Winter Driving Hint

[w8idb]

I discovered this about 50 years ago when I first began driving. And since we are just getting into some snowy weather, at least in the northern areas, thought I'd post it here.

When attempting to stop on snow or icy roads, we all know what happens when we brake too hard. We start sliding and who knows where the car will end up.

This will work with FWD, RWD, 4WD, ABS brakes or not. Simply shift to neutral before you apply the brakes, or on the stick shift vehicle, simply push in the clutch. The idea is to have NO wheels driving, and four wheels braking. This assumes that we are driving at a prudent speed for the conditions to begin with.

This also works when turning from the main drag onto a side street. You won't slide up against the opposite curb.

Try this out in an empty parking lot after the next snowfall and see how nice it works. Try not to shift past neutral into reverse. That creats a whole 'nuther problem.

Lastly, when driving in a rain storm, do not use your cruise control, with a FWD vehicle. That can create another set of problems causing your vehicle to go out of control.

Wishing everyone a safe winter driving experience.

[kc7jty]

The thing I really love about winter driving is that it puts a damper on all the airheads who absolutely must accelerate very hard, and move at at least the speed limit to within 50 feet of the (has already been for a while) red light.

Too bad many of them have to smash into other drivers a few times (or end up in the ditch) before they wise up.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

Very good advice.
Yes, a lot of accidents happen with people who are not watching out, and the cellphone just adds to the mess.

[KA9VQF]

We just had a major ‘winter weather event’ here in northwest Illinois. {why they can’t just say we had a big snow storm is beyond me}

The best advice I can give anyone when confronted with this type of weather event is “STAY HOME”.

When the state patrol says the roads are not good and if you don’t have to travel don’t then DON’T.

Its really simple if you try.

I felt I had to drive home rather than stay at work until the storm,…sorry major winter weather event was over and the road crews had a chance to tackle the roads so I did.

In the 25 miles I counted 15 cars in the ditch. I have a lot of experience driving in snow from when I lived in northwest Wisconsin so I felt that the measly 3 or 4 inches of accumulation was not a real challenge.

Evidently so did the people who were in the ditch. Never over drive your experience. By that I mean if you don’t have the experience to drive in crap like that don’t.

You may ask “Well, how do I get the experience if I don’t?” that is a good question and the answer is to get the experience in small doses.

It would be best for me if you do this when I’m not on the road.

[K8MHZ]

Bad advice.

I am now in my 32nd year of driving through Michigan winters and have seen people do what you are suggesting. #If it works you need to have your brakes checked.

If your brakes are adjusted properly shifting into neutral won't make a difference. #Actually if you have front wheel drive you won't notice any difference unless the fronts are dangerously bad. #The trick comes from people with bad rear brakes and rear wheel drive cars that would have only the front brakes working and thus the rear wheels would continue to push.

The maneuver is an additional distraction for people that already have a hard time in the winter.

If you have a real wheel drive car get your rear brakes in proper working order. #If you have a front wheel drive car you are probably just adding an unnecessary distraction. #If your brakes area in proper working order and are properly adjusted all four wheels will stop the car.

I have seen people use this stupid maneuver and accidentally hit Reverse and smash into the car behind them. #I also wonder if the tranny is designed to be taken out of Drive while the wheels are still in motion. #They certainly aren't too keen on being put into Reverse while moving forward.

Also, especially you older folks, take your darned foot off the brake when you drive. The brakes get hot and will grab instead of coming on as designed. Also, take your foot off the accelerator when you brake. A good way to insure this is done is to not use your left foot to brake with. The only pedals your left foot should ever touch are the clutch and the emergency brake pedal. (Pet peeve: driving behind someone that has their brake lights come on and off for no apparent reason while they are going straight down the road)

Most importantly, don't rush the corners and be prepared for several car lengths of ice. #Also, *ease* onto the brakes and allow for the extra reaction time. #Be prepared to have to back off if they lock up.

ABS, especially the Teves brand, are great in the winter once you get used to them.

Another thing to remember, no matter how good your brakes are they aren't squat in the winter with crappy tires. #New radials negate the need for snow tires but are many times better with sufficient traction. #True even on the worst ice, actually I should say especially on the worst ice.

We just got our first snow last night. #About 6 inches of wet 'snowball grade' snow. #Makes for a fun drive. #Front wheel drive with ABS makes winter driving much safer.

[WB2WIK]

I grew up driving in 24" of partly cloudy all the time.

Living in Southern CA now, when we go on ski trips my friends always ask me to drive because they stink in the snow and ice, and I've never been stuck.

My method of keeping control is to minimize use of brakes, always. Wheels/tires that are powered have much more traction than ones that are braked. I power around curves, even in the snow, and more so on the ice.

The most slippery snow is snow that's very close to freezing temperature. Warmer is obviously melting or melted, and colder doesn't start to ice when you warm it slightly with tire friction. I've always found it much easier to drive in extremely cold WX (way below freezing) on snow-covered roads than in freezing WX close to 32F.

I've owned 19 cars in the 28 years I've been driving, and have rented hundreds, including in winter for snow driving, and formed a strong feeling that I can control a RWD (rear wheel drive) vehicle better in snow than FWD. My older RWD Volvo is the best car on snow I've ever owned and it's the one I'll always take on mountain ski trips when the WX is truly awful. As I pass the hundreds of stuck and stranded FWD vehicles on the road, I honk. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2WIK/6

[WF7A]

The biggest problem with driving in/on snow and ice is that people have a flagrant disregard, disrespect, or complete ignorance of basic Newtonian physics.

A couple of non-braking-related hints for winter:

Take a rag, saturate it with silicone spray, then work it into the rubber doorframe and trunk lid gaskets, and the windshield wiper blades--it'll keep the doors/trunk lid from sticking and help keep the wiper blades lubricated so ice won't stick so readily to them.

If you have a manual transmission, leave the car in gear when it's parked and do _not_ use the parking brake; this'll prevent the parking brakes shoes and cable from hanging up if ice should form on them. (Of course, if you're parked on a steep incline it's best to use the parking brake, too.)

I've been told that to get a little extra, temporary traction from your tires that if you rub Chlorox on the tires, it'll help them grab better. (I don't know how well chlorine and rubber get along so I haven't tried this.)

[KA9VQF]

Quote[/b] ]
{from WF7A}
I've been told that to get a little extra, temporary traction from your tires that if you rub Chlorox on the tires, it'll help them grab better. (I don't know how well chlorine and rubber get along so I haven't tried this.)

This works petty well at the dragstrip but ain't worth a hoot on the snow.

[K8MHZ]

RWD vs. FWD

For aggressive driving RWD is the better choice as evidenced by the preference of policemen. #They can be driven out of a slide much easier than a FWD vehicle. #For normal driving it depends on what your reflexes are used to as in a panic what is known as 'muscle memory' kicks in. #Driving a FWD vehicle aggressively requires not only a different strategy but one that must instantly change based upon the situation of the vehicle. #What keeps a FWD vehicle on the road under full traction changes in an instant once the wheels break loose and just how that changes depends on whether or not the front wheels are sliding or not. #

It is possible to broadslide a FWD vehicle around a corner and stay in control but it is tricky as it takes far more precise throttle and braking control. #A FWD car will stay stuck to the road in slippery conditions better than a RWD car but a RWD car is easier to control when sliding as there is no torque steer to contend with. #FWD cars have better traction to the drive wheels due to the weight of the engine being over the top of them.

When I first started driving FWD cars I preferred the RWDs because I was used to driving them and broadsliding around corners with no problem. #Once I got used to FWDs they became my choice for safe driving but are more work than fun for hot rodding around corners.

The best RWDs seem to be wagons as their more weighty in the rear end and usually have cargo adding to that. #The worst for some reason are full size vans and 2WD Astro Vans. #Chevy Camaros are useless in the snow. #I have an '83 Z-28 that is a terror to drive in the winter.

Drive defensively and cautiously. #Pay attention to the road and not the cell phone. #Don't rubber neck while driving past an accident scene. #(That caused two accidents within 2 miles of my home yesterday). #And don't make sudden moves on ice or you will discover first hand the law of momentum.

[KD6NIG]

I think the biggest suggestion is one that is often ignored:

Slow the %^%&^%&^%&* down!

I love seeing these people who, although the ads disclaim in ant lettering "PROFESSIONAL DRIVER-CLOSED COURSE" that think the letters 4WD means "I can go 55 on any surface."

If people wouldn't insist on going faster than 10mph on ice, we'd all be better off. If you feel the car starting to move around a bit, SLOW THE HECK DOWN.

Many a time I drove around when I lived in the mountians in my Ford Escort, sans chains, no problem. Many a car that whizzed by me I would see in the ditch a few miles later.

WIK's got it right. But part of the trick of not using brakes is going at a safe enough speed that you're propelling, and if you have to stop, you won't be going fast enough that you'll lock them up and have enough momentum to hit something hard.

Knocking off 15 MPH or so from 'dry conditions' works in the rain. Snow, ice and similar is a totally different animal.

Besides, if you slow down, and you DO hit something, the blow will be much less and the damage much less. It also allows you time to dodge the other people ignoring that advice http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K2WH]

Been doing the neutral thingy for many years and works great.

K2WH

[KA9VQF]

Quote[/b] ]k8mhz sez:

Chevy Camaros are useless in the snow. I have an '83 Z-28 that is a terror to drive in the winter.


I drove a ‘83 Camaro from the time it was new until I sold it in 2003. It had the small V6 and an automatic transmission. It did just fine in the snow. I did put snow tires on it in the winter but I don’t even own a set of tire chains anymore. Haven’t for years.

I personally think that to many people have more horsepower than brains especially when it comes to muscle cars and 4X4’s.

I have run many miles in what a lot of people might consider underpowered vehicles. I get there, maybe a bit slower than they do but I do get there.

I had a ’47 willies jeep when I lived in Wisconsin. It had a really small four cylinder flathead engine in it and only three forward speeds. I pushed piles of snow with it and the snow plow I mounted on it that were literally bigger than a house.

I did it slow, not at 55.

I went places that you might have thought twice about trying to walk or maybe take a horse into. Sure I got stuck sometimes but that is what the electric winch on the front was for.

You simply couldn’t ‘power’ your way out if you got stuck so you had to try not to get stuck in the first place. When you were stuck it may take some time to get out but I was almost always by myself and had to figure out how to do it myself.

I agree with whoever said the problem with a lot of people with all wheel drive vehicles is they really think they can go at least 55 on any surface. It is really weird that so many don’t seem to learn once they leave the highway. Soon as they get out and back on the road most of them take off like a bat do it again.

I do realize that 4 wheel drive technology has taken a few leaps since ‘47 and that a lot of them have limited slip differentials these days and yes, they do give you the impression that you have good traction, right up to the time you go off into that corn field.

It seems that once you get one of these newer 4X4’s stuck it takes at least two more to get it out.

I’ve driven my old jeep through mud that was up to the floor pan. Maybe I was lucky because I didn’t get stuck, but I’ve found newer buggies stuck in my tracks on my way out a few times. They try to blast their way out and just dig deeper.

Made it hard to get around them.

[W0MT]

I seem to remember that in some states it is illegal to shift into neutral while the vehicle is in motion. Anyone else remember this?

[WF7A]

California is one, I believe. I could never figure out why since it saves fuel when coasting to a stop.

[KD6NIG]

I think the law actually reads that it is illegal to shift into neutral while descending a grade, not coasting to a stop.

"I could be wrong..."

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ Dec. 01 2006,17:11)]I think the law actually reads that it is illegal to shift into neutral while descending a grade, not coasting to a stop.

"I could be wrong..."
I usually go to the lowest gear on a hill.. shift the other way.

[KD6NIG]

Yeah, they were asking about a California Law http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Dec. 01 2006,15:06)]Been doing the neutral thingy for many years and works great.

K2WH
Yeah, I am amazed that you and IDT have lived long enough to give this "driving tip."

Shifting the transmission into neutral causes LOSS OF CONTROL of a vehicle in ANY condition.

I have done my share of driving on ice and snow including a semi. You would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER find me shifting any vehicle of any size, whether it's in ice, snow, rain, or dry payment, into neutral to stop.I want as much CONTROL over my vehicle as I can get.

I think this is a VERY DANGEROUS driving practice and VERY BAD ADVICE.

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ Dec. 01 2006,18:45)]Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Dec. 01 2006,15:06)]Been doing the neutral thingy for many years and works great.

K2WH
Yeah, I am amazed that you and IDT have lived long enough to give this "driving tip."

Shifting the transmission into neutral causes LOSS OF CONTROL of a vehicle in ANY condition.

I have done my share of driving on ice and snow including a semi. You would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER find me shifting any vehicle of any size, whether it's in ice, snow, rain, or dry payment, into neutral to stop.I want as much CONTROL over my vehicle as I can get.

I think this is a VERY DANGEROUS driving practice and VERY BAD ADVICE.
I don't know about "very," but I agree with KLB.

Driven wheels have more traction than undriven wheels.

Best way to break out of a skid is to apply power to the wheels that are skidding.

Not only did I learn to drive in the snow, but I took the $1495 Skip Barber course...wow, that was cool. Teaches you to make a 180 in about two car lengths at 100 mph, if you know how. Unfortunately, cannot be done with FWD or AWD, but it's not difficult with RWD and a good emergency brake. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2WIK/6

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 01 2006,18:12)]Not only did I learn to drive in the snow, but I took the $1495 Skip Barber course...wow, that was cool. Teaches you to make a 180 in about two car lengths at 100 mph, if you know how. Unfortunately, cannot be done with FWD or AWD, but it's not difficult with RWD and a good emergency brake. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I learned to do that .... That's what kids do on saturday nights here http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KL1ZB]

I drive a manual transmission and other then for minor braking I always push the clutch in. One reason is on ice if you don't you can stall the engine. When I drive a automatic I don't do it for fear I would slip it into another gear.

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (KL1ZB @ Dec. 01 2006,19:20)]I drive a manual transmission and other then for minor braking I always push the clutch in. One reason is on ice if you don't you can stall the engine. When I drive a automatic I don't do it for fear I would slip it into another gear.
What?

You'd only stall the engine if you hit the brakes and forget to depress the clutch. If you never hit the brakes, why would the engine stall?

I think the worst thing to do on slippery surfaces is to hit the brakes. Power to the wheels will let them grab and go...braking won't.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Dec. 01 2006,18:26)]You'd only stall the engine if you hit the brakes and forget to depress the clutch. If you never hit the brakes, why would the engine stall?
It might possibly stall when it is jammed into the vehicle or other object you just hit because you didn't brake.

Quote[/b] ]
I think the worst thing to do on slippery surfaces is to hit the brakes. Power to the wheels will let them grab and go...braking won't.

That is what you are good at Steve. Thinking. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[al2i]

The three rules for winter driving. Southern CA version.

1. If you push the accelerator and you are not accelerating, push harder. This will eventually spin the engine fast enough to explode, and if the explosion is violent enough, it may kick your car out of the hole you dug in the snow and ice from the spinning tires.

2. If you press the brakes and are not slowing down, press harder. This will maintain a much lower kinetic friction coefficient between your tires and the ice, and you will quickly hit something to slow you down.

3. If you are trying to turn and your car is not turning, turn harder. This often creates a spin and your car will turn satisfyingly to every heading on the compass.

[VE7NOT]

I have been stuck in the snow once. Never had an accident in it though.

First time was here on Vancouver Island. It was snowing in the mountains but only raining at sea level.

I decided to go up the mountain. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

86 Ford Ranger 4x4. The mountain was 2680' high. I got to around the 2000' area and couldn't go any futher on the snow. I slid backwards. Giving up I went into reverse (big mistake) instead of a controlled reverse back to a tunaround I ended up sliding into a ditch.

After honking di-di-di-dah-dah-dah-di-di dit on the horn I got a logging truck to stop and help me out.


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

I don't beleive in braking much at anytime nevermind snow. Always have power behind the wheels is my rule.

One thing I noted here in our rare snowfall this week is:

DONT TRY AND CROSS THE ROADS WHEN CARS ARE COMING!

Seem simple?... not really I almost wiped an older lady out cause she figured I would stop at the crosswalk.. well I tried.... not that simple on ice.

WAIT UNTIL THERE ARE NO CARS! Shessh

[al2i]

I spent the afternoon in a Tucker Sno-Cat. It is pretty hard to get stuck.

[al2i]

This is the machine I was in. It is the same machine here at Kuparuk they show on their web site. Cool!

http://www.sno-cat.com/Images/ImageManager/6-pass-man-basket_pg1.jpg

[K9STH]

I learned (litterally) how to drive on snow (my birthday is in February) and I am from northwestern Indiana. Driving on snow is generally different then driving on ice.

In this part of the country (Dallas, Texas, area) ice can be much more of a problem than snow. The Dallas area is NOT flat (like west Texas) and there are a lot of hills on the roadways including the freeways. In fact, I live near the top of a hill (the highest point in the city is 1/2 block from my house).

What happens around here when it snows and/or the roads ice over is that some people go WAY too slow. Frankly, they don't have enough momentum to make it up the hills and they get stuck part way up the hill. Then they sit and spin their wheels. Of course there are those who think that they have to go even faster than normal and those are the ones that end up in the ditch, or worse.

One of the most stupid things that I have seen was when I was in college in Atlanta, Georgia. My wife's mother lived near the bottom of a hill and there was a pretty good snow storm. There was a girl who lived a few houses up the hill (but still "way down" it) who's boyfriend had an "idea". He put chains on only one of the rear tires of his car and tried to drive it. Now this was when most cars did NOT have "posi-traction and the car moved about a foot then the wheel with the chains stopped moving and the other rear wheel just spun.

Most people would have stopped the engine and put chains on the other rear wheel. But, this genius just sat there for almost an hour wasting gasoline with one tire locked in place and the other tire spinning! The tire would eventually get hot enough to melt the ice and the car would move about a foot. Then it would stop again with the one wheel spinning. I couldn't help but laugh. The unfortunate thing was that this guy was going to the same college as I (Georgia Tech). However, he was a "Math major" and not an engineering student.

Glen, K9STH

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ Dec. 01 2006,17:45)]Quote[/b] (K2WH @ Dec. 01 2006,15:06)]Been doing the neutral thingy for many years and works great.

K2WH
Yeah, I am amazed that you and IDT have lived long enough to give this "driving tip."

Shifting the transmission into neutral causes LOSS OF CONTROL of a vehicle in ANY condition.

I have done my share of driving on ice and snow including a semi. You would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER find me shifting any vehicle of any size, whether it's in ice, snow, rain, or dry payment, into neutral to stop.I want as much CONTROL over my vehicle as I can get.

I think this is a VERY DANGEROUS driving practice and VERY BAD ADVICE.
I have to second this. Yes, I'm in Southern california, no there's not much snow HERE.

However, regular trips to Oregon, over the siskyous and ski trips, for 20 years, never one moving accident, let alone snow/ice related. (Not counting being hit stopped at a stop light and in a store parking lot, again stopped.)

If you are doing this, your car is NOT in proper shape! Or you are "2 footing" it (one foot on gas and 1 on brake) probably pressing both pedals. A car with no acc applied should have no push at anything beyond a few miles/hour.

If your traction is so bad that your tires spin so easy you should not be driving it anyway. Either you need chains, studs or some other type of tire.

[wa4brl]

{Rant mode ON}

If you're in an area that seldom gets snow and/or you're inexperienced at driving in wintery conditions:

the best advice for driving in it is DON'T!

Please stay home where you'll be safe and warm and you won't be inconveniencing or endangering those who HAVE to be out there.

{END rant mode}

[wv6z]

Winter Driving ~ Souf Kaliner Style

Pretty much what Steve said above.... just be sure you do your part to support your local grocery store, which I think is a legal requirement too anyway and be sure to stop and buy bread and milk even if you don't consume either one. Then, once you get home, remember it never really snows in South Carolina and on the rare occasion we have a Canadian Frost, remember it always covers 6 inches of solid ice, so stay at home. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KG6YTZ]

If it ever snowed here, I'd just stay the heck off the road! #Not only do I not know how to drive on snow and ice*, there are millions of other people here who possess approximately the same level of skill. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #Conditions would become very bad, very quickly.

* Because I've never had to, because it doesn't snow here.

[AE6IP]

I grew up in Montana, and after years of careful driving, finally learned how to deal with driving in the snow:

Move someplace where it doesn't snow!

[WB2WIK]

I did move someplace where it doesn't snow.

But since I like to ski, which involves snow until somebody invents a better way, I still have to drive in the snow several times each year.

Experience helps a lot. Second, behind experience, is having RWD -- at least for me. I've spent several years driving FWD vehicles, since most on the market today are, but they just don't compare for driving on snow and ice (either); not too wild about FWD for driving in rain, either. Anything that can break traction is bad news for FWD designs.

Not to mention that RWD is generally cheaper to maintain and allows vehicles to make tighter turns and much tighter U-turns.

When driving up 395 in the eastern Sierra at above 7000 feet or so, I find myself zig-zagging around dozens, sometimes hundreds, of cars that are simply stuck on the steeply inclined, snow covered road. A number of the "stuckees" are cops, in police cars, with tire chains. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I always smile and wave at them, offer them a push. Every now and then one will take me up on the offer.

Never been stuck yet.

WB2WIK/6

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Dec. 01 2006,18:57)]This is the machine I was in. It is the same machine here at Kuparuk they show on their web site. Cool!

http://www.sno-cat.com/Images/ImageManager/6-pass-man-basket_pg1.jpg
It is hard to get a sno-cat stuck. But it can happen. Takes two to get one out. Don't know if anyone ever got a second one stuck. Wouldn't want to be around.

Dropped the left front track of one into an iced-over snowed-over pond one time. Trying to back out or go forward wouldn't work because the wet track got jammed up under the solid bit of ice in front of back of the weak spot we dropped the track in.

Not as bad as the time as one of the idjits decided to drop a track on a D9 when he was in the river, but close.

"Dude, we're gonna need some torches out here, and a ramp."

[WB2WIK]

If I'm driving in snow country, that means I have skis, poles, boots and the right clothing.

I always figured if I got seriously stuck, I could just ski my way out. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Never got stuck yet, so the theory is untested.

[AE6IP]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Dec. 01 2006,19:17)]The unfortunate thing was that this guy was going to the same college as I (Georgia Tech). However, he was a "Math major" and not an engineering student.
Because, as we all know, a georgia tech engineering student woulda kept putting rock salt under the free tire to help the ice melt.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[AE6IP]

When I first came to NASA in the bay area from Montana, by boss was a Southern California guy who had never driven in the snow.

We had to make a trip out to Cray Research, which meant flying into the twin cities and then driving to Eau Claire Wisconsin. My boss rented a big lincoln, figuring he would have less trouble in the snow with a heavier car. Fortunately, the roads were dry on our trip out to Eau Claire.

The night before we left, it started snowing hard, and was still snowing the next morning when we were getting ready to leave. I tried to talk him into letting me drive, but he was sure it'd be ok. Fortunately it had stopped snowing by then, but the road crews had only just started and most of the roads weren't plowed or sanded.

My boss drove back with me in the backseat and two other people in the car. Every so often we'd see another car in the ditch and I'd get a little more worried. Every time we went up an incline the car would start fishtailing but eventually settle down. I was pretty happy when we finally got to Saint Paul and the road was dry.

At that point, my boss said "I'm really disappointed in this car. The cruise control sure had a lot of trouble on the hills coming back."

Someone was sure looking after me that day.

[kf4vgx]

Winter Driving Hint, For snow and ice. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif .

http://photos.signonsandiego.com/gallery1.5/albums/sdsnow2006/JM_snow253861x178.jpg

Stay at " HOME " # . You may have all the experience in the world for driving in snow or ice, but that can't save you from the unexperienced driver.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Dec. 02 2006,20:22)]When I first came to NASA in the bay area from Montana, by boss was a Southern California guy who had never driven in the snow.

We had to make a trip out to Cray Research, which meant flying into the twin cities and then driving to Eau Claire Wisconsin. My boss rented a big lincoln, figuring he would have less trouble in the snow with a heavier car. #Fortunately, the roads were dry on our trip out to Eau Claire.

The night before we left, it started snowing hard, and was still snowing the next morning when we were getting ready to leave. I tried to talk him into letting me drive, but he was sure it'd be ok. Fortunately it had stopped snowing by then, but the road crews had only just started and most of the roads weren't plowed or sanded.

My boss drove back with me in the backseat and two other people in the car. Every so often we'd see another car in the ditch and I'd get a little more worried. Every time we went up an incline the car would start fishtailing but eventually settle down. I was pretty happy when we finally got to Saint Paul and the road was dry.

At that point, my boss said "I'm really disappointed in this car. The cruise control sure had a lot of trouble on the hills coming back."

Someone was sure looking after me that day.
You're probably lucky to have survived that.

Speed control in snow/ice? Yougottabekiddin.

I had a great "drive in the snow and ice" teacher, though. It was my dad, in northern NJ, in the winter of '68.

He put me in the cockpit of a '62 Beetle (no heat, no A/C, no automatic xmission) and let me go for it, in various shopping center parking lots late at night when the worst I could do was plow into a snowbank, because nobody was there.

That was great practice.

I've now driven 1.7 million miles, about, and I'm 55. Got my driver's license at age 17. And in all these years, and all these cars, I've never had an accident and also never had a ticket (other than parking -- I won't go there.)

Dad was a good teacher, and I'm trying to do the same with my kids.

WB2WIK/6

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (w8idb @ Dec. 01 2006,11:46)]I discovered this about 50 years ago when I first began driving. #And since we are just getting into some snowy weather, at least in the northern areas, thought I'd post it here.

When attempting to stop on snow or icy roads, we all know what happens when we brake too hard. #We start sliding and who knows where the car will end up.

This will work with FWD, RWD, 4WD, ABS brakes or not. #Simply shift to neutral before you apply the brakes, or on the stick shift vehicle, simply push in the clutch. #The idea is to have NO wheels driving, and four wheels braking. #This assumes that we are driving at a prudent speed for the conditions to begin with.

This also works when turning from the main drag onto a side street. #You won't slide up against the opposite curb.

Try this out in an empty parking lot after the next snowfall and see how nice it works. Try not to shift past neutral into reverse. #That creats a whole 'nuther problem.

Lastly, when driving in a rain storm, do not use your cruise control, with a FWD vehicle. #That can create another set of problems causing your vehicle to go out of control.

Wishing everyone a safe winter driving experience.
realy realy bum advice

I grew up driving in Michigan
drove tractor trailer northern Michigan
and Ontario

advice for driving in the ice and snow
slow down
thats it
slow the blank down

Mac

[N7YS]

Most amazing thread. I'd like to honor everybodies personal system for driving on the ice, if it works for them. Most of those won't work for me though. I learned to drive on ice, farm tractor with chains and manure spreader. Up hill, the front wheels would be lifted off the ground by the weight on the draw bar, you steer with the wheel brakes, maintain altitude of your front tires with the hydraulic control for the draw bar. Down hill you use engine compression to help slow you down. Braking could break traction and cause a slide leading into a jacknife. That's not fun with a load of cow manure.
At faster speeds on the hiway, just don't try to change speeds very fast. Means you have to be looking far down the road and avoid needing to stop suddenly. Steer straight. Its tough to pass snow plows, they throw up a lot of mess and usually have a berm of snow and clods of ice coming off the plow you have to charge through, but you can't see it because of the snow blowing around the snowplow. Watch out for the plow sticks out from the truck several feet. Undriven lanes can be a little smoother than the tracked iced up and rutted lanes. You want to get out into the open, away from the crowd so you can go your comfortable speed without other vehicles around you doing stupid things. If you start to wobble, gently but instantly get off the gas a little and steer toward the direction you were going (Steer into the spin, what ever that means). Front wheel drive you power out of a fishtail sometimes. First time I drove a FWD, it saved my life in a snowstorm because I was able to drive out of a wreck coming across lanes at me, I was already on the left shoulder with nothing but several hundred foot cliff down to the left, I powered out away from the cars sliding at me with the FWD. I'm sure a RWD would have fishtailed me over the edge. Slow down before you come to a steep hill and get into maybe two gears down. When you have to stop, Use engine braking as much as you can and down shift, but when the engine starts to push you, you'll have to clutch or get it into neutral and gently use your brakes. Stay away from being at a light in the left turn lane, cars coming turning right will slide into you. Ice at 32 degrees is much slipperier than ice at below zero. Its easier to drive at below zero, except you gotta watch what the car and engine are doing. Radiators get covered with snow, then your car will over heat. Ice builds up in your wheel wells, then you can't steer when you need to. Watch out for carbon monoxide building up inside your car with your windows closed. There's a sad story about a lady in Wichita, drove to Topeka with her kids in the back seat. When she got there, oh you don't want to know. Watch out for carbon monoxide building up in your car. It sinks, hard to tell you got it. If you get a lot of headaches driving, could be CO.
Enough
N7YS

[KC2PBJ]

Quote[/b] (wa4brl @ Dec. 01 2006,23:48)]{Rant mode ON}

If you're in an area that seldom gets snow and/or you're inexperienced at driving in wintery conditions:

the best advice for driving in it is DON'T!

Please stay home where you'll be safe and warm and you won't be inconveniencing or endangering those who HAVE to be out there.

{END rant mode}
The above is the best advice that can be given. If you must go out (for booze, smokes, or other essentials), take the bus! The life you save may be ours.