cd / cassette recording of amateur . cb frequencie

[ai4ep]

What ARE the rules / regulations concerning the audio recording to a cd player straight from the receiver, or the use of a cassette recorder to folks saying things they should not be saying over the amateur / cb frequencies --- in example -- the dude on 14.275 is saying a lot of stuff, and getting it played back the next hour / day / week along with other folks in the past.

I mean, like with a C D, no one can modify it , it is etched ( burned ) into the disc, of folks making threats, agitation, aggravation, etc. A cassette CAN be modified, but a C D can not.

Also, how about folks using the cb channels to verbally harass / intimifate / defamation of character folks that they can not get along with...is it legal to record them ( with a C D #or a cassette ) them threatening another operator, with bodily harm, destruction of property, etc #?

What can be done about either scenerio ? # Of course the accused is going to deny saying / threatening the other person #? #Of course the accused is going to deny making the threat..... What if a few hours / days later one of the two gets his windshield busted, tires slashed, etc, and the only suspect is the person who threatened him ? # How is he to prove it without a burned CD / cassette tape ?

Many folks get upset over the radio, ( amateur frequencies, frs, cb , etc ) how are they to protect theirselves from random acts of violence against them ?

Does any one know ?

Is a burned cd / cassette legal to use as evidence of wrong doing ?

It IS the persons own voice making the threats, saying the words , how is he going to deny it ?

[k6az]

First, playing back recordings is against the rules as the FCC has nailed several stations for doing it.

Second, CDs can be modified. You simply convert the audio CD to a .wav file on your computer, edit it, and burn a new CD.

[n0iu]

You can record anything you want, but its what you do with those recordings that can get you into trouble.

According to Part 97.113(e), "No station shall retransmit programs or signals from any type of radio station other than an amateur station...

So it would appear as if it is actually OK to retransmit amateur signals, but what those "dudes" are doing on 14.275 is really a bad idea.

If you want to file a complaint against an amateur, making any sort of recording would be most helpful.

Scott NØIU

[W4HAY]

Quote[/b] (k6az @ Nov. 19 2006,14:18)]...playing back recordings is against the rules...
Adding 'on the air' to the phrase would make it more accurate.

I'm no legal eagle, but I think the difference is that ham radio, CB, etc. for this purpose is considered 'broadcast', as contrasted to cell phones, etc.

Reading ARRL's guide to the FCC rules, it is stated that you can retransmit only what is recorded in the Amateur spectrum, and only with permission from the recordee. There are exceptions for emergency transmission and certain other special cases. Except for repeaters, such retransmissions are to be under manual control.

Remember the days when all phone patch traffic had to be recorded? Boy, did we capture some side-splitters on tape!

New Tech calls girlfriend to show off autopatch:
KA4xxx: "Hi! Guess where I am!"
GF: "I dunno!"
KA4xxx: "In my car, talking to you on my radio!"
GF: "That's nice. Why not drive to my place? I wanna tear all your clothes off!"
KA4xxx: --carrier, dead silence, trying to think what to say!

What those listening didn't hear was the control op laughing so hard he couldn't shut the autopatch down!

[W5HTW]

Amateur radio is specifically exempt from communications privacy, first of all. That means anything heard on the amateur bands is not considered private communications, the way things heard on scanners, for example, are. That gives the right to repeat things heard on the amateur bands, including to rebroadcast amateur transmissions on standard broadcast.

Recording amateur transmissions for re-broadcast on amateur frequencies, by an amateur station is not specifically prohibited. Many Amateur Radio Newsline bulletin stations have picked up the Newsline broadcast 'off the air' and rebroadcast portions of it. Most of the Newsline bulletin stations, though, got it from a phone line and rebroadcast it, making that point moot.

To answer your question, though, unless you intend to record the gloop on 1427 and rebroadcast it, no problem. If you simply want to send it as evidence to someone, such as the FCC, or if you simply want to burn copies and send to the hams you heard, that, too, is no problem. It is entirely legal to record amateur transmissions.

IF, though, you wish to rebroadcast them, then why the concern over the authenticity of the CD? I'm not sure this is categorically addressed in the rules, but it certainly mean, if you got on the air and played the CD, even with ten minute breaks for ID, that you would be 'broadcasting.' And that IS illegal. You could play back small portions of the CD, legally. That is done all the time, when one fellow plays back a recording of another's signal, to let him hear how it sounds, and it is legal. But to simply play it back in what is not a two-way QSO is broadcasting and is illegal, even if only short segments are played.

In other words, if you were in contact with old Jim Bob, and you asked him if he heard the junk on 14275 the other day, and he said he did not, you could probably consider it legal to play back a small portion of that to old Jim Bob. You are in two way communication, it is not specifically illegal, as long as no profanity, commercial content, etc., is involved. But it's a gray area, and I, for one, would not recommend it.

Ed

[k6az]

Quote[/b] (W4HAY @ Nov. 18 2006,10:00)]Quote[/b] (k6az @ Nov. 19 2006,14:18)]...playing back recordings is against the rules...
Adding 'on the air' to the phrase would make it more accurate.

I'm no legal eagle, but I think the difference is that ham radio, CB, etc. for this purpose is considered 'broadcast', as contrasted to cell phones, etc.
I thought that went without saying, but yes, I'm speaking of the type of nonsense that is found on 14.275.

There is nothing wrong with recording amateur radio transmissions, but there is with playing them over the air to either interfere with other stations or to broadcast.

[ai4ep]

.....interesting.

what else is there to add ?

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif ...at least not until now.

[KC5SAS]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Nov. 19 2006,08:13)]#That means anything heard on the amateur bands is not considered private communications, the way things heard on scanners, for example, are. #
I can hear many ham bands on my scanner.

[KI4QFY]

Im recording MP3s off HF during the SS contest right now. ;-)

I missed getting a clown that was interfearing with the contest.. "What is your call.... What is your call...." sounding like a circus clown. And Im working hard to upgrade so I can deal with that.. sigh. Its okay, I can spin the dial and move if I want.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ Nov. 19 2006,07:52)]According to Part 97.113(e), "No station shall retransmit programs or signals from any type of radio station other than an amateur station...
With NASA's permission, it is also now legal to rebroadcast the live NASA feeds on amateur frequencies (maybe on VHF/UHF only? Not sure.).

73, Rob

[KM5FL]

1000/.2500

1300/2500

WOW!!!! Got it on tape??


KM5FL

[ai4ep]

5fl --- what does that mean ?

[ai4ep]

sas --- that is correct...most any programmable scanner will recieve 2 meter FM, 440 FM, 6 meter FM and some even will on 10 meters also.

oops:D

Then you have the portable shortwave receivers which will recieve ( according to different models of even the same brand name ) , and even have a BUILT - IN cassette recorder / player. Some are several years old now ( 1990 s production ) but are still available at pawn shops, yard sales, estate amateur sales, or possibly even on ebay. Then there may be current models available that even have the cd option ...who knows ? They may not be widely advertised here in the USA, but easily avialable possibly in other countries, legally.

Gee, who would have ever thunk of it ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[AG3Y]

Robert, unfortunately, most of those SWBC receivers with a built in tape recorder are really atrocious SSB receivers, and that is really what you need to have, in order to do a good job of picking up a station.

I have two computers here that are capable of making high quality audio recordings of any length up to the amount of storage space on my hard drives. They both have been used in the "record to CD project" ( see my bio ) and could produce anything necessary to be used as evidence against some of those lids.

However, I really don't have the time or patience to play "kilocycle kop". I'm just saying that it isn't all that difficult to make recordings of any amount of audio that you would wish to do! All you need is the right software/hardware combination !

73, Jim

[ve2nsm]

Exactly, making recordings with the computer is easy, too easy, anybody can record, edit an burn a CD.
Tapes and tape recorders are things of the past.

[K9STH]

With the exception of amateur radio and broadcast radio it is definitely against the law to repeat anything that you hear over the radio. Even "CB" radio is protected against this. You might not agree with this practice, but it is part of the Communications Act of 1934 as ammended.

Glen, K9STH

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 22 2006,15:44)]With the exception of amateur radio and broadcast radio it is definitely against the law to repeat anything that you hear over the radio. Even "CB" radio is protected against this. You might not agree with this practice, but it is part of the Communications Act of 1934 as ammended.

Glen, K9STH
Most transmissions that are sent "in the clear" are exempted from the interception and disclosure rule. Cell phones and cordless phones are covered, but ham radio, CB, police radio, LMRS, etc, are all fair game.

These rules are covered in the ECPA written a few years ago.

This is a common misconception that many people have. There is no expectation of privacy to most radio transmissions that are not encrypted.

