How do hybrids cars

[W1GUH]

Curious

[al2i]

For heat, you can set the back seat on fire.



...I mean with a Friend!

[w3bny]

To cool (and de-smoke from the burnt up back seat), just open all the windows

[W3MIV]

All of the hybrids I know of have conventional engines (smaller displacement gas engines) in addition to the electric propulsion and battery system, and interior heat would no doubt remain a function of the cooling system and a/c would run off the waterpump belt (or fan belt if such is fitted) as in any non-hybrid auto.

I have a friend who is driving one of the Toyota hybrids (can't recall the name, but it is getting to be very common around here) and he absolutely loves it.

[W1GUH]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

(Not aimed at you, Albert)

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Nov. 30 2006,13:57)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

(Not aimed at you, Albert)
Not a problem. I've been aimed at by far worse. And will be again, I'm sure.

If your question was serious, you should have known better!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W1GUH]

Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Nov. 29 2006,11:57)]All of the hybrids I know of have conventional engines (smaller displacement gas engines) in addition to the electric propulsion and battery system, and interior heat would no doubt remain a function of the cooling system and a/c would run off the waterpump belt (or fan belt if such is fitted) as in any non-hybrid auto.

I have a friend who is driving one of the Toyota hybrids (can't recall the name, but it is getting to be very common around here) and he absolutely loves it.
I just read something about one of the hybrids, a Toyota I think, and it used an electric A/C. #The guy was extolling the virtues of not having the compressor driven by the motor.

So, A/C is (at least in some cases) electric. #Maybe for heat they turn it into a heat pump?

I had thought, like you, that the A/C was pretty much conventional, e.g., on the gas engine, and maybe it is on some hybrids, but that would seem to negate the advantages of a hybrid, like, the enging would be running a lot more. #OTOH...an A/C's gotta take lots out of the batteries (gawd...the idea of a battery operated A/C is kinda mind-boggling), but wouldn't require constant use of the gas motor (just more of it).

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[K0RGR]

I've read recently elsewhere that someone is trying to reduce the electrical noise generated by a Toyota hybrid, with some success, but still a long way to go.

Reportedly, Toyota is taking some action to reduce their noise problem, but it's all a 'work in progress'. I think I'll hold off on the Prius for a while. Reportedly, it's hard to hear the local repeater on 2 meters, and HF is a waste of time.

[W3MIV]

Prius. TU.

We have all become spoiled. Back in the 50s, a heater was still optional equipment, as was the radio (tubes and vibrator), a/c was a rare bird for most folks.

Back then, car dealers almost always ordered the R&H as standard, but you paid extra for them nonetheless. PS and PB were options, too, as was the automatic.

I still prefer crank windows, but just try to find a car or truck that still has them. I will confess, though, that I have not had a problem with power glass in the past few machines.

Probably shouldn't have mentioned that!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[WB2WIK]

61 VW Beetle:

Heat = wear a heavy coat
A/C = 260 type (2 windows open, drive 60 mph)

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2WIK/6

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Nov. 30 2006,15:05)]61 VW Beetle:

Heat = wear a heavy coat
A/C = 260 type (2 windows open, drive 60 mph)

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2WIK/6
I had a '57. I know the drill. Mine also had the little petcock on the floorboards that one had to remember to reset when filling the tank.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ka5piu]

Hello.

The toyota runs a heatpump off the traction battery.
The battery is around 200VDC at a few Ah rating.
This battery is also used to start the Prius, so 12 volts is in short supply.
There is a motorcycle sized battery that can provide a bit of power for brake lights and emergency flashers that is recharged by a switching power supply.
The entire car is a switching power supply with an engine and four wheels.
Anything over 30 watts of power has been known to cause a safety shutdown of the computers, and I said computers.
There are no less than 5 computers onboard, full options is 8.
Each and every one beeps, boops, grinds and buzzes on whatever HF band there is.
At least it does not play favorites, it gives 11 meters hell also.
But, with all the computers going it is one of the most hacked cars on the planet.

[W1GUH]

Thanks!

As for the number of computers....

According to what was covered under the warranty...

My '92 Celica has separate computers for the sunroof and for the power windows (in addition to the "usual" ones.)

[KC7UP]

My 2006 Trailblazer has 22 computers of one type or another. I also remember in the '40s of our car have a hole in the firewall to do duty as a heater for the passenger compartment. Fumes were a added bonus.
Curt

[KD6NIG]

Now, when you start a hybrid on a cold morning, does the engine start and 'warm up' before shutting down?

I'd imagine a cold engine starting stopping and restarting until it gets 'warm' would be pretty rough on it.

And if thats the case, there would be 'warm water' for the heater to tap, since the motor does warm the water, and I'm guessing even at cruise, every 5 minutes or so its gonna kick on for a minute or 2, keeping it warm.....

But I dunno http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Don't have one. Mine drones on constantly, and I only have a small battery that I have to replace every 4 years or so http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W4HAY]

Which brings up another question: How often does that battery have to be replaced, and how much does it cost?

[KC4HGH]

I'm a "why not/why can't?" sort of person, so here goes: why can't a vehicle be built with an alternator system that would constantly charge the batteries while it's running? That'd be totally electric and wouldn't require fossil/biofuel?

It's a simple request, one that I'm sure has been explored, but I don't think I've ever seen it on the road....

[VA3SAX]

that would be your 'ideal' system...physics calsses study them because they're easier...but the problem is they're unrealistic...there are frictional losses and so on and so on...so while we might be able to get close nothing would be able to run perpetually like that everything at one point will need the extra energy from outside sources

[ka0gkt]

Quote[/b] (KC4HGH @ Nov. 30 2006,14:53)]I'm a "why not/why can't?" sort of person, so here goes: why can't a vehicle be built with an alternator system that would constantly charge the batteries while it's running? #That'd be totally electric and wouldn't require fossil/biofuel?

It's a simple request, one that I'm sure has been explored, but I don't think I've ever seen it on the road....
What source of energy would run the "Alternator"? #It wouldn't necessarily need to be fossil fueled, but some outside source of energy would be needed, otherwise what you envision would be the fabled perpetual motion machine.

I remember reading about a university class which built a liquid nitrogen "Fueled" mail jeep a few years back. #It used the vapor pressure of the liquid Nitrogen to operate a small air turbine ofo the type used aboard naval ships to run winches, etc. #The little jeep had great air conditioning, but I'd bet it was a little uncomfortable in the winter http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

While the liquid nitrogen fueled vehicle might seem at the outset to be a low pollution method of transportation, it does take quite a bit of energy to liquify Nitrogen, and that energy would need to come from yet another source, nuclear, solar, falling water, wind, or our most common source of energy...Fossil Fuel.

<THE EDIT>

Here's a link for the Liquid Nitrogen Article: http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/1999/012199/F2.Therealliq.html

<END of EDIT>



73 DE KAØGKT/7

--Steve

[ka5piu]

Hello.

The first thing a Prius does is to start the IC engine.
This is done by turning the generator into a motor for a second and spinning the engine at 2000+ RPM.
At first no fuel is applied, the air getting compressed warms the pistons, then the quickly warmed engine is allowed to fire.
The engine is allowed to run at a controlled fast idle for a few seconds and then may shut down or keep running depending on the state of charge of the traction battery.
The Prius will use the drive system to recharge the battery on stops by what is called dynamic breaking.
Here is an excellent forum for the Prius.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/
The Prius has been adapted to run in electric only or 'EV' mode but is not normally offered that way.

[W1GUH]

Not to get heavy here....

But something doesn't add up. #I'm sure that the new hybrids have effective heat and AC. #They wouldn't sell many if they didn't.

But it's very difficult to find information on how the heaters and A/C's work. #It took a lot of digging to find out that one of the hybrid models uses an electric AC, and a post confirmed that there's a heat pump for heat.

OK...here's the question...

(Shades of the '60 Corvair whose gas heater used more gas than the engine)

Could it be that, in stop and go traffic on a hot day, the A/C uses more fuel than the motor? #Do they spec hybrids that way?

Or is this being swept under the rug?

Just wondering

[ka5piu]

Hello.

In stop and go LA traffic, where it may take 2 hours to get from centro to the market, the prius normally never starts the engine.
In the middle of summer the engine will start and run for 5 minutes every hour.
So, the engine may run for 10 minutes total.
At night, the engine may not start but the one time and that is it.
On the highway, of course, the engine runs all the time.
And, replacement batteries are only now beginning to be an issue, the thing costs several grand new.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (W1GUH @ Dec. 01 2006,11:57)]Not to get heavy here....

But something doesn't add up. #I'm sure that the new hybrids have effective heat and AC. #They wouldn't sell many if they didn't.

But it's very difficult to find information on how the heaters and A/C's work. #It took a lot of digging to find out that one of the hybrid models uses an electric AC, and a post confirmed that there's a heat pump for heat.

OK...here's the question...

(Shades of the '60 Corvair whose gas heater used more gas than the engine)

Could it be that, in stop and go traffic on a hot day, the A/C uses more fuel than the motor? #Do they spec hybrids that way?

Or is this being swept under the rug?

Just wondering
If the heater is a heat pump, wouldn't the a/c be the same machine running in reverse? Is that not the usual for any heat pump -- which compresses gas and draws off the heat from the compression, and expands the gas to draw heat from the environment in which the expansion takes place?

If this is so, what manner of "emergency" heat -- a backup just like is installed in a home heat pump -- for those days when the heat pump alone cannot handle the job.

How many folks on the Upper Peninsula, not to even think of northern BC or Manitoba, are going to drive these things in winter?

I still vote for the hot water of a conventional engine as the heater -- no matter how they operate the a/c.

Somebody go look under the hood of one of these things.

[W1GUH]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Nov. 30 2006,10:18)]Hello.

In stop and go LA traffic, where it may take 2 hours to get from centro to the market, the prius normally never starts the engine.
In the middle of summer the engine will start and run for 5 minutes every hour.
So, the engine may run for 10 minutes total.
At night, the engine may not start but the one time and that is it.
On the highway, of course, the engine runs all the time.
And, replacement batteries are only now beginning to be an issue, the thing costs several grand new.
Quote[/b] ]In the middle of summer the engine will start and run for 5 minutes every hour.

Wow! I wouldn't have guessed that an effective A/C could be that efficient. Cool!

Re: batteries

While looking for answers I remember reading that in the battery tests that have been done (I think about 100K miles), the batteries hadn't shown any deteriation at that point, neither did a taxicab with about 240K on it. Could be the costs and lifetime of the batteries is on a par (or maybe better) than a gas engine.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (KC4HGH @ Nov. 30 2006,17:53)]I'm a "why not/why can't?" sort of person, so here goes: why can't a vehicle be built with an alternator system that would constantly charge the batteries while it's running? That'd be totally electric and wouldn't require fossil/biofuel?

It's a simple request, one that I'm sure has been explored, but I don't think I've ever seen it on the road....
mmmmh, perpetual motion... if you find the solution to this you will get very very very rich http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

There are some bozos who are trying hard (http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=6189540769300973039&q=perendev) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif