bring the mic out. #When I contact hams on 10, I almost always get a QSL from them which I am glad to acknowledge with one of mine. #I also enjoy working new hams on CW, we have all been there at one time or another, struggling alone. #Without practice no one can improve and I am glad to help out.
cool good to hear someone will work with these new guys ...... see you on 10 meters ......

Bruce
Member....
OOTC, QCWA, ARRL ( LIFE )
SMIRK # 70 ...... and ......
on 6 since 66

kc7gnm

12-21-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 21 2006,14:29)]Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,11:05)]Quote (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)
Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?

But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #

I took the extra class test at the Mapple Valley Wireless Club in the State of Washington in 1990. #Written and code. #To signify the accomplishment, the MVWC presented everyone who passed the 20wpm #and written part a very beautiful certificate saying "For passing the highest level of ham radio exam's you are now a life time member in the Maple Valley Wireless Club. #It was a nice touch.
I very much enjoy 30 meter and 40 meter CW almost every evening in the winter. #I wll listen for 10 meter openings and bring the mic out. #When I contact hams on 10, I almost always get a QSL from them which I am glad to acknowledge with one of mine. #I also enjoy working new hams on CW, we have all been there at one time or another, struggling alone. #Without practice no one can improve and I am glad to help out.
cool good to hear someone will work with these new guys ...... see you on 10 meters ......

Bruce
Member....
OOTC, QCWA, ARRL ( LIFE )
SMIRK # 70 ...... and ......
on 6 since 66
I totally agree. We need to work with these guys and help them along. So what if they came from CB or not. Most all hams had some experience with CB. Mentoring these guys is what we do best. Belittling them will only make them angry and probably operate angry too.

kb9lor

12-21-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote[/b] (W5GNB @ Dec. 20 2006,07:59)]Now that the CODE is officially history, it is time to create yet another contest.

How about the "CB JAMBOREE CONTEST"?? #I am sure the ARRL would be happy to be the Proud sponsor.

The exchange could be "Hey Good Buddy, Your TEN-EIGHT and TREE TOP TALL"

Let's also not forget extra points for the Loudest Power Mic, Noise toys, and the Most DIRTY amplifier!

It would be most appropiate to replace the Straight Key Night contest!!
Nevermind, not even worth replying to.

n0zoa

12-21-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote[/b] (n3tlg @ Dec. 20 2006,22:55)]http://www.vanityhq.com
When you type in a call sign here it shows up exactly what you are.It says tech+ or Tech.I cant get on the uls tonight but i will check in the morning.As for what i found out already he is not a TECH+ or higher just a no code dummy just like me...:cool:
excuse me i beg to differ but this site does not say if they are tech or tech plus. if i am wrong please explain because i just looked up a tech pus and it only says tech

K4JF

12-21-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 20 2006,11:12)]Ok I did a little investigating on the hams here that were so against the dropping of the code test that I went to the R&O to see if they had actually put their 2 cents in. What I found didn't really shock me as I figured the ones talking the loudest about the dumbing down of ham radio would not even put their voice on the R&O. Of the 11 hams on this thread that are so against the dropping of the code only 1 put a comment to the FCC about it. 1 out of 11. Here is what my research found out by callsign.

KM5YK did not comment
KC2GIF did not comment
W5GNB did not comment
W5PJW did not comment
KY1V did not comment
N3UO did not comment
KC2OCM did not comment
KD4NX did not comment
W9WHE did not comment
K4JF did comment and was the only one to do so
AB2MH did not comment.

Now no way to tell which way K4JF commented but I give him credit as the only one that did take the time to comment about the R&O. I personnally did not comment because I could care less either way.

The bottom line is if you did not even take the time to comment then why complain about the ruling after the fact? The only person that has a real right to complain would be James, K4JF. There were 3662 commentors on the R&O so I guess for the rest of us this was a non issue. Apparently a majority of those 3662 believed the code should be dropped. I guess it is the same as voting. If you don't vote then you can't complain about the elected leaders. All I have to say about this issue but wanted to bring that fact up about the hams on this forum that keep badmouthing the FCC's decision to drop morse code testing.
Just for the record, Greg, my comment (which was public and repeated on here) was that I favored removing the code test for General, but keeping it for Extra.

And I don't believe you will find any posts of mine complaining about "dumbing down" the requirements. #I have defended multiple choice questions several times. I have also advocated that we get a new Novice license (without code), and have strongly supported the idea of Elmering, even advocating that it be required before one can apply for Extra.

Just for the record.

VY 73, # Jim #K4JF

WB6DGN

12-21-2006, 09:43 PM

Washington D.C.-

It was announced today that Kellogg's and the Federal Communications

Commission have signed a pact to issue Amateur Radio Licenses on specially marked boxes of Corn Flakes.

In this unprecedented move the FCC believes this will not hurt amateur radio but allow all individuals to receive an amateur radio license without having to demonstrate any skills with the exception of being able to use a pair of scissors to cut out their operating permit from the breakfast cereal box.

Kellogg's spokesperson commented that they were proud to have been selected by the government to be the issuer of licenses for amateur radio in the US and hope to soon make an agreement with other cereal loving countries. They also

expect that they will be issuing certificates of achievement for DXCF for confirmed contacts with100 corn flakers.

WB6DGN

12-21-2006, 09:43 PM

N2RJ

12-21-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 21 2006,12:12)]AB2MH did not comment.
More or less true. I got married in 2005 and prior to that I took a small break from the hobby to deal with my personal life and school.

For the most part I wasn't aware of what was going on in the ham world between 2002-2005. Had I known that morse requirements' removal was being vehemently persued, I would have said something.

But please forgive me for having a life outside of ham radio.

N2MMM

12-21-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 21 2006,10:12)]Ok I did a little investigating on the hams here that were so against the dropping of the code test that I went to the R&O to see if they had actually put their 2 cents in. What I found didn't really shock me as I figured the ones talking the loudest about the dumbing down of ham radio would not even put their voice on the R&O. Of the 11 hams on this thread that are so against the dropping of the code only 1 put a comment to the FCC about it. 1 out of 11. Here is what my research found out by callsign.

KM5YK did not comment
KC2GIF did not comment
W5GNB did not comment
W5PJW did not comment
KY1V did not comment
N3UO did not comment
KC2OCM did not comment
KD4NX did not comment
W9WHE did not comment
K4JF did comment and was the only one to do so
AB2MH did not comment.

Now no way to tell which way K4JF commented but I give him credit as the only one that did take the time to comment about the R&O. I personnally did not comment because I could care less either way.

The bottom line is if you did not even take the time to comment then why complain about the ruling after the fact? The only person that has a real right to complain would be James, K4JF. There were 3662 commentors on the R&O so I guess for the rest of us this was a non issue. Apparently a majority of those 3662 believed the code should be dropped. I guess it is the same as voting. If you don't vote then you can't complain about the elected leaders. All I have to say about this issue but wanted to bring that fact up about the hams on this forum that keep badmouthing the FCC's decision to drop morse code testing.
The ECFS is searchable.
Here is K4JF's comment on 05-235:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d135/Estop/K4JF.jpg

w4rlr

12-21-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,13:03)]Quote[/b] (kc2ocm @ Dec. 20 2006,13:39)]Don't feel like the code is not nessesary? FINE !...... Obviously your barking up the wrong hobby. You have other
Alternatives in radio operations such as GMRS and FRS.
# #All that is required is a CRACKER JACK
TICKET!.......
Stirring up the pot are we?

Callsign: KC2OCM # Class: Technician
And this is supposed to mean exactly WHAT?

w4rlr

12-21-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 21 2006,11:53)]Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)]Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?
But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I can see it now, since the Element 1 requirement is going away at the end of January, there will be efforts by some to classify amateurs based SOLELY on their knowledge of Morse and the speed they can reliably send and receive.

Sounds a lot like a bunch of guys getting together, each of them bragging about the size of their manhood. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

N2RJ

12-21-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Dec. 21 2006,18:19)]Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 20 2006,13:03)]Quote[/b] (kc2ocm @ Dec. 20 2006,13:39)]Don't feel like the code is not nessesary? FINE !...... Obviously your barking up the wrong hobby. You have other
Alternatives in radio operations such as GMRS and FRS.
All that is required is a CRACKER JACK
TICKET!.......
Stirring up the pot are we?

Callsign: KC2OCM Class: Technician
And this is supposed to mean exactly WHAT?
The motivation seems a bit weird.

Why would an NCT be flaming for the pro-code position? Something doesn't seem right. On the outset it would seem as though 'ocm simply wants to get people riled up, and nothing more.

K8MHZ

12-22-2006, 12:26 AM

I thought K4JF wrote a great letter. #

I would have liked the code requirement to stay intact for the Extras, but that is not why I liked the letter. #It was well written and most importantly proofread. #I am not too thrilled about having to certify for 15 wpm, but that does not subtract from a point well made and a constructive suggestion.

n4fz

12-22-2006, 12:32 AM

"A number of commenters agree that the Morse code requirement 'keeps individuals that would enhance the hobby from getting a license,' and that there is 'no relationship between an individual's knowledge of Morse code and that individual's knowledge of radio regulations and practices and skills necessary to operate an amateur station." # #
# #
# # #Wow! Just think of ALL those "individuals" who could have "enhanced" Amateur Radio over the decades during the Morse Code requirement by the FCC. It's like the FCC just "woke up". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #Gene 73

n6rad

12-22-2006, 12:47 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

wa4gch

12-22-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Dec. 21 2006,16:25)]Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 21 2006,11:53)]Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)]Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?
But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I can see it now, since the Element 1 requirement is going away at the end of January, there will be efforts by some to classify amateurs based SOLELY on their knowledge of Morse and the speed they can reliably send and receive.

Sounds a lot like a bunch of guys getting together, each of them bragging about the size of their manhood. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif My you know how to hurt some one http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif LOL

ad4ff

12-22-2006, 01:21 AM

Like I said before the real problem on Ham radio is the foul mouthed idiots on the lower end of 80meters. Regardless of how you feel about the code you have to agree there's not many things left that you can get your kids into. Ham radio is quickly becoming one that you cant.:( Judging from some of the posts on here and the language being used, QRZ.com doesnt care just like the FCC. CB was not a so bad when you had to have a license and the FCC enforced the rules. Now they could care less and it looks like the same thing is happening to Ham radio and it has nothing to do with code requirements. In fact most of the culprits I hear got thier Extra when it was 20wpm.:(

N0NBH

12-22-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 20 2006,07:57)]14. Based on our review of the record in the proceeding and on consideration of the various
comments on this issue, we believe that because the international requirement for telegraphy proficiency
has been eliminated, we should treat Morse code telegraphy as we do other communications techniques.
In this connection, we note that our Rules do not require individuals to pass a practical examination to
demonstrate some degree of proficiency in non-telegraphy communications techniques. Rather,
individuals demonstrate knowledge of other communication techniques and technical qualifications by
passing written examinations composed of questions that prove that the examinee possesses the
operational and technical qualifications required for the privileges authorized by the operator license.
We believe, therefore, that written examinations are sufficient to determine whether a person is qualified
to be issued an amateur radio operator license. Accordingly, we conclude that the public interest will best
be served by eliminating the telegraphy examination requirement as a separate examination requirement
in the amateur service. To achieve this result, we will amend Section 97.501 of our Rules to eliminate the
requirement that an individual demonstrate five wpm proficiency in telegraphy in order to qualify for a
General or Amateur Extra Class operator license.

This is cut straight out of the R&O. This is what most people cannot get through their heads. Morse is a mode. Since other modes are not afforded their own test why should morse code.
Greg is right on this one! Operating satellite, or packet, or Echolink, or IRLP, or TCP/IP, or whatever - is not an easy feat - yet it is not tested, and not a condition of getting a HAM license.

To all posting - I think a lot of you are forgeting an important aspect of our hobby - HAM radio is about giving - not receiving or owning. YOU (yes all of you) do not own a thing - except for our own rigs we use - and without the band allocation - they are worthless. And in the spirit of HAM radio - it's not the rules, regulations, or what HAM radio provides for us - it's what we give back to the hobby. Elemering, open repeaters and satellite/packet gateways, donated equipment, for ALL to use, and most importantly - using all that has been allocated to us. As 220 MHz and others have shown - its "Use it or Loose It" time for HAM radio.

It's time to get over this - and move forward! If nothing else - for the good of the hobby.

73 de Paul N0NBH (KB0IFU)

wr1tx

12-22-2006, 01:41 AM

Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 21 2006,13:29)]Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,11:05)]Quote (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)
Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?

But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #

I took the extra class test at the Mapple Valley Wireless Club in the State of Washington in 1990. #Written and code. #To signify the accomplishment, the MVWC presented everyone who passed the 20wpm #and written part a very beautiful certificate saying "For passing the highest level of ham radio exam's you are now a life time member in the Maple Valley Wireless Club. #It was a nice touch.
I very much enjoy 30 meter and 40 meter CW almost every evening in the winter. #I wll listen for 10 meter openings and bring the mic out. #When I contact hams on 10, I almost always get a QSL from them which I am glad to acknowledge with one of mine. #I also enjoy working new hams on CW, we have all been there at one time or another, struggling alone. #Without practice no one can improve and I am glad to help out.
cool good to hear someone will work with these new guys ...... see you on 10 meters ......

Bruce
Member....
OOTC, QCWA, ARRL ( LIFE )
SMIRK # 70 ...... and ......
on 6 since 66
I feel the same way. See you on the bands, including 10...

WA5BEN

12-22-2006, 01:55 AM

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 20 2006,16:13)]Wikipedia defines Morse Code as a form of digital communications and defines it as such:

Quote[/b] ]Morse code uses five digital states—dot, dash, short gap (between each letter), medium gap (between words), and long gap (between sentences)—to send messages via a variety of potential carriers such as electricity or light, for example using an electrical telegraph or a flashing light.

I will take their definition over that of the run of the mill armchair linguistician.
Obviously, the Wikipedia writer fails to understand the basic BINARY nature of the Continental Code (or Morse Code) that exists regardlesss of the medium. These are DIGITAL codes of base 2, because there are only TWO possible states.

CW is typically sent by on-off keying of an unmodulated carrier (and a flashlight would actually fit technically into this category), but it may be sent by any other means capable of describing two states.

The Wikipedia writer fails to understand the meaning of "state", and confuses it with the meaning of a specific "duration in a state". The statement could be corrected by saying that:

The Continental Code and similar codes, including the Morse Code, are binary codes with two possible states. The time spent in each state carries the meaning.

A dot is an "On" state with a duration of one bit-time.

A dash is an "On" state with a duration of three bit-times.

The spacing between elements of a character is an "Off" state with a duration of one bit-time.

The spacing between characters is an "Off" state with a duration of three bit-times.

The spacing between words is an "Off" state with a duration of seven (some purists would argue six) bit-times.

There is no definition of spacing for an end of sentence. The punctuation is followed by a space between words.

KE5IQL

12-22-2006, 01:59 AM

I am pleased to announce that after eight months of diligent hair pulling study I have passed the five word per minute Morse Code test.:D http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

wa4gch

12-22-2006, 02:21 AM

Quote[/b] (KE5IQL @ Dec. 21 2006,18:59)]I am pleased to announce that after eight months of diligent hair pulling study I have passed the five word per minute Morse Code test.:D http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
COOL it's still a good feeling !

kc7gnm

12-22-2006, 03:23 AM

Quote[/b] (KE5IQL @ Dec. 21 2006,21:59)]I am pleased to announce that after eight months of diligent hair pulling study I have passed the five word per minute Morse Code test.:D http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Congrats!

kl2av

12-22-2006, 03:37 AM

Quote[/b] (WA5BEN @ Dec. 21 2006,18:55)]Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 20 2006,16:13)]Wikipedia defines Morse Code as a form of digital communications and defines it as such:

Quote[/b] ]Morse code uses five digital states—dot, dash, short gap (between each letter), medium gap (between words), and long gap (between sentences)—to send messages via a variety of potential carriers such as electricity or light, for example using an electrical telegraph or a flashing light.

I will take their definition over that of the run of the mill armchair linguistician.
Obviously, the Wikipedia writer fails to understand the basic BINARY nature of the Continental Code (or Morse Code) that exists regardlesss of the medium. #These are DIGITAL codes of base 2, because there are only TWO possible states.

CW is typically sent by on-off keying of an unmodulated carrier (and a flashlight would actually fit technically into this category), but it may be sent by any other means capable of describing two states.

The Wikipedia writer fails to understand the meaning of "state", and confuses it with the meaning of a specific "duration in a state". #The statement could be corrected by saying that:

The Continental Code and similar codes, including the Morse Code, are binary codes with two possible states. #The time spent in each state carries the meaning.

A dot is an "On" state with a duration of one bit-time.

A dash is an "On" state with a duration of three bit-times.

The spacing between elements of a character is an "Off" state with a duration of one bit-time.

The spacing between characters is an "Off" state with a duration of three bit-times.

The spacing between words is an "Off" state with a duration of seven (some purists would argue six) bit-times.

There is no definition of spacing for an end of sentence. #The punctuation is followed by a space between words.
Question

How many of you guys send code via a MFJ from your computer after you past you test?

Also coming from the commercial side of the house when it comes down to it i could pass the 5wpm test but i have heard tons of you complain that 5wpm was to slow and that it really did teach much. I would have to agree i think that voice and data on HF is what most of the people where trying to get i most say aftre moving to Alaska and learn just how bad the Telco's are up here thats what i want mine for. Packet on hf will atleast get use to seattle and there are time when we need that.

We have a very large VHF/UHF as well as i have been building out a large GMRS and National SOS network up here for a few years now and just for our safty i'm glad to know that HF is avaible to me even if it is just Phone and Packet.

I know you guys think people are lazy not to learn code i have to admit i have been studing the cds and its not that hard what is hard is trying to work full time and stay on top of it all if i was doin nothing but listen and coping this for a1 -3 months i couls go take it and past.

But i think the FCC main point is CW is availble via new tech today you have very good tnc/pactor devises that will not only send cw but decode it for you and do it very fast leaving the band open more..

Its called modern equiment the ts2000 has build in keyer and decoder right on the screen just get rid of the older radios and upgrade.

I like Dos i run Linux bcause it better then windows and up todate.

So rip me apart

73
Brian
KL2AV

K4JF

12-22-2006, 03:46 AM

Quote[/b] (KE5IQL @ Dec. 20 2006,19:59)]I am pleased to announce that after eight months of diligent hair pulling study I have passed the five word per minute Morse Code test.:D http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Congratulations! #You will find it has been worth the effort. #Good luck & 73!

K4JF

12-22-2006, 03:49 AM

Quote[/b] (k8mhz @ Dec. 20 2006,18:26)]I thought K4JF wrote a great letter. #

I would have liked the code requirement to stay intact for the Extras, but that is not why I liked the letter. #It was well written and most importantly proofread. #I am not too thrilled about having to certify for 15 wpm, but that does not subtract from a point well made and a constructive suggestion.
Thanks. But I still missed a typo in the last sentence. :o\

K4JF

12-22-2006, 03:53 AM

Quote[/b] (kl2av @ Dec. 20 2006,21:37)]How many of you guys send code via a MFJ from your computer after you past you test?

73
Brian
KL2AV
No computer code here, Brian. I used nothing but a straight key until about 10 years ago, when I tried to learn to use a keyer. That was more difficult (for me) than learning the code in the first place. But my wrist just couldn't handle the straight key any more. (Very painful!) I'm still not proficient with those paddles!
:o(

n0zoa

12-22-2006, 04:03 AM

N0TTW

12-22-2006, 04:37 AM

Quote[/b] (KE5IQL @ Dec. 20 2006,20:59)]I am pleased to announce that after eight months of diligent hair pulling study I have passed the five word per minute Morse Code test. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
CONGRATS!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

N0TTW

12-22-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote[/b] (kl2av @ Dec. 20 2006,21:37)]How many of you guys send code via a MFJ from your computer after you past you test?

73
Brian
KL2AV
Straight key all the way here!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I need to keep the basics of communication honed. I can't always rely on complicated technology to keep me on the air.

If power budgets in a disaster area limit what I can use, I need to be able too go QRP and tap out signals. Laptops, TNCs, SSB transmitters waste too much power in those circumstances.

KE5FVP

12-22-2006, 05:09 AM

I applaud the good work that all forward thinking Hams have done concerning this most welcome change. The CB Craze is over therefore I believe that the disgraceful conduct of the " Unlicensed" will be minimal. I believe that a Gentleman is a Gentleman in any frequency..Many thanks and I'll hope to see you on 10 meters...

from: Roswell, New Mexico....Little green men from space...

n9uom

12-22-2006, 06:10 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KC8VWM

12-22-2006, 06:32 AM

Congrats on the code!!

n1dvj

12-22-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote[/b] (KI4PEQ @ Dec. 21 2006,16:25)]Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 21 2006,11:53)]Quote[/b] (KG7FS @ Dec. 21 2006,10:50)]Since I like code, I guess you could call me a "Know Code Ham"?
But to what level are you that KNOW CODE HAM ..... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I can see it now, since the Element 1 requirement is going away at the end of January, there will be efforts by some to classify amateurs based SOLELY on their knowledge of Morse and the speed they can reliably send and receive.

Sounds a lot like a bunch of guys getting together, each of them bragging about the size of their manhood. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
It happened before too. When CW was reduced to 5wpm, there were some small-brained individuals that said they would never upgrade from 'advanced' since it was the only license class that SHOWED they had higher than 5 CW speed. There was even one idiot that was claiming that he wrote the FCC to get a reduction from extra to advanced.

But as usuall, most of the rantings were lies and just emotional spouting.

wa4gch

12-22-2006, 11:46 AM

N0TTW ....

"If power budgets in a disaster area limit what I can use, I need to be able too go QRP and tap out signals. Laptops, TNCs, SSB transmitters waste too much power in those circumstances. "

Maby 20 years ago but today you would find it very hard to convince anyone code is needed .....

N7YA

12-22-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote[/b] (kl2av @ Dec. 21 2006,20:37)]How many of you guys send code via a MFJ from your computer after you past you test?
Im a bug guy all the way...i have a keyer built into the rig but only used it for a few months a couple of years ago with a couple of different mini-paddles.

I have a collection of straight keys and a couple of old bugs. The main one i use now, and have been using since the mid 80's is a late 20's SpeedX bug...but sometimes ill change it up and open the collection and grab an oldie...some old Bunnell or Foote & Pierson Railroad #straight key from the 1800's...wow, what GREAT action those old keys have. they were designed with the professional telegrapher in mind. I spent a couple of years collecting Morse and general telegraph related items...I have some interesting stuff, I plan to put the pics up online eventually. Im better with radios and telegraph than i am with computers.

Some minor history, I passed my first code test in 1983 with an FCC examiner, passed 20 wpm in 1984 at age 18, but didnt get my extra til 1997...CW all the way here, I just like it. But to answer your original question, I have only used a keyboard to make a contact once in my life, out of thousands of contacts over the years...only once, and i remember it well, His call was KA6ONN, it was back in 1984 at Frank, KL7HNU's place (Hes KL7FH now for those who care)...only one time, it just wasnt the same. as a matter of fact, it was weird to me...I was typing and CW was going out all perfect and stuff, it just didnt seem right to me...no swing, no personality, too...perfect.

Its all manually operated hand gear for me, not a purist, i just like what i like...but im secure enough with myself that it just doesnt bother me how someone makes a contact. Im just happy to have someone to chat with on the air. I still love ham radio, always will, even with all the changes...its still a thrill for me to tune the bands and see whos there, jump into a pileup, or if im lucky, find the DX just tuning up.

Kind of a long answer, but hey, I love talking about ham radio to whoever will listen. Most dont care, but a few ask further...unfortunately, its our own ranks that takes it WAY too seriously. I am not about to discount any of the OT's that blazed the trail, their commitment was harder than anything we have to go through today...but that shouldnt diminish the enjoyment of new people just coming in. nor should anyone be barred from the pleasure of ham radio. If someone acts like a liability, trust me, were all quite sensitized to the subject now...a bad operator will be quickly singled out. especially if they are new!

I dont know, Its been said on here that the brotherhood and sense of comraderie is gone from ham radio, but im thinking that the new folks will have that sense on their own, those of us who have been around a little while at least may not understand that, some dont want to understand that, but i bet they will likely work that much harder to be better ops and will build that comraderie with other new hams....I want to be involved in all of it. Im a ham, Youre a ham...if you have a call and i meet you face to face, we have common ground.

I refuse to make a "no work" list based on someones license class...I will only make that list based on someones lack of class. Still plenty of good hams around and plenty coming into the hobby. I havent given up on ham radio just yet...i just hope this godawful chapter simmers down soon, we arent helping our future much.

An offer:

If any new hams want to get in some CW practice, I will gladly make a sked with you, time and band conditions permitting, and work any speed that you are comfortable with...The testing requirement may be gone, but the joy of CW isnt. my straight key sending is solid and my timing is good, it will be good practice. let me know, I want you to feel welcome no matter what happens, I want you to be excited to be a part of the tradition, perhaps upgrade and pass it on to the next crew. Basically, I want you to stay! I mean that.

73...Adam, N7YA

w0vu

12-22-2006, 12:43 PM

N0MLR

12-22-2006, 12:54 PM

There was a guy who once lived down the street from me. His name was Bill. Bill had Polio when he was a kid and could not walk. To make a living he learned to work on Type Writers a craft that he was good at. Bill later got into CB. He had a drinking problem and was known to pass out on the Mic button and burn up Finals. in short he was your average CBer.
Later when the Code was droped for the Technician License he took the test and passed. This was also about the same time he stoped drinking. Bill learned the operation rules and became a very good operator. He tested and went on to General and later Advanced and Extra. I never heard him slip into his CB isms and he always operated in the finest tradition of ham radio. He was the Trustee of the local repeater for the Club. He was always willing to elmer others.
How do I know all this? Well it was because of Bill that I went on to take the test myself. It was because of Bill that I got into Packet. Even though I had a Commercial Ticket and knew more about Radio and Electronics than Bill he was in effect my Elmer for Ham Radio.
Bill is gone now and I miss my friend. However he and his legacy live on. You see his call is now mine (Vanity Call) and I to continue the tradition and example that he set as a Ham Operator. I would gladly elmer anyone who needs help.
You see.. If someone is a CBer they can make a fine Ham Operator and contribute to the Art of Ham Radio. Don't be to fast to pass judgement or you may just have to eat your words.
May you rest in peace Bill !

73

N0MLR

kd4jzz

12-22-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote[/b] (N0MLR @ Dec. 22 2006,05:54)]There was a guy who once lived down the street from me. His name was Bill. Bill had Polio when he was a kid and could not walk. To make a living he learned to work on Type Writers a craft that he was good at. Bill later got into CB. He had a drinking problem and was known to pass out on the Mic button and burn up Finals. in short he was your average CBer.
Later when the Code was droped for the Technician License he took the test and passed. This was also about the same time he stoped drinking. Bill learned the operation rules and became a very good operator. He tested and went on to General and later Advanced and Extra. I never heard him slip into his CB isms and he always operated in the finest tradition of ham radio. He was the Trustee of the local repeater for the Club. He was always willing to elmer others.
How do I know all this? Well it was because of Bill that I went on to take the test myself. It was because of Bill that I got into Packet. Even though I had a Commercial Ticket and knew more about Radio and Electronics than Bill he was in effect my Elmer for Ham Radio.
Bill is gone now and I miss my friend. However he and his legacy live on. You see his call is now mine (Vanity Call) and I to continue the tradition and example that he set as a Ham Operator. I would gladly elmer anyone who needs help.
You see.. If someone is a CBer they can make a fine Ham Operator and contribute to the Art of Ham Radio. Don't be to fast to pass judgement or you may just have to eat your words.
May you rest in peace Bill !

73

N0MLR
Here here, The best post on here yet. Kudos......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ON6KE

12-22-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote[/b] ]Don't even dare try and tell me I didn't try.

KB2UBH you didn't try hard enough..

Quote[/b] ]I am an industrial electrician by trade, work on all kinds of PLC's, PC's, radio controlled automated equipment. I am also a former flight medic with a medivac company. I was also in Nuclear Weapons Electronics in the service. I know how to study. Code is the only thing I have never been able to master.

Why mention education, we all know it has nothing to do with it, I know people with almost zip education that far surpass me with 50+ WPM. Only mindset and perseverance are required.

w3wn

12-22-2006, 01:44 PM

Does anyone out there know of a person, formerly of State College, PA, named Ronald G. Robinson?

You see, waaaaayyyy back when, post-college, we shared a townhouse, later a house with some friends. Ron was always fascinated by Amateur Radio, and more than a little jealous of what I could do on a 70' piece of wire thrown out the window with an HT-37 & SB-301. However, he refused to work on the code towards a ticket, claiming that the FCC was going to drop the code "any day now," so why bother learning it?

That was over 25 years ago, by the way. I lost touch with RGR after I took a job out of town and moved away. But if anyone knows him, please let him know that his prediction has finally come true... of course, he's missed out on over 25 years of operating fun, but that was his choice to wait...

73

WA3KYY

12-22-2006, 01:49 PM

Ever since this R&O came out there have been quite a few members of our local club on the repeater asking me questions about HF and what it's like. #What kind of antenna do they need, what are the QSOs like, how to set up for HF mobile, etc.

This is going to be fun!! I get to be an Elmer http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Not that I wasn't already helping a few of the yourger members who passed their General and/or Extra already but the more the merrier.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

wa4gch

12-22-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote[/b] (ON6KE @ Dec. 22 2006,06:35)]Quote[/b] ]Don't even dare try and tell me I didn't try.

KB2UBH you didn't try hard enough..

Quote[/b] ]I am an industrial electrician by trade, work on all kinds of PLC's, PC's, radio controlled automated equipment. I am also a former flight medic with a medivac company. I was also in Nuclear Weapons Electronics in the service. I know how to study. Code is the only thing I have never been able to master.

Why mention education, we all know it has nothing to do with it, I know people with almost zip education that far surpass me with 50+ WPM. Only mindset and perseverance are required.
Hummmm maby I could become the UGLY AMERICAN .....

Ill let you fill in the line ........

kb7rky

12-22-2006, 04:04 PM

It is sad that CW has finally gone by the wayside (it was on it's deathbed for years, anyway)...a boon for those of us who just could not pick it up, but also a curse.

Now, watch as the airwaves become polluted with the likes of K1MAN, Jack Gerritsen, etc., rolling over legitimate contacts with their filth, their diatribe, and their garbage, who think that they own certain portions of the airwaves, and also think they can do whatever they wish. The FCC will try to take away their tickets, but, in all reality, all they'll really get is a slap on the wrist and a stern letter saying 'no-no'. And, like the slime they are, they'll find a way back to cause us more headaches.

Then who will say 'told ya so?'

That's right...the die-hard CW Users.

A short-term fix, though, would be to change the testing pool questions to tougher ones every few months to weed out the undesirables that will, undoubtedly, find their way into the amateur bands.

How much longer will it be before the amateur bands become unregulated like CB? I shudder to think of *when* (not if) that day comes.

Doug, KB7RKY

K7JEM

12-22-2006, 04:11 PM

What we really need is an in depth psychological evaluation for all new hams. Those that have the predisposition to create problems won't be let in.

That would be a better test than any code or written.

Joe

kb7rky

12-22-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 22 2006,08:11)]What we really need is an in depth psychological evaluation for all new hams. Those that have the predisposition to create problems won't be let in.

That would be a better test than any code or written.

Joe
Try telling that to Jack Gerritsen or K1MAN...probably nice guys to start with, but inevitably showed their true colors after they got their tickets.

Doug, KB7RKY

N3JI

12-22-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote[/b] (kl2av @ Dec. 21 2006,21:37)]
Question

How many of you guys send code via a MFJ from your computer after you past you test?

Also coming from the commercial side of the house when it comes down to it i could pass the 5wpm test but i have heard tons of you complain that 5wpm was to slow and that it really did teach much. I would have to agree i think that voice and data on HF is what most of the people where trying to get i most say aftre moving to Alaska and learn just how bad the Telco's are up here thats what i want mine for. Packet on hf will atleast get use to seattle and there are time when we need that.

I know you guys think people are lazy not to learn code i have to admit i have been studing the cds and its not that hard what is hard is trying to work full time and stay on top of it all if i was doin nothing but listen and coping this for a1 -3 months i couls go take it and past.

So rip me apart

73
Brian
KL2AV
Here is my Morse "MODEM":
http://mysite.verizon.net/res1t267/PaddleSm.jpg

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Okay, maybe it's only the "MOD" part, the "DEM" part being my ears & brain. Granted I don't use it often, but I maintain my skills where I can still pass the 20wpm test I needed for my Extra.

I had to pass the 5wpm test for my Novice, just like most of the other "OTs" out there. Yes it's slow, but you have to start somewhere! I'm "only" 36, and have been licensed almost 20 years. Does that make me an OT or OF? I really don't care. The only thing I did to build speed was listen to the bands, the ARRL speed-builder tapes (no CDs back then!), and W1AW. It took me a few weeks (six, if I remember correctly) to go from ~7wpm to fast enough to pass the 20wpm test. But, I worked my tail off! I woke up early and either listened to the bands or my tapes for 30 minutes. I then used my PC at work to generate random strings of characters for about 30 mins during my lunch, then again in the evening I did the tapes or W1AW for another 30 mins or so.

So I woke up a little early, did a little during my lunch hour, and again a little after dinner. I would challenge anyone that says they don't have 30 minutes at different times of the day. After all, don't "normal" Americans watch like 4 hours of TV per day? And I didn't always do it three times a day, either. Sometimes things got in the way, but more often than not, I knew I had to work at it so I *made* the time. Like anything else, you'll find the time if you're serious about it. Kind of like working out -- I make time for that, too. Sure sometimes I only get 20 minutes, but it's better than not at all!

I agree with K4JF's line of thinking. I thought code testing should have been kept for Extra, at some speed. I also like the Elmering requirement, but I think it would be difficult to prove as an upgrade requirement. I have helped folks in many ways (over the air, email, phone, etc.), so I think it would be hard to put some type of requirement in place for that.

So that means I like the idea of HF access without code, and I like the idea of an entry level license that includes HF. Like a modified Novice, something that includes small, low power parts of most bands, but does not limit the mode allowed. That way, they could get their feet wet and learn the ropes.

But alas, what we have now will be the same thing post-code-test in that most of the new Generals have little knowlege of HF. The only difference is that the previous ones had to learn code. Those that want to do code will anyway, those that don't, won't. Just like now. Like I mentioned before, I have the skill, but really don't care for it. I keep it up because I worked hard for it. Other than that, I wouldn't touch the stuff either.

And I would welcome anyone to HF that wants to join us. I enjoy talking to and helping new folks, so come on down, listen, and do it right. If you make a mistake, that's okay too. There isn't a person on (any) band that hasn't made a mistake. The license you and I have allows us to experiment, learn, make friends we probably would never have access to otherwise, and above all, HAVE FUN! Other than bonafide emergency communications, why else do we do what we do?

Sorry for going on kind of long. I don't think you're lazy, and I'm not going to rip you apart. But, I honestly believe that if I did it, anyone can. If you think the code if fun, great. I kind of prefer other parts of Amateur Radio, and I don't think it should be required for HF access. Maybe some day I'll get the code bug and really get into it -- it wouldn't surprize me. I have gotten into parts of Amateur Radio I never thought I would 19+ years ago. And it's always been fun. When it stops being fun, I'll sell out and let my license expire. Until then, you'll find me anywhere between 80m & 900 MHz...

Joe, N3JI

kc2jfs

12-22-2006, 05:29 PM

Just passed my EXTRA last night. I wanted to get it before the oxymoron of NO CODE EXTRA went into effect !!

K7JEM

12-22-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote[/b] (kc2jfs @ Dec. 22 2006,10:29)]Just passed my EXTRA last night. I wanted to get it before the oxymoron of NO CODE EXTRA went into effect !!
I think there's an echo in here. Seen this posted on a couple of other threads.

Way to go.

Now, go home.

Joe

wa4gch

12-22-2006, 05:47 PM

Heck don't forget one of these .....

K4JF

12-22-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote[/b] (kc2jfs @ Dec. 21 2006,11:29)]Just passed my EXTRA last night. I wanted to get it before the oxymoron of NO CODE EXTRA went into effect !!
Congratulations!!! Waytago!

ke6oud

12-22-2006, 06:10 PM

A quote from this weeks newsline. Read it & move on....:

THAT FINAL ITEM: #RESTRUCTURING EDITORIAL -- WHAT WE THINK WILL HAPPEN - PART 1

Lastly this week, unlike most of the vitriolic postings found on ham radio websites claiming that elimination of Morse testing means the end of ham radio, most observers we have spoken with do not see much of a change in the hobby. #Amateur Radio Newsline's Bruce Tennat, K6PZW, is here with a rare editorial comment that has our view:

--

Right now, there are primarily two groups that are making their feelings known. #Those angry with the FCC for deleting the Morse requirement and those who believe the abolition of Morse testing is long overdue. #Each side is very vocal, but they are, hopefully, the minority. #A loud minority, but a minority none-the-less. #Lets look this week at hams who are perturbed with the FCC action. #

Some of those who are upset are calling December 15th the "Day the Morse Music Died." #This, as reference to the old Don McLean pop tune "American Pie." #A song that tells the story of the tragic death of three Rock and Roll greats in a plane crash just outside Clear Lake, Iowa on February 3rd 1959. #

These hams see only doom and gloom, predicting that all of ham radio will quickly become a wasteland invaded by CB operators and 10 1/2 meter Freebanders. #What those espousing this knee-jerk reaction fail to realize is that these two groups together outnumber the worlds ham radio community by an estimated 10 or 12 to 1. #

If there was going to be a CB or Freeband takeover of the ham bands, it would have taken place back in the 1960's. #It didn't. #Nor did it happen in the 1970's or 1980's or 1990's or early 2000's. #The reason for this is simple. #These folks are having a lot of fun where they are. Most legal CB ops are happy where they are on 11 meters. #And except for a few forays now and again into 10 meters, the number of Freebanders showing up in the ham bands is very small. #Likely there are a lot more shotrtwave broadcasters than Freebanders messing up the Amateur H-F spectrum. #

The bottom line here is that Freebanders really do not want to bring a lot of attention to their unlicensed operations. #The full scale invasion envisioned by some disgruntled hams is just not going to happen. #Its pure myth and nothing more.

Another myth to dispel is that of dropping the code meaning that tens of thousands or even millions of people will line up to be tested for ham licenses. #That could happen -- a long time in the future -- but only if ham radio as a class of citizens commits to spending tens of millions of dollars in advertising to let the world know that it exists. #

The truth be known, ham radio is not well known outside of the hobby and the money to advertise it prime time on television does not exist. #So as word slowly leaks out of this change, we may get a small trickle of new, technically minded folks entering the hobby. #But don't expect to see long lines outside of V-E Test sessions. #Like the mythical Freeband invasion it too is not going to happen.

Nor is any mass exodus from the VHF bands onto the High Frequency bands going to take place. #That already happened several years ago when Technicians who had previously passed a 5 word per minute code test and the old Technician slash General class theory exam were grandfathered to General. #

But there is no such paper upgrade this time around. #Sure Technicians will soon have Tech Plus privileges on 10 meters, but that’s likely not enough of an incentive to get many folks whose only investment has been an H-T to fork out $1000 to $2000 or more for a complete H-F station. #

More likely you will soon hear more repeaters being equipped with High Frequency remote base systems showing up. #Remote relay systems that afford multiple users the ability to get onto 10 meters at almost no cost to them.

Last but by no means least, there are those hams who are threatening to sell off their gear and leave the hobby. #Again, this is more knee jerk reaction than it is reality. #The chances are that a year from now, when all the dust has settled, these same operators will be on the air, holding QSO's with all who come along, having long ago forgotten their words said or posted in the heat of the debate. #

And to that very small number who actually may make good on that threat -- we say -- have a good life in whatever new hobby you take up #We, and most others will still be here.

For the Amateur Radio Newsline, I'm Bruce Tennant, K6PZW, in Los Angeles.

--

As we view it here at Amateur Radio Newsline, there will likely be little if any impact on ham radio as a result of the FCC dropping Morse testing. #All the negativity lives only in the minds of those who believe that everyone coming to the hobby needs to pass a C-W test because they and we for forced to do so, many years ago. #And that ends the newscast and editorial comment for this week. #(ARNewsline™)

**

NEWSCAST CLOSE

K4JF

12-22-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote[/b] (KE5FVP @ Dec. 20 2006,23:09)]I believe that a Gentleman is a Gentleman in any frequency..
Can't disagree with you in the slightest!!

KA3TGV

12-22-2006, 08:02 PM

I'm not fond of the diminished and soon to be extinct CW testing requirment for a ham license. I did not post comments with the FCC concerning 05-535. I thought the proceeding was pro forma, pretty much a done deal.

I am a slow code General, a fact I am not especially proud of. I was licensed as a Novice in 1988 and upgraded to Technician in 1991. Sometime in the mid 1990's I was grandfathered to Technician Plus.

I never got on the air until 1998. It seemed there was a lack of time and money up to that time. I got on using slow CW on the Novice bands at 80, 40, and 15 meters.

This was the most fun I've had with Amateur Radio.

I believe Restructuring took effect on 4-30-2000. I knew the Commission had stated they were going to stop maintaining separate license classes for Technician and Technician Plus, despite a challenge from ARRL.

I was concerned my about my permanent code credit from having held a Novice license being diminished because of FCC license class record-keeping changes, so I upgraded to General in July of 2000. I never used 2 meters, or had any equipment for that band, until the Spring of 2001.

By rights, a fellow like me should have been held in-grade until I passed a proper code test. 5 wpm was and is, after all, pretty basic.

Although I or any of us don't have that much control over the licensing requirements at the time of testing or upgrading, I should have been more diligent and worked on the code speed years before I did so I could have taken and passed a proper CW examination.

Part of the problem with the great CW proficiency divide in ham radio culture is that CW testing speeds were overemphasized decades after the public necessity for them had disappeared.

After Vietnam, the FCC, with some prodding by the ARRL, should have taken the bull by the horns and issued a NPRM to the effect the wartime CW proficiency standards for an amateur license were no longer in the public interest.

10 wpm would have made an excellent requirement for a General or Advanced class license, and 20 wpm would have remained fine for the Amateur Extra ticket, a license that really should have been reserved for high level technicians and operators.

The Amateur Extra ticket has lost it's sheen. Sure, if you work through all of the problems in the study guide and make it a point to understand all of the underlying concepts, the Extra class licensee has to be the master of a substantial amount of material.

I wonder how frequently this occurs, what with all of the emphasis on 'studying with Gordo' i.e. remembering the correct response to the multiple-choice question. Taking the questions and answers out of the public domain would certainly help, but what lawyer wants to push for what would be an exemption to the Watergate-era Freedom of Information Act as it concerns amateur radio testing? Probably will never happen.

And by the way, I enjoy operating CW, AM, and FM on the amateur bands. And I'll work anyone who can stand having me bore them to death (hi) regardless of when they were licensed or what the requirements were.

Attitude is everything.

73

Doug
KA3TGV

KB1SF

12-22-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote[/b] (ky1v @ Dec. 20 2006,16:48)]Quote[/b] (kb1sf @ Dec. 20 2006,17:24)][QUOTE=Quote ]
Wait...so, if the government states it [opinion], then it must be true?

LMAO
Well, when the government states its opinion AND then writes regulation around that opinion, then, by default, that opinion becomes true in its consequenses.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
You are mistaken. It become law, not truth.
No, I don't think so.

I agree that we are talking semantics. But the phrase "becoming true in its consequences" means that regardless of whether or not something is "true", the consequences of the outcome(s) are exactly the same as if it were.

Which, in turn, makes the whole "truth" issue quite moot.

And, regulations are NOT laws. They can sometimes implement laws, but they are not laws in and of themselves.

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF

n0zoa

12-22-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 22 2006,04:46)]N0TTW ....

"If power budgets in a disaster area limit what I can use, I need to be able too go QRP and tap out signals. Laptops, TNCs, SSB transmitters waste too much power in those circumstances. "

Maby 20 years ago but today you would find it very hard to convince anyone code is needed .....
you can also tap out morse code on a wall or big metal barrel or just about anything because it can probably be made out better than trying to hear some one yell. so it is also good to know the code because it can be used in other forms other than radio. The stories i have read about is that the sailors that where traped when the ship capsised at pearl harbor taped out morse code to let rescuers where they were at

K4JF

12-22-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote[/b] (kb1sf @ Dec. 21 2006,15:28)]And, regulations are NOT laws. #They can sometimes implement laws, but they are not laws in and of themselves.

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
But they have the force of laws. And "a difference that makes no difference is no difference".

A regulation is the detail of a law, actually.

kc7gnm

12-22-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote[/b] (n0zoa @ Dec. 22 2006,17:44)]Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 22 2006,04:46)]N0TTW ....

"If power budgets in a disaster area limit what I can use, I need to be able too go QRP and tap out signals. Laptops, TNCs, SSB transmitters waste too much power in those circumstances. "

Maby 20 years ago but today you would find it very hard to convince anyone code is needed .....
you can also tap out morse code on a wall or big metal barrel or just about anything because it can probably be made out better than trying to hear some one yell. so it is also good to know the code because it can be used in other forms other than radio. The stories i have read about is that the sailors that where traped when the ship capsised at pearl harbor taped out morse code to let rescuers where they were at
That is assuming it is a ham that knows the code is trapped. Given the percentage of hams to non-hams I would say that would be a very small percentage of that ever happening. If 1941 is the last time you can remember that happening (and those were military men too btw) then your argument holds no weight what so ever. Come up with a better argument than that.

n0zoa

12-23-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 22 2006,16:48)]Quote[/b] (n0zoa @ Dec. 22 2006,17:44)]Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 22 2006,04:46)]N0TTW ....

"If power budgets in a disaster area limit what I can use, I need to be able too go QRP and tap out signals. Laptops, TNCs, SSB transmitters waste too much power in those circumstances. "

Maby 20 years ago but today you would find it very hard to convince anyone code is needed .....
you can also tap out morse code on a wall or big metal barrel or just about anything because it can probably be made out better than trying to hear some one yell. so it is also good to know the code because it can be used in other forms other than radio. The stories i have read about is that the sailors that where traped when the ship capsised at pearl harbor taped out morse code to let rescuers where they were at
That is assuming it is a ham that knows the code is trapped. Given the percentage of hams to non-hams I would say that would be a very small percentage of that ever happening. If 1941 is the last time you can remember that happening (and those were military men too btw) then your argument holds no weight what so ever. Come up with a better argument than that.
that is funny because i remember when i was a kid being taught what SOS means and what it sounds like way before i even knew about ham radio. and i willing to bet that you know what SOS means and what it sounds like in morse code. and that would be good enough to get rescued. lol they even used morse code on a wall in star trek movie to get them to stand away from the wall before they blew it up to break them out of jail they were in

AF3Y

12-23-2006, 12:14 AM

Greg.... I dont believe I have said anything on this forum about "dumbing down" of Ham Radio. When/where did I say that?
But, No, I did not lodge a comment regarding the removal or retention of CW. #It was going to happen, regardless of how many comments for retention the FCC received. It was a done deal, just a matter of time.
I personally do not use CW often, and I am not very good at it. However, I have been copying more QSOs lately, and I have been copying W1AW a lot more lately. I have a feeling that I will want to abandon the SSB portion of the hobby sooner, if not later. I might be wrong, and I hope I am, but the thought of the CB boys (If they are similiar to the RedNecks here in SC) hopping in with their "Good Buddy" garbage tends to sicken me.
By the way, I am a 5WPM Extra, but I believe I could pass 15WPM now, and I hope to improve on that. I admit that learning CW was Tough for me, VERY tough. #I had a mental block and really did not Want to learn it. Now, I am very glad I did.
CW or no CW, my Personal opinion is that the testing must be toughened to keep out the CB boys and the "Look at them there seatcovers in that convertible!" trucker types. They ARE coming, you can bet on it.You can disagree, for whatever reason, that is certainly your perogative.. I will not change my opinion. 73, #Gene - N3UO

N3JI

12-23-2006, 01:06 AM

Quote[/b] (kc7gnm @ Dec. 22 2006,17:48)]Quote[/b] (n0zoa @ Dec. 22 2006,17:44)]Quote[/b] (wa4gch @ Dec. 22 2006,04:46)]N0TTW ....

"If power budgets in a disaster area limit what I can use, I need to be able too go QRP and tap out signals. Laptops, TNCs, SSB transmitters waste too much power in those circumstances. "

Maby 20 years ago but today you would find it very hard to convince anyone code is needed .....
you can also tap out morse code on a wall or big metal barrel or just about anything because it can probably be made out better than trying to hear some one yell. so it is also good to know the code because it can be used in other forms other than radio. The stories i have read about is that the sailors that where traped when the ship capsised at pearl harbor taped out morse code to let rescuers where they were at
That is assuming it is a ham that knows the code is trapped. Given the percentage of hams to non-hams I would say that would be a very small percentage of that ever happening. If 1941 is the last time you can remember that happening (and those were military men too btw) then your argument holds no weight what so ever. Come up with a better argument than that.
Funny story...

There is a school here in the Dallas area that was part of the initial ARRL "Big Project", and of course, the goal was to get kids interested in Amateur Radio. Scores of kids (and even quite a few parents) got licensed. Many went on to learn code and get their General class license. It didn't take them long to figure out that they could tap to each other in class and trade answers during tests. Apparently, one of the teachers recognized it as Morse and they got themselves into some pretty good trouble. True story...

Joe, N3JI

N3JI

12-23-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote[/b] (N3UO @ Dec. 22 2006,18:14)]Greg.... I dont believe I have said anything on this forum about "dumbing down" of Ham Radio. When/where did I say that?
But, No, I did not lodge a comment regarding the removal or retention of CW. It was going to happen, regardless of how many comments for retention the FCC received. It was a done deal, just a matter of time.
I personally do not use CW often, and I am not very good at it. However, I have been copying more QSOs lately, and I have been copying W1AW a lot more lately. I have a feeling that I will want to abandon the SSB portion of the hobby sooner, if not later. I might be wrong, and I hope I am, but the thought of the CB boys (If they are similiar to the RedNecks here in SC) hopping in with their "Good Buddy" garbage tends to sicken me.
By the way, I am a 5WPM Extra, but I believe I could pass 15WPM now, and I hope to improve on that. I admit that learning CW was Tough for me, VERY tough. I had a mental block and really did not Want to learn it. Now, I am very glad I did.
CW or no CW, my Personal opinion is that the testing must be toughened to keep out the CB boys and the "Look at them there seatcovers in that convertible!" trucker types. They ARE coming, you can bet on it.You can disagree, for whatever reason, that is certainly your perogative.. I will not change my opinion. 73, Gene - N3UO
What if nothing on the bands change? Will you change your opinion then? I just don't see the massive influx of lids that you do when they have a perfectly good (??) band where they are now (for their use, anyway). They don't need more power (they run as much as they can afford now), the don't have to identify (would you??), and they don't have to lift a finger or spend any more $$$ on radios or antennas to continue as they are. No, I just don't see them finding motivation to "flood" into the Amateur Bands. What would they be gaining? I think they'd be losing that all-important anonymity that allows them the "freedoms" they have now.

You know, I have to admit something though. I *DESPISE* the cookie-cutter QSOs so rampant on the bands. I often stop & listen (and sometimes participate) in the more exciting QSOs. Yes, it can get edgy late at night on 75m -- I (and those I talk to down there) purposely hold the edgy stuff for after midnight. Hopefully, your young kids aren't up listening that late. I know there is stuff that's worse than edgy, and downright garbage, but I'm SOOOO tired of "antenna here is .... rig is .... running about .... watts weather is ............." I mean, between that and the Geritol nets you find most of the time... BOOOOOORRRRING!! I'm not saying you can't talk about what you want (including Studebaker bumper collecting if you care to), but I'm not dropping F-bombs every 5 minutes either. I promise to keep turning my VFO if you do. It's not like somebody's forcing you to sit there and listen. To me, common language in adult circles is okay after the Harmonics are off to dream-land. Any kids up that late are going to see and hear **MUCH** worse on TV -- even on the Cartoon Network. Have you all watched that channel after about 10pm?? Makes me wonder if some of the 11m guys didn't start a television network... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Sorry -- that's how I see it.

Joe, N3JI

KC8VWM

12-23-2006, 05:07 AM

Quote[/b] (n0zoa @ Dec. 22 2006,17:13)]they even used morse code on a wall in star trek movie to get them to stand away from the wall before they blew it up to break them out of jail they were in
I remember that...

Also saw a recent Star Trek Voyager episode use CW. Capt Janeway was listening and "secretly" intercepted and decoded a CW message (20-25wpm?) sent when she was "trapped" inside a 1940's recreation of Nazi Germany (but with aliens wearing Nazi uniforms) in the Holideck.

n0zoa

12-23-2006, 06:20 AM

Quote[/b] (kc8vwm @ Dec. 22 2006,22:07)]Quote[/b] (n0zoa @ Dec. 22 2006,17:13)]they even used morse code on a wall in star trek movie to get them to stand away from the wall before they blew it up to break them out of jail they were in
I remember that...

Also saw a recent Star Trek Voyager episode use CW. Capt Janeway was listening and "secretly" intercepted and decoded a CW message (20-25wpm?) sent when she was "trapped" inside a 1940's recreation of Nazi Germany (but with aliens wearing Nazi uniforms) in the Holideck.
so i guess moral of this if star trek is representation of what MIGHT be in the future 400 or 500 years from now , morse code will certainly not die.

W1LWT

12-23-2006, 07:03 AM

WELCOME all CBers ... GOOD BYE OLD FARTS with Brain farts with blockage..Good bye CW testing welcome All new CBers and new techs and be a real HAM enjoy the hobby as it should be FOR ALL each and every person who whats it and enjoy the good aspects of it. AND throw away the keys and pop up the keyboards and laptops and enjoy the new modern going hobby for it now it will grow as it should with new ideas and new blood.THS hobby will grow now and expand as should be doing and not being held back by blind thinkers.

THUMBS up FCC and Ill do a jig.

ten things to do with a old key:

1. Add it to a boat mooring....
2. Throw it the air and pretent its a bird to shoot at.
3. Skim it accross the water to see how far it goes....
4. Set it on the train tracks and watch it crush.
5.Throw it off a bridge watch it hit the water...
6.MAke it part of your next BBQ throw it in the fire.....
7.tie it behind a car that says just married and let it drag out..............
8.take it deep sea fishing see if makes a good lure.....
9. Next time you make cement put it in the fresh cementand it should make good rebar.....

10.. Name 101 more uses for it......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

N7YA

12-23-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote[/b] (W1LWT @ Dec. 23 2006,00:03)]ten things to do with a old key:

1. Add it to a boat mooring....
2. Throw it the air and pretent its a bird to shoot at.
3. Skim it accross the water to see how far it goes....
4. Set it on the train tracks and watch it crush.
5.Throw it off a bridge watch it hit the water...
6.MAke it part of your next BBQ throw it in the fire.....
7.tie it behind a car that says just married and let it drag out..............
8.take it deep sea fishing see if makes a good lure.....
9. Next time you make cement put it in the fresh cementand it should make good rebar.....

10.. Name 101 more uses for it......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
OR...you can sell them to me, i collect them AND i use them.

If someone gets so frustrated at what they THINK might happen to ham radio enough to dump their keys...please, let me know, i will buy them off of you!!

CW will be fine, ham radio will be fine...change has happened, now whats your next step? I know what MY next step is...keep on keeping on. I am a ham, proud to be a ham, Im not changing a thing...nobody will scare me away from the hobby...pro-code or no-code, it doesnt matter to me.

73...Adam, N7YA

N2MMM

12-23-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote[/b] (W1LWT @ Dec. 23 2006,00:03)]WELCOME all CBers ... GOOD BYE OLD FARTS with Brain farts with blockage..Good bye CW testing welcome All new CBers and new techs and be a real HAM enjoy the hobby as it should be #FOR ALL each and every person who whats it and enjoy the good aspects #of it. AND throw away the keys and pop up the keyboards and laptops and enjoy the new modern going hobby for it now it will grow as it should with new ideas and new blood.THS hobby #will grow now and expand as should be doing and not being held back by blind thinkers.

THUMBS up FCC and Ill do a jig.

ten things to do with a old key:

1. Add it to a boat mooring....
2. Throw it the air and pretent its a bird to shoot at.
3. Skim it accross the water to see how far it goes....
4. Set it on the train tracks and watch it crush.
5.Throw it off a bridge watch it hit the water...
6.MAke it part of your next BBQ throw it in the fire.....
7.tie it behind a car that says just married and let it drag out..............
8.take it deep sea fishing see if makes a good lure.....
9. Next time you make cement put it in the fresh cementand it should make good rebar.....

10.. Name 101 more uses for it......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
11. Connect it to a radio and use it to communicate with hams of good will.

kc2lsu

12-23-2006, 04:47 PM

Just to share, I walked into a VE testing session and took the general without studying anything, and I got 12 wrong, twice in a row. It felt like I was buying scratch off lottery tickets, at $14 a pop --- all that just to be able to work psk31 on 14.070. Then I remembered they have random practice tests on QRZ, and I'm finally starting to learn the right answers... mabey nect week I'll pass, after gambeling with another $14 dollars

W8JY

12-23-2006, 04:49 PM

I taught myself code when I was eleven years old by listening to my Hallicrafters S38 receiver. I could copy 25 wpm when I joined the Army at 18. I worked military CW nets at 35 wpm and enjoyed it!
I didn't get my ham ticket until later in life, and became a 20 wpm Extra.
CW is far from dead, and those of us that enjoy it will still use it. It has now been removed as a testing requirement only!
The CW requirement has deterred some hams from upgrading. Whether we like it or not, the FCC has spoken, and we all need to live with it.
We will have a large influx of new Generals on HF soon, and instead of griping about the lack of code testing, we all need to act as Elmers. I have taught one HF operating class so far, with more to come. I believe that most of the hams upgrading soon want to be good operators. All of us old farts need to welcome them and help them all we can. If some of the attitudes expressed in this forum carry over to the HF bands, we will make HF operating a miserable experience for everyone. Change is always traumatic for some people, but it needs to be accepted. Reading old material, I discovered the death of ham radio was predicted when spark gap was being replaced with interrupted carrier, when SSB started replacing AM, etc. etc. Ham radio has survived and grown through more major changes than this one, and will survive this also if we can adopt a civil attitude on the airways.

w5hag

12-23-2006, 04:52 PM

w1lwt..When you get through dancing, send me any of your cw gear or training courses you no longer need.
73
Hugh http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

KC8QNF

12-23-2006, 05:33 PM

I just finished writing a long post on this subject, but after reading most of the post’s it looks to me that its all been said. So I hit the delete button.

All I can add is… remember Y2K?? The world went into a panic leading up to it and when the clock struck midnight nothing happened. The next morning nothing happened! Yes there were some isolated problems.
I guess its human nature to fear change and the unknown.

My guess is, that a year from now you will turn your rigs on and hear the same thing you did today. Will there be some problems? Probably.
Will code die? No! Will ham radio die? No! Will ham radio change? Maybe. Trust me the world is not coming to an end, its just changing.

Remember, the good old days are today. Enjoy them.

Rich KC8QNF

K4JF

12-23-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Dec. 22 2006,07:33)]Quote[/b] (W1LWT @ Dec. 23 2006,00:03)]WELCOME all CBers ... GOOD BYE OLD FARTS with Brain farts with blockage..Good bye CW testing welcome All new CBers and new techs and be a real HAM enjoy the hobby as it should be #FOR ALL each and every person who whats it and enjoy the good aspects #of it. AND throw away the keys and pop up the keyboards and laptops and enjoy the new modern going hobby for it now it will grow as it should with new ideas and new blood.THS hobby #will grow now and expand as should be doing and not being held back by blind thinkers.

THUMBS up FCC and Ill do a jig.

ten things to do with a old key:

1. Add it to a boat mooring....
2. Throw it the air and pretent its a bird to shoot at.
3. Skim it accross the water to see how far it goes....
4. Set it on the train tracks and watch it crush.
5.Throw it off a bridge watch it hit the water...
6.MAke it part of your next BBQ throw it in the fire.....
7.tie it behind a car that says just married and let it drag out..............
8.take it deep sea fishing see if makes a good lure.....
9. Next time you make cement put it in the fresh cementand it should make good rebar.....

10.. Name 101 more uses for it......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
11. Connect it to a radio and use it to communicate with hams of good will.
12. Hook it up to a CPO (for those