Joe

[kf4vgx]

W5HTW , Right again #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .
Amateurs like to record as well as ridicule #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

Especially if your in disagreement..

Heres a link where you will find a recording of my voice associated with the video of a monkey. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Actually , quite cute.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6X0kRnGHBIQ&mode=related&search=

This person signed in as JohnnyEcholinker.
Not me thats for sure ' GRIN '.
However they didn't stop there .

http://dabble.com/tag/node



Happy Thanksgiving #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

[VE7NOT]

I actually have recorded a few of our nets up here on the computer. When I have time I will post them. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WA9SVD]

For Amateur Radio Operators, it is legal to RECORD broadcast (AM, TV, FM, SWL stations) AND specifically Amateur AND CB signals. (Shuttle communications were later added, with the permission of NASA. NASA has given blanket permission to Amateur stations to rebroadcast the normal Shuttle comms. as well as weather and propagation bulletins, on an "occasional" basis.)
What is NOT legal is to rebroadcast any but the Amateur signals, and only with the permission of that station for brief periods. This a signal check replayed for an Amateur to hear his own signal would be permissible.
But Amateur AND CB signals are specifically exempted from the "Privacy" rules in regards to recording, but CB may not be rebroadcast over Amateur Radio.

[k4kyv]

But there is nothing illegal about re-playing a recorded amateur signal over the air to another station you are in QSO with. That is not broadcasting. I don't recall anything in Part 97 about a legal requirement to have the recorded station's permission to play the recording over the air, although that might still be considered common courtesy.

Many of the prohibitions against transmitting material not directly related to amateur radio, that could be considered broadcasting, can be circumvented by simply being in QSO with another station and directing that information to your contact.

Even one-way transmissions are legal, as long as the content is of direct interest to amateur licensees. W1AW has done it for nearly three-quarters of a century. WA0RCR has done it on 1860 kHz for decades. K1MAN also attempted it, but got into trouble by exercising poor judgement in how he went about it, and the type of material he transmitted.

Broadcasting is defined in the amateur radio rules as one-way transmissions on amateur frequencies directed to the general public.

Even transmissions that are in full compliance with Part 97 could still be subject to civil penalties, if the complainant can convince a judge or jury that they are slanderous and/or libelous.

[ai4ep]

It would appear that the only folks who would OPPOSE their being recorded with or without their permission would be those who have something to hide..as in their words, with THEIR voice identifying the radio transmission as being from that individual person ( and eliminating every one else )...especially when he / she is saying slanderous / libel things about another person ( from the President, down to another radio operator ), or threats to DO harm ( in so many different ways ) , etc.

Those who consistently " run off at the mouth --- hide behind a microphone "are the ones that should be held accountable for their words said over the airwaves, what ever the frequency / band / mode .

The same can and should be done for those here on the internet who call other people vile and lousy names, then do not have the back bone to apologize for it, when the words of their own post reveal their intent in posting such dangerous words for all to read, whether the person they are speaking about gets to read the words or not. They still should be hald accountable / responsible.

Those individuals would want others to pay for their actions, and the opposite is no different. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[WA9SVD]

Glen K9STH (and others:)

Communications Act of 1934, Section 705(a):

No person receiving, assisting in receiving, transmitting, or assisting in transmitting any interstate or foreign communication by wire or radio shall divulgeor publish the existence, contents,...thereof, to any person other than the addressee...

This section shall NOT apply to the receiving, divulging, publishing or utilizing the contents of any radio communication which is transmitted by any station for the use of the general public, which relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles or persons in distress, OR which is transmitted by an Amateur radio station OR by a citizen's band radio operator.

-------------------------------

So there you have it. IT's OK to listen to Amateurs AND CB'ers, if you so desire. And divulge the information heard. But retransmission via Amateur Radio is another legal matter expressly dealt with in 47CFR97.113.

Sorry I didn't have the exact section of the Comm. Act of 1934 to quote earlier.

[ai4ep]

...ok...thank you.

[KM5FL]

Quote[/b] (KM5FL @ Nov. 19 2006,22:50)]1000/.2500

1300/2500

WOW!!!! Got it on tape??


KM5FL
It's all in the numbers, EP.... It's all in the numbers.. Study it and think about it some more.. You'll get it.


KM5FL

[ai4ep]

no, I just dont understand that at all. Please explain it to those of us not as wise as yew are.

Thanks for helping... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif