Cliff Clavins on the air

[KL7FZ]

I made the mistake of turning on two meters here again tonight. The local Cliff Clavin who holds himself forth as a person who is an expert on everything was on again. He and another former 27 mhz convert were discussing wireless video, remote internet operated stations, and model aircraft. Incredible!! You have never heard such misinformation, misunderstanding, and outright stupidity any place else but commercial talk radio!
I have got to write some of this stuff down so I can remember it. It comes so fast that I am still rolling on the floor when the next zinger comes.
#It is so bad I don't whether to laugh or cry.
One comment about operation was "It is just like ham radio everyplace else, you know. You call CQ and they CQ you back"
HUH???
That was very mild compared to some of the wild things these guys put forth. Almost all of it incorrect or so distorted so as to be nothing near the truth. And they are on the air elmering new hams with this stuff!!
I have fought this and fought this, but if I turn my back, there they are again, giving the new guys all sorts of wrong info.
I especially love the guy who has NEVER operated HF giving sage advice about all phases of HF ops to the new hams. ALL OF IT WRONG! The new guys listening intently, Soaking it all up as gospel. I try to get to them as fast as I can can to mitigate the damage but these guys are there all the time holding court with this crap.
#Anyone else got this problem?
#What can you do about such nonsense?
#It is such a shame. New guys can really get screwed up by guys like this.
#Bordered by bozos.
#KL7FZ

[NN4RH]

I think every repeater has it's Know It All. I think it's required. My pet peeve is the guys who sound like this:

Well, uuuuhhhh good luck and very best 73s and uuhhh regards. I'm uuuuhhhh destinated at my uh Q-20 and uh and uh and uh gotta go QRT and Clear saying uuuuhhhh my uh seven uhh three and signing. This is uhhhh No Nookie For Radio Hams uuuuhhhh listening one round then pulling the 'ole plug. Bye uuuuuhhhh guys and uuuhhh see ya.

[al2i]

If I was a kid looking at ham radio today I would probably back away slowly, watchfully, and when I had put a safe distance between myself and the hamsters, I would run like the Dickens for my gaming console! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Anyone else got this problem?
What can you do about such nonsense?
It is such a shame. New guys can really get screwed up by guys like this.
Bordered by bozos.

I know of a couple.
One in particular holds forth with his sage HF experience, limited mostly to 75m and his CB days when he proudly ran a modified TS-520 on 11m. Of course this makes him an expert on the entire Kenwood line.

He's especially good at antenna design. As an example, I did not know that stainless steel wire was a better conductor than copper because it won't rust. Silly me, I must have been napping through all of those chemistry classes.

We can only hope to limit the damage and be prepared to fix their messes.

[n2nh]

"Cliff" didn't come up in the database. Maybe it's a nickname.

[ky5u]

Yep. When I lived in Florida there was a guy on the repeater named "Bob". There wasn't a conversation that did not deserve his interruption and comment. I finally met him in person and spoke with him. I told him the alternative was being embarrased on the air if he wasn't more careful butting into my conversations with others to "correct" someone with bogus info. But here is the kicker.... I don't claim to know everything about Amateur Radio, so about one in a hundred "Bob-isms" was actually good info. And I told him so. So I was not asking him to not participate with us, just to be aware of what some of the things he said sounded like.

The funny part was his wife was there when i spoke to him and she said, "Yeah, imagine trying to live with this know-it-all bas%$%d!" ROFL!

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Dec. 19 2006,05:49)]If I was a kid looking at ham radio today I would probably back away slowly, watchfully, and when I had put a safe distance between myself and the hamsters, I would run like the Dickens for my gaming console! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Sad, but in many instances, true. Amateur Radio was once (originally) meant to be a resource of trained, technically knowledgable people to be called upon for the public good. Somewhere along the way, the "technical" aspect has dissolved and disappeared, (for the most part.) Now we're merely "communicators." If that term even fits.

[KA4DPO]

As a resident know it all, I take credit for coining the term "communicator".

Please look for me on the air and I'll talk down to you as I bore you to sleep with my learned opinion on every subject.

[K7JEM]

This hobby seems to attract this type of people, we see it here on QRZ also. People give out info that they know absolutely nothing about, and try and pass it off as gospel.

True story:

One day back in the late 80's I was using our linked repeater system down here in AZ. At that time, it had about 13 mountaintop sites and covered a very large area. Some guy was on telling another person how the system worked, and was getting it all goofed up.

I broke in and explained how it actually operated, and this "Cliff" comes back and says, "No, it doesn't work that way". I said, "Yes, I am sure it does", and he replied, "No, you have it wrong".

Finally I said, "Look, I designed and built the system. All of these repeaters have gone through my hands before going to the mountaintops, I better know how it works."

"Well, then that may be correct"

Once people are convinced of something in their brain, it is almost impossible to make them believe otherwise. That is the problem with misinformation being presented here, it just gets stuck in too many people's head.

"I read on the internet......"

Joe

[N4ZYV]

Not knowing what I am talking about has never stopped me and never will. ;)

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Dec. 19 2006,02:18)]I made the mistake of turning on two meters here again tonight. The local Cliff Clavin who holds himself forth as a person who is an expert on everything was on again. He and another former 27 mhz convert were discussing wireless video, remote internet operated stations, and model aircraft. Incredible!! You have never heard such misinformation, misunderstanding, and outright stupidity any place else but commercial talk radio!
I have got to write some of this stuff down so I can remember it. It comes so fast that I am still rolling on the floor when the next zinger comes.
#It is so bad I don't whether to laugh or cry.
One comment about operation was "It is just like ham radio everyplace else, you know. You call CQ and they CQ you back"
HUH???
That was very mild compared to some of the wild things these guys put forth. Almost all of it incorrect or so distorted so as to be nothing near the truth. And they are on the air elmering new hams with this stuff!!
I have fought this and fought this, but if I turn my back, there they are again, giving the new guys all sorts of wrong info.
I especially love the guy who has NEVER operated HF giving sage advice about all phases of HF ops to the new hams. ALL OF IT WRONG! The new guys listening intently, Soaking it all up as gospel. I try to get to them as fast as I can can to mitigate the damage but these guys are there all the time holding court with this crap.
#Anyone else got this problem?
#What can you do about such nonsense?
#It is such a shame. New guys can really get screwed up by guys like this.
#Bordered by bozos.
#KL7FZ
I've never had a two meter radio, so I've managed to avoid a good deal of inanity.

[KA4DPO]

I've seen a lot of that on this forum also. A lot of responses on the question and answeres forum are just plain bravo sierra. The biggest problem with that is it steers people in the wrong direction and when you try to correct the problem the BS'er chimes in with how wrong you are and so on......

[k0cmh]

We have a new word on 2 meters in my local area: "arrivinated".

Also heard someone correcting someoneelse for using CW operating terms on 2 meter FM. And of course he ended his conversation with " . . . going QRT". I always wondered if it clicked with him what he had done.

Another good one I heard was: ". . . and get some of that PL59 coax. It works best for 2 meters".

[K0RGR]

Quite frankly, it's sad to hear this kind of thing on ham radio. It used to be found in abundance on the CB band, but hams were generally more knowledgable, and at least if they didn't know something, they would not pretend that they did.

You can't be in this hobby for very long without accumulating a certain amount of folklore. I know that I believe in things that just can't work the way the tales say they do, but I have tested them, and found that in at least some cases, they do work. Those are the worst kind of facts - things you know worked great for you, but are non-repeatable, probably because your theory of operation was bogus to start with.

Example: I was complaining one day about stray RFI in my shack, to a 2-letter call OT who swore up and down about the benefits of using a 'shielded ground'. This consists of a piece of RG-8/U with a .01 capacitor on each end, making the outer shield at a different electrical potential than the inner conductor. Well, I've found many times that replacing a ground strap with a 'shielded ground' will mysteriously eliminate the RFI. I'm sure I'm just pushing the hotspots around, or something, but for me, 'shielded grounds' work well.

[ac4ut]

I know this gentleman. In my particular instance he is a general class who has been studying to take the extra for 11 or so years.
He is sage to the universe with expertise on radios,antennas,cars,boat ,trains ,plane ,religion,politics and probably feminine hygiene products.
The good part is that most operators have him figured out and ignore his ramblings.
I'll bet if he read this post he would have no idea it was posted with him in mind.

[KL7FZ]

Boy! Last night I heard one of the brightest ones talk about tuning his ground wires.
I love it. Wonder how they get out?

As I am typing this I am hearing a ham say that "text messaging" is like Morse code.

And one of our most notorious former cbers, now ham, saying that his phone is ringing off the hook with buddies wanting to get their ham licenses now.
And he is one of our best Cliff Clavins.

ooooffh!

#KL7FZ

[ab8ma]

I heard once, and have wondered ever since, about the following: 80 (75) meter nighttime dx always improves the days that we have a full moon, because the reflected sunlight from the moon back to our nighttime skies provides just the right amount of ionization.

[k6az]

Gee, we must be fortunate here in the Richmond VA area. I haven't heard much of this on the 2m repeaters. We do have a group of bootleggers here on 2m, but they run simplex.

I've heard the same things described on 2m repeaters on 20 and 75, so I wouldn't write off 2m. I don't like to operate HF mobile, the only thing I have in the vehicle is 2m.

[N2RJ]

Our 2m repeaters are dead dead dead, except for a select few that always have people yakking.

[w8znx]

there are many people
that are full of BS

some you find down at the end of the VFW club room bar
some you find on 75 meters
some hang out on the local 2 meter machine

sry there is no escape

they will find you
they will search you out

to let you know
how they know everything
and need to tell you all about it

be it at a church picnic, corner bar
or your favorite ham band

at least Cliff was fun to listen to

there are some
who do such a good job
at shooting the bull
that you admire their abilities to bs

Mac

[n2nh]

Ah, Cliff Clavin. The maildude.

Damned I'm acting very Etruscan today. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[W5HTW]

There are MANY cloned Cliffies just waiting to join!

Ed

[ka8yit]

Quote[/b] (NN4RH @ Dec. 19 2006,01:05)]I think every repeater has it's Know It All. I think it's required. My pet peeve is the guys who sound like this:

I gree 100 % they are even on simplex at times but the repeaters are worse for it
[QUOTE] think every repeater has it's Know It All. I think it's required. My pet peeve is the guys who sound like this:

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Dec. 19 2006,14:27)]I heard once, and have wondered ever since, about the following: 80 (75) meter nighttime dx always improves the days that we have a full moon, because the reflected sunlight from the moon back to our nighttime skies provides just the right amount of ionization.
Bob,

This sounds like a plausable theory on the surface, but some how I think that whatever slight amount of radiation from the sun makes its way to the earth as a reflection from the moon is so greatly attentuated as to not be significant. I'm not offering a scientific comment. I simply have no idea. I'd be interested to hear from someone who has a technical answer to that theory. But some how it doesn't seem plausible to me when I really ponder it. The surface of the moon being round, I would think that only a small percentage of the radiation (that isn't absorbed and refracted by the moon's tiny atmosphere) would actually make it back to earth.

But interesting.

[kc4ylv]

Quote[/b] ]We have a new word on 2 meters in my local area: "arrivinated".

We used to use "destinated" out in 4-land.

I find it amusing that one or two technical inaccuracies have been posted in this thread. Careful, guys. ;)

[KA4DPO]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Dec. 19 2006,12:27)]I heard once, and have wondered ever since, about the following: 80 (75) meter nighttime dx always improves the days that we have a full moon, because the reflected sunlight from the moon back to our nighttime skies provides just the right amount of ionization.
Well now, let me explain this in a way that even you can understand. Ya see, the moon has a magnetic field which, when juxtaposed with the earths magnetic field set them electrons to spinning. The trapped electrons in the earths magnetic field begin to dance along a line where the moon and the earths magnetic fields link. This causes radio signals to bounce back to earth like they was shot from a cannon. That's also why we drink more during a full moon. The moons magnetic field interacts so to speak with the brainwaves that regulate..........Where was I, Oh yes, I need another beer. But you get the picture.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w2nsf]

Steve! You ever thought of confronting this guy like a real ham would? Instead of wasting our time here (sorry), why not just gently correct this yo-yo -- over the air, preferrably? That's what a real elmer would do, wouldn't it?
We're going to need to do more of this "direct confrontation" stuff, now that a new crop of HF'ers are about to descend on the bands.

[N4CYA]

Quote[/b] (NN4RH @ Dec. 18 2006,06:05)]I think every repeater has it's Know It All. I think it's required. My pet peeve is the guys who sound like this:

Well, uuuuhhhh good luck and very best 73s and uuhhh regards. I'm uuuuhhhh destinated at my uh Q-20 and uh and uh and uh gotta go QRT and Clear saying uuuuhhhh my uh seven uhh three and signing. This is uhhhh No Nookie For Radio Hams uuuuhhhh listening one round then pulling the 'ole plug. Bye uuuuuhhhh guys and uuuhhh see ya.
that sounds like a guy that live's down the road from when he gets on the local repeater and start's talking he always does this welllll uhhhh golly uhhh geee and so forth he never start's doing this whats so ever. He speaks about everything that happens 10 to 40 years ago

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (w2nsf @ Dec. 19 2006,17:17)]Steve! #You ever thought of confronting this guy like a real ham would? #Instead of wasting our time here (sorry), why not just gently correct this yo-yo -- over the air, preferrably? #That's what a real elmer would do, wouldn't it?
We're going to need to do more of this "direct confrontation" stuff, now that a new crop of HF'ers are about to descend on the bands.
Yep. Been there, done that. Dozens of times. Tried to explain theory and operation, history, background. You name it. I've tried it. But these guys came from 27 Mhz. They know how it works. Their way.
Never mind I work in the industry. Been a ham for 45 years. They know what they know and you are not going to change it.
It is a downright shame to hear what these guys put out as fact.
I should suggest they make a record. It would be a smash hit in the ham community. Funnier than anything Abbot and Costello did. But with a quasi-radio twist.
#I have tried so long and so much. They will be there again tonight with all that wonderful advice for any unsuspecting newcomer to absorb.
#I am serious. You HAVE to hear this stuff to believe it.
#A local fellow, a former, notorious 27 mhz denizen, now a GENERAL, (makes me cry) put forth sometime back, that the reason he bought his land where he lives was that there was a layer of Gold underlying the area and it was responsible for the great propagation he gets.
Now the same fellow, a few days later, was heard saying, during a period of poor propagation, that the reason he was experiencing such poor conditions was that there was a layer of Magnatite underlying the area which disrupts signals. The Magnatite was interacting with the aurora to cancel out signals.

Okay....... If that was not enough to make you wonder.. this same guy...was bragging about an earthquake detector he said he and another local there have invented. He said they discovered it while operating 27mhz (NO JOKE) and that it was so sensitve and better than ANYTHING the government had that the government, and the scientists at a major research #project, were absolutely amazed. So much so that the university insisted he come there and take an IQ test.
Where he, in his words, blew the top off the chart. And again in his words, was the smartest person they had ever tested.
Now this guy is serious, He expounds on radio, operations, and theory all the time.
#He operates a lot. And I just heard him say today that his phone was ringing off the hook with call from his buddies wanting to be hams now that the CW test has been dropped. Now you have got to know who these buddies are. And if they are like him, what are you going to get when they get a ham license?
#This is just one of quite a number of similiar ops around here. Tell me again, how ham radio has not been dumbed down in the last couple of decades.
Go ahead. I dare you.
None of these bozos would be hams today if we had kept up our standards of testing. 13 wpm for Generals and no question pool with answers would have effectively kept them out.
And rightfully so.
I am just one op that has fought this type of garbage for years. But the influx of these and soon be deluge of the same type is just too much for me. My finger just won't plug the dike anymore.
For all the no-code types that have wanted HF for so long, this will be a pyrrhic victory at best.
#What they get will not be what they thought they were getting. The mere fact they are there will mean it is something else than what they thought it would be. Something much less.

#While writing this I had a thought. You may have done it for me OM. I am going to collect the saying by these guys and publish it as a comedy book. I'll make mint!!!


Thanks for the idea!!
KL7FZ

[KC0NBW]

just think about what it is like for those of us that really do know everything to have to listen to the guys that only think they know everything http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

a bit of humour there, put your zippos back in your pockets http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Dec. 19 2006,22:54)]Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Dec. 19 2006,14:27)]I heard once, and have wondered ever since, about the following: 80 (75) meter nighttime dx always improves the days that we have a full moon, because the reflected sunlight from the moon back to our nighttime skies provides just the right amount of ionization.
Bob,

# This sounds like a plausable theory on the surface, but some how I think that whatever slight amount of radiation from the sun makes its way to the earth as a reflection from the moon is so greatly attentuated as to not be significant. I'm not offering a scientific comment. I simply have no idea. I'd be interested to hear from someone who has a technical answer to that theory. But some how it doesn't seem plausible to me when I really ponder it. The surface of the moon being round, I would think that only a small percentage of the radiation (that isn't absorbed and refracted by the moon's tiny atmosphere) would actually make it back to earth.

#But interesting.
Heath,

All seriousness aside,

The full moon probably just makes it easier to see while aiming the EME antenna. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (ab8ma @ Dec. 19 2006,11:27)]I heard once, and have wondered ever since, about the following: 80 (75) meter nighttime dx always improves the days that we have a full moon, because the reflected sunlight from the moon back to our nighttime skies provides just the right amount of ionization.
I think you are simply hearing more Ops up and howling at the moon. Why do you think they call it "moonshine"?

[KG6YTZ]

Quote[/b] (k0cmh @ Dec. 19 2006,09:20)]And of course he ended his conversation with " . . . #going QRT".
That's still better than a local semi-newbie here who routinely says he's "going 73."

Quote[/b] ]Another good one I heard was: ". . . and get some of that PL59 coax.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NN4RH]

One of our local repeaters has a Know It All on all the time.

Thing is ... he really DOES know-it-all !

[N9FE]

Yes there is alot of bull on the repeaters, simplex as well, the worst part is this what grandma and the general public hear on there scanners, Some of the comments heard on these freqency's it makes you wonder how in the heck did they ever get a licence in first place, i know the tests are easyer now, but my god man it is a joke..N9FE

[KD6NIG]

It shouldn't be shocking though. You find them in every walk of life.

-People who "soup up cars". This is a really good one, especially those who soup up imports. When you hear a guy telling you that putting some kind of chrome exhaust tip on his tailpipes gave him 5 extra horsepower, you just gotta wonder....

-People who fix computers, or want to give advice. You can present a problem and get 10 different answers from so called experts.

-Try asking your buddies for love advice. You'll get stuff off the wall.

So, it not unusual to see these guys on repeaters. They come from all walks of life.

My all time favorite is still the guy that told me to ONLY use stainless steel whips, and if I polished them (and kept them polished) I would be able to hear people much further away, and I would get the equivelant of double the wattage out.

He said it was something in the wax that did it.

I'll admit that sometimes I have, purposely, tossed out a question into a group just to see what kind of answers I'll get, even though I already know the answer. Hilarity ensues. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Dec. 20 2006,08:06)]I'll admit that sometimes I have, purposely, tossed out a question into a group just to see what kind of answers I'll get, even though I already know the answer. #Hilarity ensues. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
there was, a now SK op
would listen to some of these guys
and ask simple questions

right out of Chapter 2 Electrical Laws and Circuits
ARRL The Radio Amateur's Handbook

some of us would be rolling on the floor
laughing
hearing these guys trying to explaine
something as simple as resistance
in series and resistance in parallel

hate to say it but the 13 wpm test did
not keep out ops
that were dumb as a stump

there is a op here in Detroit
that about 15 years ago
passed the 20 wpm extra

who realy does not know how Ohms law works

lets face it
any dunce can learn morse code
its just a matter of putting in the time

and if you keep taking the writen test

over and over and over and over and over

sooner or later you will guess the right way
and pass the test

Mac

[WA7KKP]

I learned years ago that you can rate a person's 'intellegence' inversely proportional to how much he brags about it.

And then there's this bromide:

Those of you who think they know it all, are very distressing . . . to us who do.

Gary WA7KKP

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (WA7KKP @ Dec. 20 2006,15:10)]Those of you who think they know it all, are very distressing . . . to us who do.

Gary WA7KKP
i think i said that yesterday at 18.03 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KA4DPO]

Mac, did you know if you break Ohms Law you can go to jail?

[KG6YTZ]

Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Dec. 20 2006,16:36)]Mac, did you know if you break Ohms Law you can go to jail?
Yep. And resistance is futile.

[w4rlr]

Quote[/b] (NN4RH @ Dec. 20 2006,06:21)]One of our local repeaters has a Know It All on all the time.

Thing is ... he really DOES know-it-all !
"Those of you who think you know everything are extremely annoying to those of us who do."

I saw that on a sign once.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

What I like are the "know it all" types.
Take some really odd radio, like the old Azdens, where you have to punch in MHz, 2 digits, KHz, 2 digits, step, 2 digits, just to do a 2 meter freq.
Now, ask Mr. Super Hamster® to tune in some local repeater.
Next, and old SINCGARS radio, and you forgot the manoual, but it should be easy to QSY, after all it is just a backpack, right?
You do want that repeater offset and be sure to change tone from 150 Hz please.
Others are welcome to think of a challange or 2.

I am at the point where I am learning more and more about less and less.
Soon I will know everything about nothing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc7mrq]

Quote[/b] ]You do want that repeater offset and be sure to change tone from 150 Hz please.


Don't you just take off the SINCGAR radio cover to allow the reset switch activate and default the radio back to factory settings? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


Corey

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Dec. 21 2006,06:48)]Hello.

What I like are the "know it all" types.
Take some really odd radio, like the old Azdens, where you have to punch in MHz, 2 digits, KHz, 2 digits, step, 2 digits, just to do a 2 meter freq.
Now, ask Mr. Super Hamster® to tune in some local repeater.
Next, and old SINCGARS radio, and you forgot the manoual, but it should be easy to QSY, after all it is just a backpack, right?
You do want that repeater offset and be sure to change tone from 150 Hz please.
Others are welcome to think of a challange or 2.

I am at the point where I am learning more and more about less and less.
Soon I will know everything about nothing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
that's how experts come to be.

an expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until you get to the ultimate expert who can be described as knowing absolutely everything about nothing.

or is it absolutely nothing about everything #? # #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[K0CRX]

Quote[/b] (KG6YTZ @ Dec. 20 2006,22:13)]Quote[/b] (KA4DPO @ Dec. 20 2006,16:36)]Mac, did you know if you break Ohms Law you can go to jail?
Yep. And resistance is futile.
That is absolutely hilarious and completely explains why what works on paper usually doesn't work in practice. Resistance is futile.

[w7lpn]

Some people are just a little excited and overly enthusiastic about what they believe they've learned. I tinker with antenna designs all the time. As soon as I finish one, I'm off on another one. I don't KNOW anything. Sometimes what I'm doing works, sometimes it seems to work very well, and most of the time I learn what I left out, along the way. I don't ask a lot of questions because I've had too many hams tell me, "That won't work", then I make it work. I'm not an engineer, I'm a nurse. That proves that I can be taught, but I'm a tinkerer at heart so I don't want to learn what you read, or what you already know, because this stuff is new and fun to me, and if I build it the way someone else tells me, then it's their idea, not mine. I've put a gama stub on my metal roof and used my roof as an antenna, I've built several types of vertical dipoles and collinears, and am not bored yet. I hope I never leave anyone with the impression that my tinkering is meant to portray anything but a true curiosity & love for this hobby. Of course if we don't really know someone very well, we might assume something about them. They're probably just a little excited to be part of such a cool hobby and aren't as worried about sounding like our favorite mail-man from Cheers.:blush: I remember my first attempt to talk on the repeater. HAR! "CQ CQ CQ", then some nice ol' Elmer gently gave me some friendly advice so as not to sound too goofy to every ham in town. It's een fun so far!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KL7FZ]

After trying DOZENS of times to explain "S" meters in depth to the locals, I heard one of our locals mentoring a newbie with the information that every 500 Watts makes a 3 "S" unit increase.
Oh, he also mentioned he has some Palomar "amateur" mobile amps available.

And from another, a recently heard signal report "S-18".

#Yep.
# Gone to heck ain't it?


# KL7FZ

[KD6NIG]

I heard a guy (think it was a truck driver) on 17 yesterday saying that he was 200 over S9 according to his meter.

When asked how high the meter went, he said "up to 500 over s9."

The other guys comment "well, I'll just have to get something big enough to peg that meter of yours."

I guess we can't say they aren't setting any goals in life, I suppose.

But I'm wondering where the heck you get such a meter? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Dec. 19 2006,18:02)]Quote[/b] (w2nsf @ Dec. 19 2006,17:17)]Steve! #You ever thought of confronting this guy like a real ham would? #Instead of wasting our time here (sorry), why not just gently correct this yo-yo -- over the air, preferrably? #That's what a real elmer would do, wouldn't it?
We're going to need to do more of this "direct confrontation" stuff, now that a new crop of HF'ers are about to descend on the bands.
Yep. Been there, done that. Dozens of times. Tried to explain theory and operation, history, background. You name it. I've tried it. But these guys came from 27 Mhz. They know how it works. Their way.
Never mind I work in the industry. Been a ham for 45 years. They know what they know and you are not going to change it.
It is a downright shame to hear what these guys put out as fact.
I should suggest they make a record. It would be a smash hit in the ham community. Funnier than anything Abbot and Costello did. But with a quasi-radio twist.
#I have tried so long and so much. They will be there again tonight with all that wonderful advice for any unsuspecting newcomer to absorb.
#I am serious. You HAVE to hear this stuff to believe it.
#A local fellow, a former, notorious 27 mhz denizen, now a GENERAL, (makes me cry) put forth sometime back, that the reason he bought his land where he lives was that there was a layer of Gold underlying the area and it was responsible for the great propagation he gets.
Now the same fellow, a few days later, was heard saying, during a period of poor propagation, that the reason he was experiencing such poor conditions was that there was a layer of Magnatite underlying the area which disrupts signals. The Magnatite was interacting with the aurora to cancel out signals.

Okay....... If that was not enough to make you wonder.. this same guy...was bragging about an earthquake detector he said he and another local there have invented. He said they discovered it while operating 27mhz (NO JOKE) and that it was so sensitve and better than ANYTHING the government had that the government, and the scientists at a major research #project, were absolutely amazed. So much so that the university insisted he come there and take an IQ test.
Where he, in his words, blew the top off the chart. And again in his words, was the smartest person they had ever tested.
Now this guy is serious, He expounds on radio, operations, and theory all the time.
#He operates a lot. And I just heard him say today that his phone was ringing off the hook with call from his buddies wanting to be hams now that the CW test has been dropped. Now you have got to know who these buddies are. And if they are like him, what are you going to get when they get a ham license?
#This is just one of quite a number of similiar ops around here. Tell me again, how ham radio has not been dumbed down in the last couple of decades.
Go ahead. I dare you.
None of these bozos would be hams today if we had kept up our standards of testing. 13 wpm for Generals and no question pool with answers would have effectively kept them out.
And rightfully so.
I am just one op that has fought this type of garbage for years. But the influx of these and soon be deluge of the same type is just too much for me. My finger just won't plug the dike anymore.
For all the no-code types that have wanted HF for so long, this will be a pyrrhic victory at best.
#What they get will not be what they thought they were getting. The mere fact they are there will mean it is something else than what they thought it would be. Something much less.

#While writing this I had a thought. You may have done it for me OM. I am going to collect the saying by these guys and publish it as a comedy book. I'll make mint!!!


Thanks for the idea!!
KL7FZ
Exactly. I went around and around with an ex-CB'er who swore that "thicker" wires on his loop would give him a bigger signal. I tried in vain to tell him other wise as did others in the area. Nothing doing, it was "thicker" wires and a "big heater" is all he had on his mind. I am so glad that there will be more of this now. What an asset to all of us.

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 31 2006,20:19)]Exactly. I went around and around with an ex-CB'er who swore that "thicker" wires on his loop would give him a bigger signal. I tried in vain to tell him other wise as did others in the area. Nothing doing, it was "thicker" wires and a "big heater" is all he had on his mind. I am so glad that there will be more of this now. What an asset to all of us.
Awww... does that mean my 24 gauge wires hung out there won't do the trick?

Maybe I should try to hang some double 0 gauge wire between a couple of trees.

Nothing like 400 lbs of wire in the air to bend over some pine trees.

(yes, I know I'll likely melt some wire if I try 100 watts on 24 gauge wire)

[ka5piu]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Dec. 29 2006,11:04)]I heard a guy (think it was a truck driver) on 17 yesterday saying that he was 200 over S9 according to his meter.

When asked how high the meter went, he said "up to 500 over s9."

The other guys comment "well, I'll just have to get something big enough to peg that meter of yours."

I guess we can't say they aren't setting any goals in life, I suppose.

But I'm wondering where the heck you get such a meter? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Hello.

Digital CB "S" meters have to "S9" as normal.
Above that it reads "in the red" as + whatever the count is.
So, just to see what would happen, I hooked up a 100 milliwatt walkie talkie directly up to just such a meter.
This is "S9+500", perhaps the limit of the thing.
Totally useless CB toy.
As I am around the CB world quite a bit I have a chance to pick up the latest and greatest, most is junk, some, like the cherokee ah27/zodiac P-2000 CB talkie are cool.
This is an FCC/CEPT unit that can do 200 channels, that includes 28.3MHz to 28.5MHz, without ever pulling the covers.
Not so popular with the CB crowd as it does not pump out a Kw at 30KHz bandwidth.
But it does do AM and FM and is quite small and cheap.

[KC0OFZ]

Quote[/b] (KE4UWL @ Dec. 31 2006,21:51)]Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Dec. 31 2006,20:19)]Exactly. #I went around and around with an ex-CB'er who swore that "thicker" wires on his loop would give him a bigger signal. #I tried in vain to tell him other wise as did others in the area. #Nothing doing, it was "thicker" wires and a "big heater" is all he had on his mind. #I am so glad that there will be more of this now. #What an asset to all of us.
Awww... does that mean my 24 gauge wires hung out there won't do the trick?

Maybe I should try to hang some double 0 gauge wire between a couple of trees.

Nothing like 400 lbs of wire in the air to bend over some pine trees.

(yes, I know I'll likely melt some wire if I try 100 watts on 24 gauge wire)
At least it sounds like you understand that "thicker" wires will most likely result in an increase in resonant bandwidth (if correctly constructed). BTW, this guy uses trees to support his loop (as most so) so I have toyed with the idea of telling him 3" copper tube gives maximum signal. Now that would make quite a sight!

[ka8yit]

Well we have one of them here on 2 meters they have not been lic. long but know everything about everything if you dont agree with him you are wrong or stupid you have one of them everywhere you go

[AB8RU]

Which reminds me of the Guy who said my radio sounded bad I switched to NBFM then he said it was an improvement, I figgured it was his radio was a peice of crap. #always the Golden Screwdriver Technician, solved 2 other problems , One remove all equiptment , and two put that car up for sale.

I kinda like the CTCSS / Coded Squech feature.

I would ask them if they can define a Extra Class Question like what is a Smith Chart or how to Neutralize a XMTR ? #I usually come up with a Technical Question that they go away, I have these people who come in with an Attitude and then I drop the Big One that they cannot answer, then I ask them ever took calculus ?

I have a real fun Question every time it really racks their brain every time ! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # LOL!

[kn4ds]

Quote[/b] (KC0OFZ @ Jan. 01 2007,19:32)]At least it sounds like you understand that "thicker" wires will most likely result in an increase in resonant bandwidth (if correctly constructed). BTW, this guy uses trees to support his loop (as most so) so I have toyed with the idea of telling him 3" copper tube gives maximum signal. Now that would make quite a sight!
The key is properly constructed.... I do recognize that a larger wire will result in wider bandwidth.

It might be fun to suggest the guy hang some 6 inch copper pipe in the trees... his neighbors will love him (if they don't already).

heh... I can't even imagine that amount of copper in the air. But it would make one hell of a dipole.

[AC7VX]

We've had our share of "Cliffs" around here in the last five years. Most people got tired of them blathering on about things they knew nothing of, or were just plain lying about. The unfortunate aspect of this is, it drove just about everyone off the 2m repeaters to where it's dead just about all of the time. The ironic part of it all is the "Cliffs" have moved out of the area and yet the disruptions they caused are still affecting us.
I found the comment of K7JEM interesting in that our hobby does attract a certain type of "know it all". However, I'm involved in a Scottish music band and we get our share of "know it alls" who, like the ones in Ham radio, know nothing.

[KG6YTZ]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Jan. 01 2007,10:50)]the cherokee ah27/zodiac P-2000 CB talkie are cool.
This is an FCC/CEPT unit that can do 200 channels, that includes 28.3MHz to 28.5MHz, without ever pulling the covers.
28.3 to 28.5? Dang... Too bad it doesn't do SSB.

[N9FE]

Quote[/b] (ka8yit @ Jan. 01 2007,17:35)]Well we have one of them here on 2 meters they have not been lic. long but know everything about everything if you dont agree with him you are wrong or stupid you have one of them everywhere you go
Oh you bet we have one here too, he has worked the world on two meter fm, he has an answer for every question, the best part is he makes up the answers as he go's along, and tells so many story's, he actually belives his own lie's.. N9FE

[KC0NBW]

Quote[/b] (AC7VX @ Jan. 01 2007,21:12)]#
#I found the comment of K7JEM interesting in that our hobby does attract a certain type of "know it all". However, I'm involved in a Scottish music band and we get our share of "know it alls" who, like the ones in Ham radio, know nothing.
i am a piper myself, although i have not played for several years.

i know quite a few active pipers and they claim there is
no group in the world as unstable as a bagpipe band . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kg6top]

Well, it's a little known fact that not too many people know... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ky5u]

Heaven help us, we had a band opening on 2M here this AM. Notice how everyone is compelled to say something every time they hear a strange ID? One foreign repeater uses time announcements and one guy locally reported every PTT he did where he got the recording back. Clearly there were multiple repeaters on the frequency pair but a discussion ensued about WHICH single repeater everyone must be hearing. Someone said they heard a "4" call so it must be in Alabama.

Yesterday the repeater was down. I put my mobile on "reverse" so I was using the repeater frequency pair to TX/RX and talked to one of the regulars for a few minutes direct. You should have heard the "announcements" being made on the mobile frequency pair (with no repeater nobody could hear them) about the repeater being down.

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Jan. 01 2007,11:50)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Dec. 29 2006,11:04)]I heard a guy (think it was a truck driver) on 17 yesterday saying that he was 200 over S9 according to his meter.

When asked how high the meter went, he said "up to 500 over s9."

The other guys comment "well, I'll just have to get something big enough to peg that meter of yours."

I guess we can't say they aren't setting any goals in life, I suppose.

But I'm wondering where the heck you get such a meter? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Hello.

Digital CB "S" meters have to "S9" as normal.
Above that it reads "in the red" as + whatever the count is.
So, just to see what would happen, I hooked up a 100 milliwatt walkie talkie directly up to just such a meter.
This is "S9+500", perhaps the limit of the thing.
Totally useless CB toy.
As I am around the CB world quite a bit I have a chance to pick up the latest and greatest, most is junk, some, like the cherokee ah27/zodiac P-2000 CB talkie are cool.
This is an FCC/CEPT unit that can do 200 channels, that includes 28.3MHz to 28.5MHz, without ever pulling the covers.
Not so popular with the CB crowd as it does not pump out a Kw at 30KHz bandwidth.
But it does do AM and FM and is quite small and cheap.
Oh, I know, the guy was definetely BSing himself a storm.

My old Rat Shack CB that I bought back in 92 doesn't even have a meter. Just a green LED for recieve and a red one for transmit, and the channel number. It doesn't transmit anymore, thankfully.

But its good to turn on sometimes just to let it glow, and sometimes if you turn the knob to the right more, you hear some odd stuff.

Or funny stuff like the S-Meter thing. I could see someone building one just for their ego. Of course, it would sit at S-9 with no signal-have to inflate that ego by making the meter lie!

[ka0gkt]

Well ya see, Norm, it's like this...A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.


--Cliff Clavin

[KG6YTZ]

That's the real problem in many cases - sometimes the nonsense almost makes perfect sense if you examine it from an odd angle! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif