WHEN WILL THE CODE BE DROPPED? [Archive] - Page 2

kd4mxe

12-02-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote[/b] (VE3TRU @ Nov. 30 2006,15:07)]Well I think it has to happen someday.
end. Now RAC is proposing a "Restructuring of Amateur Radio in Canada". These same trolls were against the 5 word limit, and the no code option, Im skeptical of anything they say. The truth is, new operators are dropping out because of the politics, and the old ones are just dying out.
ve3tru-I live in Canada and the code was dropped like 3 years ago; funny thing the world didn’t end,--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
no it did not and it will not here in the good old u s of A, you cant stop time it moves on you go with it or you stay Behind and cry about it But the crying will do no good it will still go on , some just have not learned that yet But they will, 73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ab8ro

12-02-2006, 02:36 PM

It will happen soon, trust me on this.

ky5u

12-02-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 02 2006,07:36)]It will happen soon, trust me on this.
and...

ai4ep

12-02-2006, 04:44 PM

YO -- you must have an endless supply of pictures like that.....please CONTINUE to share them with the rest of us. Some complain ( of course ), but if they did not look, they would not get upset...plus if you were not right, they would not get upset.

good work by a fellow amateur with a 4 call.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

wa9cwx

12-02-2006, 05:18 PM

Ditto ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K7JEM

12-02-2006, 05:57 PM

Hey, Charlie has more groupies!

w5alt

12-02-2006, 07:32 PM

Charlie's really good at drawing the humor impaired out of their shyness!

W5HTW

12-02-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote[/b] (kb0mmb @ Nov. 18 2006,21:00)]Im ready to take the test for General class and DO NOT have the time or desire to study the code..which I will NEVER use in 5 lifetimes...I enjoy talking on 2-70 cm and have NO desire to sit there and hit a little key all day!
So..when will it happen?
No, you are NOT "ready to take the General test." The General test requires passing the code.

Post again when you ARE ready to take the General test.

Ed

ai4ep

12-02-2006, 08:56 PM

I took a test that required knowlwedge of packet , rtty, and other modes that I never use, yet I did not complain, whine or cry ( beg ) about it. I , as a man, took the test any way, and ( of course ) passed each and every written and morse code test required by the F C C .

Do some of you think that you are ---

*special
*privileged
*above the law
*not required to go by the FCC rules & regulations

and not have to take a simple ( yes, it really is THAT simple, and easy...too !! ) 5 wpm test to see if you know the minimum amount of knowledge of morse code.

I remember back when I " thought " the idea was stupid, too.

Then my attitude changed.

Fellow licensed amateur radio operators told me ( in my presence ) that I was not smart enough to be any thing more than a NCT.

So I proved all of them to be wrong.

And ( yes there IS more ) I have not regretted LEARNING what I did to become a GENERAL class, and then also an EXTRA class license, still has not slowed me down from my day-to-day LEARNING experience. I have LEARNED how to make di-pole antennas, do the math to find the length of simple antennas, and so much( yes so much ) more.

Getting the opportunity to communicate with any other licensed amateur radio operator in any country is a much sought after privilege, without the need for computers, etc...I can do it with a simple transceiver, and a modest antenna...and so can the rest of you....just pass the test.

Many folks would enjoy communicating with you,all around the world.

You have nothing to lose and so much to gain. That is one point that is undersaid by many... " so much to gain "...just by learning 5 words per minute morse code.

So why wait, get started today. If I can do it, why can you not ?

Why let some one who does not think enough of theirself to grow, slow you down ?

Make your own decision, and learn morse code..no need is letting some one else make up your mind / decision FOR you...

ab8ro

12-02-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 01 2006,10:44)]if you were not right, they would not get upset.
I'm glad that you think posting derogatory pictures and statements about others who you don't know personally is funny robert. I personally don't know Terry Schiavo, but here are some really funny jokes about her, remember, if you're offended, then you know that I'm right.

What do Terri Schiavo and Pam Anderson have in common?
98% of the time they are both lying down with their mouths open.

What’s the difference between Terri Schiavo and a Chia Pet?
Nobody gets upset if you stop watering the Chia.

What’s the difference between Terri Schiavo and a cell phone?
When the cell phone is dead you can plug it in again.

How does terry schiavo use the bathroom?
depends.

What’s the difference between Terri Schiavo and a broken TV?
FOX News doesn’t camp out on your lawn if you unplug the TV.

what is terri schiavo’s favorite fun activity?
tubing.

What’s the difference between Terri Schiavo and Ted Williams?
Ted Williams is in the frozen section.

What is the Florida state vegetable?
Terri Schiavo!

Did you hear MTV is making a show about Terri?
It’s called Unplugged

My god that's funny stuff!

ai4ep

12-02-2006, 10:34 PM

8ro --- well, if it were such a lousy idea, the moderators would have told AG4YO to behave.

What I AM waiting for to see, is the other sides pictures, for them to show THEIR feelings about the possibility of morse code removal.....when WILL we get to see any of that stuff ? Is no one on the " git rid of cw " side capable of doing what AG4YO is doing, to promote their side of the story ?? Obviously not....or we would have already seen at least one.

( idea )

...so...is any one going to step up to the plate on the other side, and show all of us your ideas ?

...or... just sit back and wait for some one ELSE to do it.

----------------------
the title of this thread is ---- "When will the code be dropped " ?

The answer COULD be -- on what ever day the " 13 & 20 wpm requirements " occurred.

So, the answer COULD be on that date, back in the past....and.. that this entire thread is about THAT day ( way back when ) and not some future date.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Yep, it COULD be.

ky5u

12-02-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 02 2006,15:24)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 01 2006,10:44)]if you were not right, they would not get upset.
I'm glad that you think posting derogatory pictures and statements about others who you don't know personally is funny robert. I personally don't know Terry Schiavo, but here are some really funny jokes about her, remember, if you're offended, then you know that I'm right.
This little guy has your name on his tag....

ai4ep

12-02-2006, 10:48 PM

Why do I have to keep arguing with folks who aint as wise as I am ?

Even in December of 2006.

It just never ends. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

w5alt

12-02-2006, 10:48 PM

Hey Charlie, you poke fun at NCT's who don't want to learn code and RO brings up Terry Schiavo.

I wouldn't have drawn that connection, would you?

73,
Walt, W5ALT

ai4ep

12-02-2006, 10:53 PM

...no but obviously ab8ro found a connection...all the way from California.

wow http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

ab8ro

12-02-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 01 2006,16:34)]8ro --- well, if it were such a lousy idea, the moderators would have told AG4YO to behave.
Right, the moderators are unbiased, please.

K0HWY

12-02-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 02 2006,15:56)]I took a test that required knowlwedge of packet , rtty, and other modes that I never use, yet I did not complain, whine or cry ( beg ) about it. I , as a man, took the test any way, and ( of course ) passed each and every written and morse code test required by the F C C .
Same here Robert.

There are many modes that I tested on that have no interest to me whatsoever. I'll never use some of them. Some, I might experiment with later but that's about it. None of them are essential; you could easily get by without them if you so desired. BUT... it's test material. If you want to get your ticket bad enough, you'll learn it. If not, you can sit at home on the sofa and whine about life's unfairness while those who aren't throwing a self pitty party enjoy the full benefits of having accepted and meeting the challenge at hand.

K7JEM

12-02-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 02 2006,16:13)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 02 2006,15:56)]I took a test that required knowlwedge of packet , rtty, and other modes that I never use, yet I did not complain, whine or cry ( beg ) about it. I , as a man, took the test any way, and ( of course ) passed each and every written and morse code test required by the F C C .
Same here Robert.

There are many modes that I tested on that have no interest to me whatsoever. I'll never use some of them. Some, I might experiment with later but that's about it. None of them are essential; you could easily get by without them if you so desired. BUT... it's test material. If you want to get your ticket bad enough, you'll learn it. If not, you can sit at home on the sofa and whine about life's unfairness while those who aren't throwing a self pitty party enjoy the full benefits of having accepted and meeting the challenge at hand.
But you never took a complete element on anything other than morse. And the test you did take on these other modes was only a few questions each, and there was no proficiency involved, you could take 5 minutes or longer on each question if you wanted too. And you could miss all the questions on any particular mode (except morse) and still be able to pass the test.

If you wanted to have 3 questions on the written test about morse, you will get no argument from me. It is another widely used mode, at least with hams. That would make it more equitable with the other modes you mention. Until then, it is lopsided, with special status going to morse, a status it doesn't deserve.

Joe

K0HWY

12-03-2006, 12:12 AM

I don't know what to tell you Joe, other than keep on whining, someone is bound to listen sooner or later. It seems to be a proven tactic, at least in amateur radio. I mean, look what it's done already. Personally, I just can't bring myself to use it. On the other hand, I am a bit old fashioned and many of my ideas about things seem to be antiquated. In fact, it could be that I'm wrong about my position on this issue. Probably my dad's fault. He doesn't like whiners either. I blame him for my "bad" attitude about hard work and meeting challenges. Call me wrong, an old fart or whatever else. But I'm not a whiner.

KI4ITV

12-03-2006, 12:30 AM

I will not upgrade my license until this thread is dropped!
This thread is always wasting my time and bringing me down. I never get any studying done because I am always distracted by this thread.
It is impeading my speedy upgrade!
So drop this thread, it is only in my way, and is not necessary in my pursuit of the hobby.
Thanks for your help.
Sincerely,
Trey Pollard
President, NCTI. (NO CODE THREADS INTERNATIONAL)

ab8ro

12-03-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 01 2006,18:12)]I don't know what to tell you Joe, other than keep on whining, someone is bound to listen sooner or later. It seems to be a proven tactic, at least in amateur radio. I mean, look what it's done already. Personally, I just can't bring myself to use it. On the other hand, I am a bit old fashioned and many of my ideas about things seem to be antiquated. In fact, it could be that I'm wrong about my position on this issue. Probably my dad's fault. He doesn't like whiners either. I blame him for my "bad" attitude about hard work and meeting challenges. # Call me wrong, an old fart or whatever else. But I'm not a whiner.
Joe's not whining. He's stating facts. Besides, he took a code test. But don't let that stop you from patting yourself on the back.

K7JEM

12-03-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 02 2006,17:12)]I don't know what to tell you Joe, other than keep on whining, someone is bound to listen sooner or later. It seems to be a proven tactic, at least in amateur radio. I mean, look what it's done already. Personally, I just can't bring myself to use it. On the other hand, I am a bit old fashioned and many of my ideas about things seem to be antiquated. In fact, it could be that I'm wrong about my position on this issue. Probably my dad's fault. He doesn't like whiners either. I blame him for my "bad" attitude about hard work and meeting challenges. Call me wrong, an old fart or whatever else. But I'm not a whiner.
Too many of you people are quick to label people when they don't agree with you. Whiner, lazy, crybaby, etc, when someone just wants to make a simple change. Yes, it's no big deal, its just a change, will not affect ham radio operation as we know it one iota, except to have a few more people on HF.

I laugh every time I see one of you "newbies" with comments like this, like you are the great white protectors of all things ham related. Get over it, whiners. The die is cast, the code test will be eliminated. You can hope against hope, like when your football team is down 20 points with 3 minutes left. It "could" happen that the FCC decides to keep the code test, but the possibility is remote.

So, get over your whining, accept reality, and go on with your lives, No-one likes a sore loser, which is exactly what most of you have become.

I'll give you some advice. Prepare a response now for the upcoming FCC R&O, something you can shoot right back to them, saying "we don't want the code test dropped, because then we are just CB, boo-hoo-hoo."

I'm sure the FCC will consider that response and reverse themselves.

Joe

KC2ESD

12-03-2006, 12:36 AM

Quote[/b] ]WHEN WILL THE CODE BE DROPPED?

Never for Extras anyway. Right now 160M is hopping with CW for the contest.

K7JEM

12-03-2006, 12:40 AM

Never say never.

Is N7GP or N5NM on 160?

ab8ro

12-03-2006, 12:57 AM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 01 2006,18:34)]You can hope against hope, like when your football team is down 20 points with 3 minutes left. It "could" happen that the FCC decides to keep the code test, but the possibility is remote.
It's the stages of grief repeating themselves over and over again. Denial and anger manifest themselves as name calling and lashing out at no-coders. Bargaining comes in the form of imaginary proposals to the FCC that keep testing in some form. We see acceptance from time to time when a know-coder states that they think the FCC will drop the code.

W5HTW

12-03-2006, 02:29 AM

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 02 2006,17:57)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 01 2006,18:34)]You can hope against hope, like when your football team is down 20 points with 3 minutes left. It "could" happen that the FCC decides to keep the code test, but the possibility is remote.
It's the stages of grief repeating themselves over and over again. Denial and anger manifest themselves as name calling and lashing out at no-coders. Bargaining comes in the form of imaginary proposals to the FCC that keep testing in some form. We see acceptance from time to time when a know-coder states that they think the FCC will drop the code.
I don't agree with the choice of word - "acceptance." The better word would be "inevitable." It is, for example, inevitable some punk will murder someone tonight. Can't say I accept it. But I know it will happen, somewhere within a few states, or a few days in this state.

I do agree the dropping of the Morse testing is inevitable. Can't guess when, but it will happen.

When that happens, then my choice will have to be to accept it, and then that word will be appropriate. But not right now.

What so many people miss in all this, is it really isn't about the code! It is about changing the game rules to fit the person or the people who don't want to play by the current rules. The 'game' could be anything; doesn't have to be amateur radio. It could be horseshoes, for example. Let's put the posts closer together, and use horseshoes with a bigger gap. It could be basket ball; let's shorten the court, and put up three goals at each end, and give every member of the team at least three free throw tries in each five minute period.

What happens is the "let's change it crowd," makes it less appealing. Then they get in and they find, all too often, "this isn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be." Well, of course not! It isn't the same game! You changed it. And so they become "used to be hams." By the many thousands.

I go back to the rock. If I want to climb a 50 foot rock, but then think it would be better if the rock was only 15 feet, and I succeed in getting it whittled down, I may find it wasn't as much fun as it could have been. As BB King sings, "The Thrill Is Gone."

That HAS happened to ham radio. It isn't going to happen. It's already here.

I have no more tests to take. I did it. All of it. Whether I should be proud of that or not is a matter of opinion, and I don't really care. I just know I did it, and that's good enough for me. Clearly knowing one did it is NOT good enough for a huge percentage of today's wantabe (or wanta upgrade) hams. That's their problem.

I am not the new kid on the block saying "Hey, let's change the game so I can play!" I already can play.

But if (when) changes come, I'll still deal with it, because I won't have to take an easier test and brag how I finally "made" it because they FCC made it easier for me TO make it! Not my worry. Never thought much about chopping down hills so I could climb them. I CLIMBED the darn mountain, instead of begging for it to be whittled down. You can level it now, but I know I climbed it when it was more than a minor hill.

That's enough for me! Doesn't work for the new society, though.

Ed

af2cw

12-03-2006, 02:40 AM

Excellent post Ed.

AE6IP

12-03-2006, 02:51 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 02 2006,18:29)]It is about changing the game rules to fit the person or the people who don't want to play by the current rules.

Sorry, that is not what it is about. It's about removing an obsolete requirement from the FCC's licensing requirements.

Quote[/b] ]
That HAS happened to ham radio. It isn't going to happen. It's already here.

Ham radio has never been more, to use your analogy, then a fifteen foot hill. The tests have never been very hard, and Morse Code has never been much of a challenge.

Quote[/b] ]
I CLIMBED the darn mountain, instead of begging for it to be whittled down. You can level it now, but I know I climbed it when it was more than a minor hill.

It has never been more than a minor hill.

After years of listening to this support of fake superiority coming from amateurs, I am finally starting to understand why the leading edge of electronics and communications passed hams by so quickly and so easily forty years ago.

Thanks for the epiphany.

ab8ro

12-03-2006, 03:13 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 01 2006,20:29)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 02 2006,17:57)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 01 2006,18:34)]You can hope against hope, like when your football team is down 20 points with 3 minutes left. It "could" happen that the FCC decides to keep the code test, but the possibility is remote.
It's the stages of grief repeating themselves over and over again. Denial and anger manifest themselves as name calling and lashing out at no-coders. Bargaining comes in the form of imaginary proposals to the FCC that keep testing in some form. We see acceptance from time to time when a know-coder states that they think the FCC will drop the code.
I don't agree with the choice of word - "acceptance."
Doesn't matter Ed. That's the standard langauge. There are five stages to grief and whether you agree or not when you cease to fight the change you have come to acceptance. I'm not going to debate endlessly about the choice of words here. If you don't believe that what hams are doing is acceptance, then it is one of the other four. Sometimes bargaining is disguised as acceptance.

The point is simple. The old guard is going through grief over losing the morse exam. The sooner you accept it, you can move on. If you never accept it then you are free to wallow in the other stages for the rest of your life.

See here (http://www.memorialhospital.org/library/general/stress-THE-3.html)

kd4mxe

12-03-2006, 03:21 AM

well the fcc needs to get going and drop the hammer , so the crying can get in another gear , thats going to Be something here on qrz ,when I Read some of these post I am glad I dont worry about what other People do, lets go fcc I am Ready for that Big topic that will come after the Hammer is droped ,Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kd4mxe

12-03-2006, 03:23 AM

well we did not need 2 one was good enought ,Bill #kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kd4mxe

12-03-2006, 03:34 AM

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 02 2006,20:13)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 01 2006,20:29)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Dec. 02 2006,17:57)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 01 2006,18:34)]You can hope against hope, like when your football team is down 20 points with 3 minutes left. It "could" happen that the FCC decides to keep the code test, but the possibility is remote.
It's the stages of grief repeating themselves over and over again. Denial and anger manifest themselves as name calling and lashing out at no-coders. Bargaining comes in the form of imaginary proposals to the FCC that keep testing in some form. #We see acceptance from time to time when #a know-coder states that they think the FCC will drop the code.
I don't agree with the choice of word - "acceptance."
Doesn't matter Ed. That's the standard langauge. There are five stages to grief and whether you agree or not when you cease to fight the change you have come to acceptance. I'm not going to debate endlessly about the choice of words here. If you don't believe that what hams are doing is acceptance, then it is one of the other four. Sometimes bargaining is disguised as acceptance.

See here (http://www.memorialhospital.org/library/general/stress-THE-3.html)
ab8ro-The point is simple. The old guard is going through grief over losing the morse exam. The sooner you accept it, you can move on. If you never accept it then you are free to wallow in the other stages for the rest of your life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------did you ever hit the nail on the Head here ,some of these old goats will take this to the grave with them ,73 Bill kd4mxe

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ky5u

12-03-2006, 04:59 AM

K7JEM

12-03-2006, 05:24 AM

Charlie's posts are always insightful and full of wit.

Of course he never says anything pertaining to actual facts in the debate, just appeals to his groupies.

I'm sure his pictures will really boost people wanting to side with him.

"Of course, I never thought of it that way. The no-coders are just crybabies. Why didn't someone just come out and say that? I had to see the picture to fully understand the nuances of what this debate is all about".

Joe

W2ILP

12-03-2006, 05:25 AM

This has become a political subject. #The FCC is able to change the band frequecy limits...but entirely doing away with Morse Code tests is much more political. #The FCC is, after all, a government authority...and as such is controlled by congress...which means that a major change may require review by a congressional committee. #At the present time there are many congressional committes ...so amateur radio has low priority and it has probably been shelved for the future when drastic changes may be blamed on Democrats rather than lame duck Republicans.

Getting rid of the CW exams is not favored by the OT hams or most of their ham clubs. #OTs want to keep the status quo and not grant any priviligaes to youngsters who don't have to earn them by passing the same tests that they did. #The majority of people who are interested in FCC amateur regulations are the amateurs themselves. #Non-hams don't know much about ham test and could care less. #The ARRL may want to do away with ham exam CW requirements in the hopes that it will enabled more people to get ham licenses..and thus make money from more ARRL memberships and more advertising revenue...BUT the majority of hams are now OTs and OTs generally want the status quo. #Politicians want to please their constituents....especially when it comes to a hobby like ham radio, where changes in regulations cost the government little or nothing. #Tests are given by volunteers and their organizations (VEs and VECs)....So the basis for change must come from the OT hams who happen to be the politician's own constituents. # If they receive only a few letters that strongly ask to keep the CW requirement this could be a reason for delay and further study.

These opinion are all those of W2ILP, and are only guesses. #The delay may just be because the ARRL had not had enough money to hire Abramoff as a consultant or lobbyist or didn't want to get involved with non-amaterish lobbying pork barrels or ear marks. # I dunno fer sure.

w2ilp (Independently Lobby Politicians)....but in my opinion at some time in the future there will no longer be a CW exam requirement....probably after the Iraqi army is "well trained" and the troops can come home..

ab8ro

12-03-2006, 05:27 AM

Nice spelling job there charlie. Cry and whine all you like, that's what people in grief do.

Haha, you guys need some group therapy.

K7JEM

12-03-2006, 05:45 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 02 2006,19:29)]

What so many people miss in all this, is it really isn't about the code! It is about changing the game rules to fit the person or the people who don't want to play by the current rules. The 'game' could be anything; doesn't have to be amateur radio. It could be horseshoes, for example. Let's put the posts closer together, and use horseshoes with a bigger gap. It could be basket ball; let's shorten the court, and put up three goals at each end, and give every member of the team at least three free throw tries in each five minute period.

What happens is the "let's change it crowd," makes it less appealing. Then they get in and they find, all too often, "this isn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be." Well, of course not! It isn't the same game! You changed it. And so they become "used to be hams." By the many thousands.
First of all, ham radio isn't a game. It's not even competitive. A lot of people think it is, and therein lies the problem. They don't want ANYONE getting some perceived privilege without doing EXACTLY what they had to do.

So what does this change really amount to? Nothing. Nothing at all will change after the code test is dropped, except more people will be on HF. Thats it. No other changes. The people won't be any "dumber" just because they haven't passed a code test, simply because the code doesn't make you any smarter. It doesn't help you a lick in a "radio" hobby, since telegraphy can be sent better over a landline, just as it was done back in 1860. If there would be some harm to the hobby, it would have been pointed out. But it will cause no harm to the hobby, simply because IT CAN'T. If you think otherwise, present your argument for debate, and it can't be a picture of an animal, crying baby, or anything else that is simply derogatory in nature.

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 02 2006,19:29)]

I go back to the rock. If I want to climb a 50 foot rock, but then think it would be better if the rock was only 15 feet, and I succeed in getting it whittled down, I may find it wasn't as much fun as it could have been. As BB King sings, "The Thrill Is Gone."

That HAS happened to ham radio. It isn't going to happen. It's already here.

But this is nothing like that. Why would any thrill change to you because of a licensing change? You already have an extra, nowhere else to go. You work mainly CW, so any new people on HF aren't going to bother you, unless they WANT to work CW. So what is your beef? That some other person might now be able to get an HF license without knowing the code? So what, this isn't like letting the Mongols invade, they are people just like us, but they won't have to learn an antiquated art. Big deal.

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 02 2006,19:29)]

I have no more tests to take. I did it. All of it. Whether I should be proud of that or not is a matter of opinion, and I don't really care. I just know I did it, and that's good enough for me. Clearly knowing one did it is NOT good enough for a huge percentage of today's wantabe (or wanta upgrade) hams. That's their problem.

I am not the new kid on the block saying "Hey, let's change the game so I can play!" I already can play.

But if (when) changes come, I'll still deal with it, because I won't have to take an easier test and brag how I finally "made" it because they FCC made it easier for me TO make it! Not my worry. Never thought much about chopping down hills so I could climb them. I CLIMBED the darn mountain, instead of begging for it to be whittled down. You can level it now, but I know I climbed it when it was more than a minor hill.

That's enough for me! Doesn't work for the new society, though.

Ed

Well then yo can just tell the new people on the radio how great you are. You took a real test, you are on top. They are way down here, they didn't climb the "mountain" like you did. They used an elevator. You are great and good, and I'm sure all the new hams will be able to see this, and worship you as they see fit.

Joe

K0HWY

12-03-2006, 06:32 AM

And what would be the point in all of that Joe? You're whining again.

When the no coders get on the air, those of us who are pro code won't be there to wave our "status" in their face. We'll be kind of like the guys now. Sure, some of them do, but the majority of them seem to understand that it's not our fault we didn't have to work as hard to earn our ticket. Like them, those of us who had to test will accept the change; AFTER IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS... and we'll keep doing our thing as best we can under the circumstances. There'll be little drama from us; sorry to disappoint you.

Truthfully, I don't think this will have as negative an impact on HF as some anticipate. First, as someone has already pointed out, ham radio isn't as popular as it once was. There are many other distractions that are much less of a headache. Secondly, HF equipment costs money. I suspect many would be trouble makers will be discouraged by this. I really doubt the degree of ugliness is going to be as bad as some think. But, I have been wrong before.

K0HWY

12-03-2006, 06:34 AM

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Dec. 02 2006,21:29)]What so many people miss in all this, is it really isn't about the code! It is about changing the game rules to fit the person or the people who don't want to play by the current rules. The 'game' could be anything; doesn't have to be amateur radio. It could be horseshoes, for example. Let's put the posts closer together, and use horseshoes with a bigger gap. It could be basket ball; let's shorten the court, and put up three goals at each end, and give every member of the team at least three free throw tries in each five minute period.

What happens is the "let's change it crowd," makes it less appealing. Then they get in and they find, all too often, "this isn't as much fun as I thought it was going to be." Well, of course not! It isn't the same game! You changed it. And so they become "used to be hams." By the many thousands.

Ed
This sums it up better than I ever could. Bravo Ed.

K7JEM

12-03-2006, 06:52 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 02 2006,23:32)]And what would be the point in all of that Joe? You're whining again.

When the no coders get on the air, those of us who are pro code won't be there to wave our "status" in their face. We'll be kind of like the guys now. Sure, some of them do, but the majority of them seem to understand that it's not our fault we didn't have to work as hard to earn our ticket. Like them, those of us who had to test will accept the change; AFTER IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS... and we'll keep doing our thing as best we can under the circumstances. There'll be little drama from us; sorry to disappoint you.

Truthfully, I don't think this will have as negative an impact on HF as some anticipate. First, as someone has already pointed out, ham radio isn't as popular as it once was. There are many other distractions that are much less of a headache. Secondly, HF equipment costs money. I suspect many would be trouble makers will be discouraged by this. I really doubt the degree of ugliness is going to be as bad as some think. But, I have been wrong before.
No, you are correct. There will be very little drama. That is my point. Nothing will change. There may be some animosity from some existing hams, but most won't care. They will continue to welcome and mentor newcomers, as it should be. What happens after the code test is dropped is what will really separate the men from the boys.

You are part of the "new" ham generation. You didn't have to work as hard to get your extra as many did. Does that make you less of a ham? I think not. There will be some who will look down on you, as if they are somehow superior. The whole ham radio test thing is a joke anyway. It's just never been very difficult, and it isn't something that is really that important. To think that someone somehow had it so difficult is just not accurate. There have been 8 year old kids getting general or higher licenses for many decades, it simply has never been that hard.

Joe

K7JEM

12-03-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Dec. 02 2006,22:25)]This has become a political subject. The FCC is able to change the band frequecy limits...but entirely doing away with Morse Code tests is much more political. The FCC is, after all, a government authority...and as such is controlled by congress...which means that a major change may require review by a congressional committee. At the present time there are many congressional committes ...so amateur radio has low priority and it has probably been shelved for the future when drastic changes may be blamed on Democrats rather than lame duck Republicans.

Getting rid of the CW exams is not favored by the OT hams or most of their ham clubs. OTs want to keep the status quo and not grant any priviligaes to youngsters who don't have to earn them by passing the same tests that they did. The majority of people who are interested in FCC amateur regulations are the amateurs themselves. Non-hams don't know much about ham test and could care less. The ARRL may want to do away with ham exam CW requirements in the hopes that it will enabled more people to get ham licenses..and thus make money from more ARRL memberships and more advertising revenue...BUT the majority of hams are now OTs and OTs generally want the status quo. Politicians want to please their constituents....especially when it comes to a hobby like ham radio, where changes in regulations cost the government little or nothing. Tests are given by volunteers and their organizations (VEs and VECs)....So the basis for change must come from the OT hams who happen to be the politician's own constituents. If they receive only a few letters that strongly ask to keep the CW requirement this could be a reason for delay and further study.

These opinion are all those of W2ILP, and are only guesses. The delay may just be because the ARRL had not had enough money to hire Abramoff as a consultant or lobbyist or didn't want to get involved with non-amaterish lobbying pork barrels or ear marks. I dunno fer sure.

w2ilp (Independently Lobby Politicians)....but in my opinion at some time in the future there will no longer be a CW exam requirement....probably after the Iraqi army is "well trained" and the troops can come home..
The decision has already been made, there is no congressional intervention that will be coming. The cavalry is not on the hill.

You can all write your congressmen until you're blue in the face, but his response will either be "What's morse code?" or "You still test for that?".

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Joe

KI4QFY

12-03-2006, 11:48 AM

.. | .-.. .. -.- . | -- --- .-. ... . | -.-. --- -.. .

ai4ep

12-03-2006, 01:01 PM

QUESTION ---- on a hf net ( say, some where on 20 / 40 / 80 meters / etc ), is it legal to identify your station in CW, even when net control is using voice ?

...just a simple question...no harm intended.

kd4mxe

12-03-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 03 2006,06:01)]QUESTION ---- on a hf net ( say, some where on 20 / 40 / 80 meters / etc ), is it legal to identify your station in CW, even when net control is using voice ?

...just a simple question...no harm intended.
(well #it #should #Be legal But you would make a lot of people mad , and thats my opinion only,it would not do #any harm #to me Because if I could not #Read it #I would not care #who you was anyway,, and I am not that #hooked on nets , #you could try it one time #and see , 73 Bill kd4mxe #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

W5HTW

12-03-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 03 2006,06:01)]QUESTION ---- on a hf net ( say, some where on 20 / 40 / 80 meters / etc ), is it legal to identify your station in CW, even when net control is using voice ?

...just a simple question...no harm intended.
Yes. It is entirely legal. Happens frequently, in fact.

It may be that the net control can't copy code well enough to figure out who you are, but that has nothing to do with the legality of it.

Ed

KI4QFY

12-03-2006, 03:45 PM

FCC says a station ID every 10 and at the end. As CW is required for HF, then Id say a CW ID would suffice. On 2m, maybe better to stick with phone, however a CW ID would be legal also (think: repeater IDs are CW). This is my opinin from a casual review of 97. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ky5u

12-03-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 02 2006,22:24)]Charlie's posts are always insightful and full of wit.

Of course he never says anything pertaining to actual facts in the debate, just appeals to his groupies.

I'm sure his pictures will really boost people wanting to side with him.

"Of course, I never thought of it that way. The no-coders are just crybabies. Why didn't someone just come out and say that? I had to see the picture to fully understand the nuances of what this debate is all about".

Joe
You and RO are quite a team! But which is which?

kd4mxe

12-03-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 03 2006,12:57)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 02 2006,22:24)]Charlie's posts are always insightful and full of wit.

Of course he never says anything pertaining to actual facts in the debate, just appeals to his groupies.

I'm sure his pictures will really boost people wanting to side with him.

"Of course, I never thought of it that way. The no-coders are just crybabies. Why didn't someone just come out and say that? I had to see the picture to fully understand the nuances of what this debate is all about".

Joe
?
ag4yo -You and RO are quite a team! But which is which-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------- mr charlie where do you come up with all this stuff ,you are a stuff nower ,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ky5u

12-03-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Dec. 03 2006,13:35)]mr charlie where do you come up with all this stuff ,you are a stuff nower ,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Oh heck. Just like pictures I guess. Joe, Daryl, and I are just having a little net reflector fun. Never take this too seriously. Anyway, how goes the HF fun on your end?

ai4ep

12-03-2006, 10:23 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # Ok thank you all for the fast responses...reason I asked is --- on some nets ( especially on 75 meters ) there will be some folks who DO use this method to " check - in " to the nets...........for whatever reasons, and I was just a-waondering #abowt it all.

Ok folks, carry on wif yer rat-killin... on a chilly Sunday afternoon in Decimber in Alabamy. # # # # # # # # # # # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

kd4mxe

12-04-2006, 01:49 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 03 2006,14:47)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Dec. 03 2006,13:35)]mr charlie where do you come up with all this #stuff ,you are a stuff nower ,73 Bill kd4mxe #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ag4yo -Oh heck. Just like pictures I guess. Joe, Daryl, and I are just having a little net reflector fun. Never take this too seriously. Anyway, how goes the HF fun on your end?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------(ok you can come up with some good ones thats for sure ,and I dont take this stuff that seriously all this stuff is just a game to me , and hf well I am enjoying it But Right now I am helping my son he is a general now and got to get him on the air to ,are you still on the A M side of 80m I heard you check into the mullet net ,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ky5u

12-04-2006, 04:45 AM

Yes sir, I am on AM most every day early in the AM and on Tues and Thurs on nets on 3885 at around 6PM. Other than that its alot of CW. Glad to hear you're on the air. Maybe we can try a schedule to work each other.

N2RJ

12-04-2006, 06:28 AM

Quote[/b] (kb0mmb @ Nov. 18 2006,23:00)]Im ready to take the test for General class and DO NOT have the time or desire to study the code..which I will NEVER use in 5 lifetimes...I enjoy talking on 2-70 cm and have NO desire to sit there and hit a little key all day!
So..when will it happen?
You already have HF privileges which don't need any code.

There is a band between 26.965 - 27.405 MHz which is available for you. NO code required.

Just be sure to observe the power limit of 4w (AM) and 12w (SSB).

73

N2RJ

12-04-2006, 06:33 AM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 03 2006,01:59)]The decision has already been made, there is no congressional intervention that will be coming. The cavalry is not on the hill.

You can all write your congressmen until you're blue in the face, but his response will either be "What's morse code?" or "You still test for that?".

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Joe
You keep saying this like it's a fact outside of your own imagination.

The fact is that mo decision has been made, only a proposal, which has been put out for public comment and review. The FCC has not handed down any final decision yet.

Even NCI is lobbying to have the FCC act on its proposal and not change its mind, which the FCC is fully entitled to do at this point.

I don't know where you keep getting this nonsense that a final decision has been made. You must be referring to the radio regulations of another country or another planet, not the United States of America here on planet Earth.

K7JEM

12-04-2006, 06:58 AM

The FCC can change its mind at any point. They could implement the rule, then rescind it days or years later.

The NPRM is a proposal, which is a decision, albeit preliminary. It is not as if this is not on the table, and final rules being considered. I can see how it is not a "final" decision, but it is a decision in the direction they want to be heading.

Joe

AE6IP

12-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Dec. 03 2006,22:33)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 03 2006,01:59)]The decision has already been made, there is no congressional intervention that will be coming. The cavalry is not on the hill.

You can all write your congressmen until you're blue in the face, but his response will either be "What's morse code?" or "You still test for that?".

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Joe
You keep saying this like it's a fact outside of your own imagination.

The fact is that mo decision has been made, only a proposal, which has been put out for public comment and review. The FCC has not handed down any final decision yet.

Even NCI is lobbying to have the FCC act on its proposal and not change its mind, which the FCC is fully entitled to do at this point.

I don't know where you keep getting this nonsense that a final decision has been made. You must be referring to the radio regulations of another country or another planet, not the United States of America here on planet Earth.
It's not that simple.

The FCC can only change its mind if there is a legal reason for it to do so. It has clearly made the case for dropping element 1 in the NPRM, and while it has to evaluate all of the responses to the NPRM before it releases the R&O, the reality is that no new arguments were made in the responses.

To change its mind, the FCC would have to find a reason to reverse its finding that element 1 serves no regulatory purpose, as that finding invokes federal law that requires them to remove regulatory burden that serves no regulatory purpose.

The only option left at this point would be legislation dictating maintaining element 1, which is even less likely than the FCC finding a reason to reverse its finding, which itself is less likely than detecting a neutrino with a geiger counter.

kd4mxe

12-04-2006, 01:32 PM

well I dont know when they will ,But get Ready for the fire works,when the fcc drops the Hammer on that code Requierment, I am looking forward to this ,the way some have showed there Butt,s so for with name calling and other ways of lo rateing others ,I can only guess what will happen ,But qrz will Be Busy thats for sure ,Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

N2RJ

12-04-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 04 2006,01:58)]The FCC can change its mind at any point. They could implement the rule, then rescind it days or years later.

The NPRM is a proposal, which is a decision, albeit preliminary. It is not as if this is not on the table, and final rules being considered. I can see how it is not a "final" decision, but it is a decision in the direction they want to be heading.

Joe
A proposal is not a decision. If it were a decision then it would not be out for comment and review.

The R&O is a decision, which has NOT happened yet.

Again, you are either ignorant of these facts or trying to fool people.

w5alt

12-04-2006, 03:08 PM

A comparison of the recent R&O and the NPRM that led to it is an interesting study of how the FCC doesn't change things from one to the other.

My net conclusion: We'll have to wait and see.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

K7JEM

12-04-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 04 2006,08:08)]A comparison of the recent R&O and the NPRM that led to it is an interesting study of how the FCC doesn't change things from one to the other.

My net conclusion: We'll have to wait and see.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
I don't disagree. We won't know until the R&O is released. But the direction is very clear, even if the exact implementation is not. The latest R&O didn't really veer too much from the "direction" of the NPRM, although there were changes.

The final rules could be anything, but will probably follow closely with the initial decision. Some possibilities are either to retain code for extra, or allow techs some sort of HF priviledge. Neither one of these is LIKELY to occur, but could happen. The most probable thing, and the thing that most people will agree with, is that the FCC will almost surely drop the code for general, at a minimum. Even die hard code supporters realize this.

Joe

K0HWY

12-04-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Dec. 04 2006,08:32)]well I dont know when they will ,But get Ready for the fire works,when the fcc drops the Hammer on that code Requierment, I am looking forward to this ,the way some have showed there Butt,s so for with name calling and other ways of lo rateing others ,I can only guess what will happen ,But qrz will Be Busy thats for sure ,Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Don't get your hopes up Bill. I doubt it's going to to be that dramatic when it happens. Of course, there are probably ways to stir the pot to make it happen if you want to. But I doubt the dropping of Element 1 itself will be enough to cause the circus you're wanting to see.

ai4ep

12-04-2006, 06:46 PM

Hey... I just noticed something.

Never mind.

ky5u

12-05-2006, 12:24 AM

New meter for no coders...

kd4mxe

12-05-2006, 02:32 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 04 2006,09:23)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Dec. 04 2006,08:32)]well I dont know when they will ,But get Ready #for the fire works,when the fcc #drops the #Hammer on that #code #Requierment, I am looking #forward to this ,the way some have #showed there Butt,s so for with #name calling and other ways of lo rateing #others ,I can only guess what will #happen ,But #qrz #will Be #Busy #thats for sure ,Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Don't get your hopes up Bill. I doubt it's going to to be that dramatic when it happens. Of course, there are probably ways to stir the pot to make it happen if you want to. But I doubt the dropping of Element 1 itself will be enough to cause the circus you're wanting to see.
k0hwy- yes you are Right I am just looking at how some of these people get all Bent out of the socket about this stuff,But i believe in the end its all about change it,s going to change like it or not gripe or complain all you want to , if you live long enought for the fcc to do their thing it will Be gone , I am Ready when they get Ready, what good would it do for me to get on here and show my Butt and lo Rate others when I cant do anything aBout it ,the fcc is a lot Bigger than I am ,its sad that some of the old timers dose not want to let it go , But in the end they will go with it or stay Behind and cry about it ,But there will Be no tear drops on this side, 73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

AE6IP

12-05-2006, 03:51 AM

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Dec. 04 2006,07:08)]A comparison of the recent R&O and the NPRM that led to it is an interesting study of how the FCC doesn't change things from one to the other.

My net conclusion: We'll have to wait and see.

73,
Walt, W5ALT
Apples and Oranges, Walt.

The refarming responses raised new issues and the FCC took them into account. The responses to the element 1 NPRM raised no new issues and the FCC very rarely writes an R&O different from the NPRM in those cases.

w6dce

12-05-2006, 12:24 PM

K0HWY

12-05-2006, 01:21 PM

I think it would be more applicable to look at past changes in amateur radio and compare it with those. Like dropping the code requirement for Technicians and reducing it for the others. Now, it's behind us and we've moved on. The same will be the case if the code element is removed completely. However, as someone else pointed out, amateur radio will undergo a change that will have a major and negative impact on how those on the outside view the hobby. That's why you see all the opposition right now. Some of us feel strongly that this is exactly what's going to happen. Once it's done though, there'll be only one thing to do. Deal with it and move on. I wish I had upgraded earlier, when getting to where I am now required more effort. But, I'm glad I did it in 2006... when it required a little effort. I'd say by 2009, there will be little if any testing for amateur radio. It'll be open to anyone who has the time to dedicate and the money to spend. And that's a big 10-4.

kd4mxe

12-05-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 05 2006,06:21)]I think it would be more applicable to look at past changes in amateur radio and compare it with those. Like dropping the code requirement for Technicians and reducing it for the others. Now, it's behind us and we've moved on. The same will be the case if the code element is removed completely. However, as someone else pointed out, amateur radio will undergo a change that will have a major and negative impact on how those on the outside view the hobby. That's why you see all the opposition right now. Some of us feel strongly that this is exactly what's going to happen. Once it's done though, there'll be only one thing to do. Deal with it and move on. I wish I had upgraded earlier, when getting to where I am now required more effort. But, I'm glad I did it in 2006... when it required a little effort. I'd say by
k0hwy-2009, there will be little if any testing for amateur radio. It'll be open to anyone who has the time to dedicate and the money to spend. And that's a big 10-4.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------(well you could Be Right there ,But in that time change will take Place again so it,s just a Repeat of years past time dose not stand still it gose on ,what ever happens I will live with it till the lord calls me out of this old world ,even we change we are young then we get older and older until we die our Body changes every year , and if you are not old enought to feel the change , just hang around a few years and you will feel that change, and thats another Big 10-4 , 73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K7JEM

12-05-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 05 2006,06:21)]I think it would be more applicable to look at past changes in amateur radio and compare it with those. Like dropping the code requirement for Technicians and reducing it for the others. Now, it's behind us and we've moved on. The same will be the case if the code element is removed completely. However, as someone else pointed out, amateur radio will undergo a change that will have a major and negative impact on how those on the outside view the hobby. That's why you see all the opposition right now. Some of us feel strongly that this is exactly what's going to happen. Once it's done though, there'll be only one thing to do. Deal with it and move on. I wish I had upgraded earlier, when getting to where I am now required more effort. But, I'm glad I did it in 2006... when it required a little effort. I'd say by 2009, there will be little if any testing for amateur radio. It'll be open to anyone who has the time to dedicate and the money to spend. And that's a big 10-4.
You are mostly correct. Just as in the past, when the changes are made, most hams will accept them and go on. But there will be no negative impact on the hobby, and people from outside the hobby won't think any less of us, because they don't know what morse code is, and they don't know that it is used on the ham bands.

The CB reference is more FUD, won't happen.Some
oldtimers place YOU as one of the CB crowd, are you?

Joe

ai4ep

12-05-2006, 02:33 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Does this mean that " after " the morse code requirement is dropped ( at least for the GENERAL class license ), that we will be hearing more statements on the radio like --- " that is a big 10 - 4 " ......" what is your twenty " ..."for sure, for sure "...and other things ?

Just be sure to give all the folks who do not have to pass the morse code requirement a special call sign ( 4 letters, then 4 numbers ) so that they can have that " special " distinction that they so rightly deserve ( sarcasm ) .

( edited to remove all vulgarity )

kd4mxe

12-05-2006, 02:40 PM

what every one had Better Be glad of is that you are still here to see this change ,one day you wont Be here to see any changes , when you die the changes will Be over for you ,every day I think the lord I am still here to see this Change , and hope to see another change ,I will like it to ,enjoy what you have while you have it ,you may not have it long , Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ky5u

12-05-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,05:24)]Are you kidding me? Look at the circus that has occurred here on this site from just the decussion of the possibility of it happening..
Another genius that can't tell the difference between the Internet and Amateur Radio. Here's your picture... any questions?

K0HWY

12-05-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Dec. 05 2006,09:27)]Some oldtimers place YOU as one of the CB crowd, are you?

Joe
Which old timers?

I don't know about that anyway but I can do a very good Roscoe impersonation. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ky5u

12-05-2006, 02:59 PM

K0HWY

12-05-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Dec. 05 2006,09:40)]what every #one had Better Be #glad of #is that you #are still #here #to see #this # change ,one day you wont Be here to see #any changes , when you die #the changes will Be over for you ,every day I think the lord I am #still here to see this Change , and hope to see another change ,I will like it to ,enjoy what you have while you have it ,you may not #have it long , Bill kd4mxe #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Bill,

Do you really think heaven is going to be all that bad? That we'll actually be thinking about how much we miss amateur radio? I think not.

K0HWY

12-05-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,09:59)]There is a big difference between "moving on" and "improving" Amateur Radio. #No doubt we'll "move on". #It still gets back to the question of how do you make Amateur Radio better by admitting unmotivated people?

Glad you did what you did this year too. #You'll always have that satisfaction.
You're right Charlie, there is a huge difference. We'll accept but the direction in which we are heading is not going to make amateur radio better. In fact, I believe it will ultimately destroy the hobby as we know it. There'll still be activity on the HF bands. But it will likely be like a Saturday night in a dirt floor bar room.

kd4mxe

12-05-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,07:54)]Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,05:24)]Are you kidding me? #Look at the circus that has occurred here on this site from just the decussion of the possibility of it happening..
Another genius that can't tell the difference between the Internet and Amateur Radio. Here's your picture... any questions?
mr charlie you know your stuff on that ,attached Image stuff,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kd4mxe

12-05-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 05 2006,07:59)]Quote[/b] (kd4mxe @ Dec. 05 2006,09:40)]what every #one had Better Be #glad of #is that you #are still #here #to see #this # change ,one day you wont Be here to see #any changes , when you die #the changes will Be over for you ,every day I think the lord I am #still here to see this Change , and hope to see another change ,I will like it to ,enjoy what you have while you have it ,you may not #have it long , Bill kd4mxe #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Bill,
k0hwy-Do you really think heaven is going to be all that bad? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------no sir #I sure do not #think it,s going to Be #Bad it,s going to Be #good , even tho this place we live in #is not as good as heaven I would like to live here a while longer #But when the lord calls me I hope I am heaven Bound ,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------k0hmy-That we'll actually be thinking about how much we miss amateur radio? I think not.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------(no sir you wont Be thinking of #ham #Radio , you will Be thinking of one or #2 things ( #no=1 - thank you lord ) or ( no=2 #lord please let me go Back and #change my life )#it will Be to late #when you die , In heaven or Hell you will not have any need for Ham Radio 73 Bill kd4mxe ---------------no=1http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif ----no=2 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

kd4mxe

12-05-2006, 05:09 PM

K8YZK

12-05-2006, 05:12 PM

Hopefully never. If you worked towards the theory, a little more work towards CW is not that hard, 5 wpm might seem hard now but a couple of weeks of learning/pratice and you should have it.

Yes you might not use it in 3 life times, but then again maybe you will use it.

ky5u

12-05-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote[/b] (K8YZK @ Dec. 05 2006,10:12)]Hopefully never. If you worked towards the theory, a little more work towards CW is not that hard, 5 wpm might seem hard now but a couple of weeks of learning/pratice and you should have it.

Yes you might not use it in 3 life times, but then again maybe you will use it.
The amazing thing is the number of Amateurs who admit without the CW test they probably would have never discovered the joy of CW. The code kept me out for years (as well as life's happenings), but when I buckled down and studied after 30 years of excuses, I was suprised how much I enjoyed it.

So when I passed the test, I bought a key with my rig and decided to try 1 CW QSO per day. That's all it took. It's still my favorite mode. Yet in all of that I was pretty shure I was alone in finding out my enjoyment of CW from being FORCED to learn it. Not so. It did not take long to discover more folks who had the same experience.

One of my sons took statistics in college and was able to do several small surveys for me for class credit. Some of the conclusions are not what no coders want to hear:

1. A good number of people come to CW do so by way of having to pass the test. Therefore removing the test will result in a certain amount of degradation in the CW ranks.

2. People who use CW regularly show on the air traits when using "phone" that tend to show they are better operators. Patience, good form, friendliness, etc.

3. People who show traits of being bad operators such as rudeness on the air, bad language, etc. were found to be from the group that never use CW after passing the test.

4. Many of the worst offenders on local repeaters in three cities tested were found to have tried to pass the code test and failed. This could simply be bad attitude in general accounting for both activities.

5. Young people between the ages of 18-24 who were interested in technical fields were interested in computers. He did not find one Ham or any person intrest in radio in general.

6. Apart from Amateur Radio, the general impression of Morse Code was that it was old but it was considered "cool". The #1 and #2 reason was that it was simple and "secret".

7. The people surveyed thought radio itself was a "done deal" as far as being obsolete. Over 98% said entertainment radio of any kind would not be here in 10 years.

The class involved was concerned with the questions and conduction of the survey, not necessarily the statistical relevence. Yet the results showed that the subject was worth more exploration. I sent info to the ARRL "black hole" and never received a reply. It seems they can spend $25K to replace all the antennas at W1AW when only one was actually broken, but they can't find money to conduct surveys that might help set realistic goals.

KC0NBW

12-05-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,11:37)]#I sent info to the ARRL "black hole" and never received a reply. It seems they can spend $25K to replace all the antennas at W1AW when only one was actually broken, but they can't find money to conduct surveys that might help set realistic goals.
i wish the league would share some of their old antennas and rigs with those of us living on limited incomes! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

ai4ep

12-05-2006, 09:26 PM

" limited incomes " ? To my knowledge every one is on a " limited income " ( even millionaires ).

KC0NBW

12-05-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 05 2006,14:26)]" limited incomes " ? #To my knowledge every one is on a " limited income " ( even millionaires ).
my "limited income" is just barely above federal poverty level and is exactly the same for every month of the year.

if i wasn't a thrifty(spelled "cheap") scotsman, i would not be able to make it through the year ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

N8CPA

12-06-2006, 01:10 AM

Quote[/b] (KC0NBW @ Dec. 05 2006,17:45)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 05 2006,14:26)]" limited incomes " ? #To my knowledge every one is on a " limited income " ( even millionaires ).
my "limited income" is just barely above federal poverty level and is exactly the same for every month of the year.

if i wasn't a thrifty(spelled "cheap") scotsman, i would not be able to make it through the year ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
I'm in the same boat. Since my income got fixed, I'm the one who's broke!

ai4ep

12-06-2006, 02:34 AM

...so what you gonna pawn off first... your radios or your computer ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

K0HWY

12-06-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,13:37)]The amazing thing is the number of Amateurs who admit without the CW test they probably would have never discovered the joy of CW. #The code kept me out for years (as well as life's happenings), but when I buckled down and studied after 30 years of excuses, I was suprised how much I enjoyed it. #
Same here. I wouldn't have picked up code if it hadn't been a requirement for licensing. After the leraning pains, I found it was actually very enjoyable and it soon became my favorite mode. Due to my inactivity (which will hopefully change soon), my speed leveled off at around 15 wpm but after not using it for so long, I've found my current comfort level to be at just over 10 wpm. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to improve on that in the near future.

K7JEM

12-06-2006, 04:04 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,11:37)]Quote[/b] (K8YZK @ Dec. 05 2006,10:12)]Hopefully never. If you worked towards the theory, a little more work towards CW is not that hard, 5 wpm might seem hard now but a couple of weeks of learning/pratice and you should have it.

Yes you might not use it in 3 life times, but then again maybe you will use it.
The amazing thing is the number of Amateurs who admit without the CW test they probably would have never discovered the joy of CW. #The code kept me out for years (as well as life's happenings), but when I buckled down and studied after 30 years of excuses, I was suprised how much I enjoyed it. #

So when I passed the test, I bought a key with my rig and decided to try 1 CW QSO per day. #That's all it took. #It's still my favorite mode. #Yet in all of that I was pretty shure I was alone in finding out my enjoyment of CW from being FORCED to learn it. #Not so. It did not take long to discover more folks who had the same experience.

One of my sons took statistics in college and was able to do several small surveys for me for class credit. #Some of the conclusions are not what no coders want to hear:

1. A good number of people come to CW do so by way of having to pass the test. #Therefore removing the test will result in a certain amount of degradation in the CW ranks.

2. People who use CW regularly show on the air traits when using "phone" that tend to show they are better operators. #Patience, good form, friendliness, etc.

3. People who show traits of being bad operators such as rudeness on the air, bad language, etc. were found to be from the group that never use CW after passing the test.

4. Many of the worst offenders on local repeaters in three cities tested were found to have tried to pass the code test and failed. #This could simply be bad attitude in general accounting for both activities.

5. Young people between the ages of 18-24 who were interested in technical fields were interested in computers. #He did not find one Ham or any person intrest in radio in general.

6. Apart from Amateur Radio, the general impression of Morse Code was that it was old but it was considered "cool". The #1 and #2 reason was that it was simple and "secret".

7. The people surveyed thought radio itself was a "done deal" as far as being obsolete. #Over 98% said entertainment radio of any kind would not be here in 10 years.

The class involved was concerned with the questions and conduction of the survey, not necessarily the statistical relevence. #Yet the results showed that the subject was worth more exploration. #I sent info to the ARRL "black hole" and never received a reply. It seems they can spend $25K to replace all the antennas at W1AW when only one was actually broken, but they can't find money to conduct surveys that might help set realistic goals.
The test is not here to get people interested in the code, thats not its purpose. If it was, the FCC would also require us to use code to some extent. They don't. They used to require you to sign a statement on renewal that you could still pass the code at the speed that you were tested at. They haven't required that for 25 years or so.

If people get interested in the code, then that is their choice, but it is no reason to keep the code test.

Regarding you statistical observations, comments on the numbered issues:

1.True, but it doesn't matter, since that is not the purpose, and the FCC doesn't require us to ever use code. See above.

2. This is subjective at best, and totally non provable at worst. The FCC doesn't believe it, see NPRM.

3. But they passed the test. If this were true, and I'm not conceding that point, it just proves that it is using the code that gets this benefit, apparently not the code test itself.

4. Again, not conceding the point, but so what? Many people fail the code test, then later pass it. Maybe this shows that people that TRY to pass the test are bad ops. That would be another logical conclusion.

5. Not surprising, since hams are only .2% of the general population, and the average age is above 50.

6. It is cool because it is quaint. Like a model T. If you drive a model T to a high school, see how many kids run out to look at it compared to a 2001 Chevy Cavalier. Secret is not a part of ham radio, specifically prohibited to attempt to obscure meaning.

7. This may or may not be true. Pay TV was supposed to decimate movies, predicted in the early 70's. Cassette tapes were going to kill the recording industry, VHS tapes were going to kill the movie industry. TV was predicted to kill radio in the 1940's. AM radio was all but left for dead, but does well now. FM radio licenses are going for all time high prices.

Perhaps surveys should be in order, but to be valid, they can't have "spin" attached to them.

The ARRL probably should fund some surveys of the general population, and use that info wisely, without adding political spin. That part probably won't happen.

Joe

K7JEM

12-06-2006, 04:07 AM

Quote[/b] (K0HWY @ Dec. 05 2006,19:35)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,13:37)]The amazing thing is the number of Amateurs who admit without the CW test they probably would have never discovered the joy of CW. #The code kept me out for years (as well as life's happenings), but when I buckled down and studied after 30 years of excuses, I was suprised how much I enjoyed it. #
Same here. I wouldn't have picked up code if it hadn't been a requirement for licensing. After the leraning pains, I found it was actually very enjoyable and it soon became my favorite mode. Due to my inactivity (which will hopefully change soon), my speed leveled off at around 15 wpm but after not using it for so long, I've found my current comfort level to be at just over 10 wpm. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to improve on that in the near future.
Maybe to increase the use of digital modes, we should implement some "proficiency" testing in that mode. Make every applicant come with a laptop, ready to set up and send and receive a 5 minute QSO, using the hardware and software that he has brought.

Joe

ky5u

12-06-2006, 04:32 AM

Joe,

The conclusions from the surveys I cam to were:

1. All of the no code points save "regulatory purpose" were bogus.

2. The ARRL has no interest in knowing the truth, whatever that may be.

Add to that these conclusions from 3 years of "discussion":

3. Pro code point about "CW gets through when other modes can't" and such were also irrelevent.

4. The decision will be based on "regulatory purpose" and if the FCC sticks with it's decision thus far, the test is history.

5. Most Amateurs want the test to remain for Extra Class but will this overcome #4? I think not.

That said, without the push to change the rules, there would not have been a change for some time. The FCC would not have done this on their own.

K7JEM

12-06-2006, 04:46 AM

All very correct points and astute observations. You get an A Charlie. Reason you don't give A+ is because you lost points for inane pictures.

Joe

k1kla

12-06-2006, 04:56 AM

never I hope

KC0NBW

12-06-2006, 05:14 AM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 05 2006,19:34)]...so what you gonna pawn off first... your radios or your computer ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
i would never let myself get to the point where i have to pawn anything,but i do go without things to attain certain goals at times.

w6dce

12-06-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,07:54)]Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,05:24)]Are you kidding me? #Look at the circus that has occurred here on this site from just the decussion of the possibility of it happening..
Another genius that can't tell the difference between the Internet and Amateur Radio. Here's your picture... any questions?
I fail to see what two pictures of known pedophiles has to do with my point...

kd4mxe

12-06-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,22:53)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,07:54)]Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,05:24)]Are you kidding me? #Look at the circus that has occurred here on this site from just the decussion of the possibility of it happening..
Another genius that can't tell the difference between the Internet and Amateur Radio. Here's your picture... any questions?
w6dce-I fail to see what two pictures of known pedophiles has to do with my point...----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------( well sir I see you have met mr charlie,dont worry tho we have all met him at some point and time ,so you are not By yourself he is the picture man thats for sure ,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ai4ep

12-06-2006, 02:21 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ...without CW it is pretty close to being CB ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ky5u

12-06-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,22:53)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 05 2006,07:54)]Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 05 2006,05:24)]Are you kidding me? Look at the circus that has occurred here on this site from just the decussion of the possibility of it happening..
Another genius that can't tell the difference between the Internet and Amateur Radio. Here's your picture... any questions?
I fail to see what two pictures of known pedophiles has to do with my point...
Take your medication. You'll feel better.

kd4mxe

12-06-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 06 2006,07:21)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # ...... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ai4ep- without CW it is pretty close to being CB ,------------------------------------------------------------------------------( ah come on it,s not that Bad ,look on the Bright side it could Be worse you know ,I know a lot of hams on c B and they are petter good folks from what I have seen , 73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ai4ep

12-07-2006, 02:06 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I was being optimistic..didnt you see the SMILEY faces ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

ve2nsm

12-07-2006, 02:12 AM

Quote[/b] ]WHEN WILL THE CODE BE DROPPED?

When will this subject be dropped http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

KC0NBW

12-07-2006, 02:20 AM

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Dec. 06 2006,19:12)]Quote[/b] ]WHEN WILL THE CODE BE DROPPED?

When will this subject be dropped http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
hopefully, when the decision is made to keep element 1 in this country. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

kd4mxe

12-07-2006, 03:08 AM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 06 2006,19:06)]
ai4ep-http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I was being optimistic..didnt you see the SMILEY faces ? :laugh:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------( well yes I saw one ,But I saw one that was not to this one http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif But hang in there the future looks good 73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kd4mxe

12-07-2006, 03:17 AM

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ Dec. 06 2006,19:12)]Quote[/b] ]WHEN WILL THE CODE BE DROPPED?
ve2nsm-When will this subject be dropped http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif ???-----------------------------------------------------------------------------( well about 10 years after the fcc drops the Hammer on the Requirtment , But for some when they die of old age,thats just my opinion now,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K8HUR

12-07-2006, 03:17 AM

With the impending expansion of the phone bands many are waiting in the wings for the next shoe to drop; the no code HF license. As one that had to take my exams at the field office in Detroit, I have to wonder how copacetic some of the VE exams are judging by some folks that I've heard on local 2 meter repeaters. Is it a "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" deal? There's more suitable places for these LIDS, 11 meters and FRS.

w6dce

12-07-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 06 2006,07:21)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # ...without CW #it is pretty close to being CB #... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Rediculous...

w6dce

12-07-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote[/b] (K8HUR @ Dec. 06 2006,20:17)]With the impending expansion of the phone bands many are waiting in the wings for the next shoe to drop; the no code HF license. As one that had to take my exams at the field office in Detroit, I have to wonder how copacetic some of the VE exams are judging by some folks that I've heard on local 2 meter repeaters. Is it a "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" deal? There's #more suitable places for these LIDS, 11 meters and FRS.
I have worked 5 disasters since I became an amateur in 92. #The only code I have heard during those emergency situations was coming from my automatic IDer on my equipment. #Most all of the traffic was on either 2m or 70cm, with one exception where HF was being utilized, but in voice mode. #Most repeaters use voice ID's, 99% of the traffic I hear on the bands is voice traffic. #Several other countries have already dropped the CW requirements, so I fail to see why other than EGO's being bruised we should be forced into learning an outdated, obsolete mode of operation.

Bottom line, if you like it, learn it and use it. #But realistically, it serves no useful purpose other than to stir up a bunch of bad feelings amidst the amateur community.

af2cw

12-07-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote[/b] ]Several other countries have already dropped the CW requirements... Which works out to about 12% of the countries world wide. Why should the U.S. be forced to follow them? I know, to you and others that are for the removal of the test, it shows no relevance any more. I think the only egos being hurt are of those that refuse to do what is required now to obtain what they want. As for being obsolete, there are many stations world wide that are still using Morse code. It is no more an obsolete mode than AM, or SSB, or RTTY.

I guess that will be the next step, removing AM, RTTY and CW from all bands so there will be more room for those that only use SSB and the other more "popular" modes. The writing is on the wall, mark my words.

N8CPA

12-07-2006, 11:00 AM

That the most vocal advocate for dropping the requirement is the one with the most corruptible VE organization--per FCC enforcement action--is reason enough to pray it won't be dropped!

Oh I how cherish memories of the days when enforcement actions sometimes restricted offenders to CW only operation for abuse of phone privileges.

MAIA'S MINIONS BE BRASSED!

af2cw

12-07-2006, 11:16 AM

Quote[/b] ]Bottom line, if you like it, learn it and use it. #But realistically, it serves no useful purpose other than to stir up a bunch of bad feelings amidst the amateur community. You mean the NCT community right? Other than a few vocal individuals that have at least passed the test to get on HF, the majority of bad feelings are from the NCT's that refuse to do what is required. THAT is the bottom line.

w6dce

12-07-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote[/b] (af2cw @ Dec. 07 2006,03:52)]Quote[/b] ]Several other countries have already dropped the CW requirements... Which works out to about 12% of the countries world wide. Why should the U.S. be forced to follow them? I know, to you and others that are for the removal of the test, it shows no relevance any more. I think the only egos being hurt are of those that refuse to do what is required now to obtain what they want. As for being obsolete, there are many stations world wide that are still using Morse code. It is no more an obsolete mode than AM, or SSB, or RTTY.

I guess that will be the next step, removing AM, RTTY and CW from all bands so there will be more room for those that only use SSB and the other more "popular" modes. The writing is on the wall, mark my words.
Your opinion that morse isn't obsolete isn't the popular one.

Facts are facts, let me quote some..

From Wilkipedia

"However, with the development of more advanced communications technologies, the widespread use of Morse code is now largely obsolete"

From a CBC news article

"Satellites make the code obsolete now. A recent international treaty all but silenced dots and dashes around the world this year.

Shawn Hudson, who coordinates marine radio for the Coast Guard in Sydney, is sad to see the code be phased out. But new technology makes things safer for ships. "We're getting information quicker," he says. "And we're getting it automatically from the ship, whereas, before we were dependant upon a ship to actually transmit it to us."

From the ARRL by way of the VEC's

"However, requiring every ham to learn an obsolete technology is a barrier to the growth and progress of our hobby."

Doing a google search for "Morse code obsolete" came back with several thousand hits from civilians, to media, to military all stating the same fact. Morse code, while still in use is obsolete as an effective mode of communication, when other modes are much faster, more effective and more reliable. Doubt me? Do the search yourself.

af2cw

12-07-2006, 11:47 AM

Opinions are all you're stating. Where are the numbers? Check the DX clusters, you'll find that approximately 30% of the contacts/QSO's are via Morse code, while approximately 45% are from SSB. Not so obsolete is it? And as for Wilkipedia, again, simply opinion, not based on facts. You're the type that believes everything you read as long as it goes along with your point of view/opinion.

Do yourself a favor and call up all the contacts listed from DX Summit and do the math, it'll show your opinion is not valid. Another NCT "fact" shot in the tail. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

af2cw

12-07-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote[/b] ]Morse code, while still in use is obsolete as an effective mode of communication, when other modes are much faster, more effective and more reliable.Under what conditions? Perfect, ideal conditions, I would agree with you. However, as conditions deteriorate, for example the current solar cycle, that is doubtful. Then again you know all about this by doing your own tests right? Oh, right, you can't, sorry about that.

w6dce

12-07-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote[/b] (af2cw @ Dec. 07 2006,04:47)]Opinions are all you're stating. Where are the numbers? Check the DX clusters, you'll find that approximately 30% of the contacts/QSO's are via Morse code, while approximately 45% are from SSB. Not so obsolete is it? And as for Wilkipedia, again, simply opinion, not based on facts. You're the type that believes everything you read as long as it goes along with your point of view/opinion.

Do yourself a favor and call up all the contacts listed from DX Summit and do the math, it'll show your opinion is not valid. Another NCT "fact" shot in the tail. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Show your sources for these numbers.. As far as I can tell you are simply skewing the numbers to support a weak argument. Not only that, but the wrong argument. Just because there are still a lot of "old timers" hanging onto their Edsels, doesn't mean they are better than the Jaguars out there.

If morse is still as awesome as you imply, it wouldn't have been dropped by nearly every military branch around the globe as a form of communications, nor would the FCC even consider dropping it at all. Not to mention the general population of the planet who all have the same basic opinion. It's slow, and while you and others may still use, enjoy and brag about it, is in fact obsolete as other modes are faster, easier and more widely used as well as more reliable as a whole.

Quote facts, not opinions.. That is what I did..

N5LRZ

12-07-2006, 12:25 PM

A moot question guys, completely moot...

The FCC has stated that it intends to drop the code requirement for Amateur Licensing. It has not stated when due to other pending more important matters.

With the Frequency Restructuring out of the way rumor has it that the no code issue will be next in line. But who knows with the FCC what is next in line.

In reference to the code however, weither used or not it did serve ONE useful 'purpose'. It served as a filter to "Eliminate" those who did not want the license "Bad Enough".

af2cw

12-07-2006, 01:18 PM

I gave you the source, DX Summit, do a google, you're good at that. Call up the records and do the math, you can do it, I have faith in you. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Again, my arguement is wrong because it is YOUR opinion. I asked for your facts, and you gave opinions. And again you have not answered the question, why should the U.S. follow only 12% of the countries that have removed the code testing requirement? This figure can also be found, if you do the math. Hmm, maybe math isn't your strong suit?

af2cw

12-07-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote[/b] (N5LRZ @ Dec. 07 2006,07:25)]In reference to the code however, weither used or not it did serve ONE useful 'purpose'. # It served as a filter to "Eliminate" those who did not want the license "Bad Enough".
BINGOOOO! #We have a winner!! Emphasis added.

kd4mxe

12-07-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote[/b] (N5LRZ @ Dec. 07 2006,05:25)]A moot question guys, completely moot...

The FCC has stated that it intends to drop the code requirement for Amateur Licensing. #It has not stated when due to other pending more important matters.

. #But who knows with the FCC what is next in line.

In reference to the code however, weither used or not it did serve ONE useful 'purpose'. # It served as a filter to "Eliminate" those who did not want the license "Bad Enough".
n5lrz-With the Frequency Restructuring out of the way rumor has it that the no code issue will be next in line--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------(well I sure hope it is , we will need to get our water hoses ready to put out all the fires thats going to get started over it ,If the fcc dose drop the hammer on the code stuff qrz will Be rolling then ,73 Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K0HWY

12-07-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 07 2006,05:01)]But realistically, it serves no useful purpose other than to stir up a bunch of bad feelings amidst the amateur community.
The code requirement never stirred anything. Before code was dropped as an entry level requirement, there was nothing being stirred. Everyone coming to amateur radio knew that there was a code requirement and they knew that to be a part of the community they'd have to meet the standard. Dropping the code requirement did one thing. It created a division among the community and it gained the lazy and unmotivated the precious little turf they needed to take things to the next level. And that's where we are today. So, it's not the code requirement that's stirring the bad feelings. It's laziness.

The argument has been made that the code is no longer required under international treaty; a treaty which sets the minimum standard for our hobby. I suppose if you like minimum standards, that's all well and good. At some point in the future, our minimum standard will once again be lowered. Next target: the written exams. With the current mentality of the FCC, I suppose we can expect an even more minimal (if it's possible) set of written exams. Truthfully, if we make these exams any less difficult, it's going to be hard to justify having them at all. And that's where we're headed.

kd4mxe

12-07-2006, 01:51 PM

well I tell you some of these people #need to cheer up ,some #sound like the world is comming to a end ,cheer up folks there could #not Be any test at all Bill kd4mxe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

w5alt

12-07-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 07 2006,05:52)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 06 2006,07:21)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ...without CW it is pretty close to being CB ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Rediculous...
Yep, that how CB sounds to me, too. Thanks. Couldn't have described it better!

ai4ep

12-07-2006, 02:08 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ....like I said earlier --- without the cw requirement, amateur radio will become more and more like CB ....

just imagine how the HF bands will be after the morse code requirement is dropped...yes it will be THAT bad...agitators / jammers / LIDS...something like it is today, but a whole lot more of them and it will be hard to communicate with other legal stations.

You can put a paper bag over your head and try to tell me it wont be like that...but... in your heart and soul, you know that I ( and others ) are correct.

If you wish to have no code on hf privileges right now, just move to one of those 12 countries that allow it, and report back to us how conditions are ( no lying now ) via the internet ( yes you can use a computer in some of those countries ).

So hurry up now and git it done.

73

btw -- the news on the static filled am radio says it is "pearl harbor day "...so take a few minutes that you aint doing any thing important ( problably all day ) and pause and remember all those folks that got hurt / killed.

Yea, I know I should stop listening to Rush Limbaugh...old habits die hard. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ai4ep

12-07-2006, 02:12 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif # folks on a Huntsville Alabama 2 meter repeater using cb lingo... they actually called each other " whats yer 20 #" and said " io - 4 " ...... #using their old cb callsigns ( 4 letters and 4 numbers )

dern lids ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

did the fcc change the rules yesterday and we dont know it yet ?

PE1RDW

12-07-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 07 2006,16:08)]If you wish to have no code on hf privileges right now, just move to one of those 12 #countries that allow it, and report back to us how conditions are ( no lying now ) via the internet ( yes you can use a computer in some of those countries ).
I and many others have already made those reports, the bands have not turned into US CB after the CW tests have been gone.

A lot of it might be because those countries (a lot more then 12 that you claim here) are also in the HAREC (http://www.ero.dk/documentation/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6102.PDF) program.
look at the list of countries that have adopted the HAREC recomendation and you see that of the 26 countries only 4 demand proof of passing a CW test.

Now if someone with knowlidge of the test questions would be so kind to compare the HAREC examination syllabus with the syllabus of the current usa licences that might give a insight into how dumbed down the test would be if the questions where hidden.

kd4mxe

12-07-2006, 02:29 PM

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 07 2006,07:08)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ....like I said earlier --- without the cw requirement, amateur radio will become more and more like CB ....

You can put a paper bag over your head and try to tell me it wont be like that...but... in your heart and soul, you know that I ( and others ) are correct.

If you wish to have no code on hf privileges right now, just move to one of those 12 #countries that allow it, and report back to us how conditions are ( no lying now ) via the internet ( yes you can use a computer in some of those countries ).

So hurry up now and git it done.

73

btw -- the news on the #static filled am radio says it is "pearl harbor day "...so take a few minutes that you aint doing any thing important ( problably all day ) and pause and remember all those folks that got hurt / killed.

Yea, I know I should stop listening to Rush Limbaugh...old habits die hard. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ai4ep-just imagine how the HF bands will be after the morse code requirement is dropped...yes it will be THAT bad...agitators / jammers / LIDS...something like it is today, but a whole lot more of them and it will be hard to communicate with other legal stations.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------(well sir you could get you one of those 2kw amps and that will get over them ,if you dont already have one ,I dont think it will Be that Bad ,,we hope not anyway ,Billkd4mxe

kd4mxe

12-07-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ Dec. 07 2006,07:23)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Dec. 07 2006,16:08)]If you wish to have no code on hf privileges right now, just move to one of those 12 #countries that allow it, and report back to us how conditions are ( no lying now ) via the internet ( yes you can use a computer in some of those countries ).

A lot of it might be because those countries (a lot more then 12 that you claim here) are also in the HAREC (http://www.ero.dk/documentation/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6102.PDF) program.
look at the list of countries that have adopted the HAREC recomendation and you see that of the 26 countries only 4 demand proof of passing a CW test.

Now if someone with knowlidge of the test questions would be so kind to compare the HAREC examination syllabus with the syllabus of the current usa licences that might give a insight into how dumbed down the test would be if the questions where hidden.
pe1rdw-I and many others have already made those reports, the bands have not turned into US CB after the CW tests have been gone.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------( no sir and dont think it will turn out that way here , But you know how some people are they cry and whine about something that has not even happen yet, you know some of these people sound like they know the future and it has not got here yet ,73 Bill kd4mxe
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

ky5u

12-07-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 07 2006,04:59)]Quote facts, not opinions.. That is what I did..
Wow, the all knowing NCT. I acknowledge your points about code not used much outside Ham Radio but your examples are irrelevent to Amateur Radio. CW still the second most popular mode in AR. You're arguing a point defeated months ago while you were still romantically entwined with Gerritsen. Go back and read the chains...don't be a lazy no coder.

The discussion has boiled down to "regulatory reason". If the FCC sticks with their opinion, the test is history. If they are swayed by the majority of comments that favor code testing remain for Extra, then that's what will happen.

K7JEM

12-07-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Dec. 07 2006,08:01)]Quote[/b] (w6dce @ Dec. 07 2006,04:59)]Quote facts, not opinions.. #That is what I did..
Wow, the all knowing NCT. #I acknowledge your points about code not used much outside Ham Radio but your examples are irrelevent to Amateur Radio. #CW still the second most popular mode in AR. #You're arguing a point defeated months ago while you were still romantically entwined with Gerritsen. #Go back and read the chains...don't be a lazy no coder.

The discussion has boiled down to "regulatory reason". #If the FCC sticks with their opinion, the test is history. #If they are swayed by the majority of comments that favor code testing remain for Extra, then that's what will happen.
Charlie is mostly right. This is an issue of regulatory nature, since that is what the FCC does. The fact that code is not used outside of ham radio is of some interest to the FCC in making this decision. So is the fact that code is widely used by hams, especially on HF. But neither of these things will be the determining factor.

While the majority of commenters did want the code test to remain, at least for extra, it was a small majority. 55 to 45% is pretty close to 50/50, and considering that there were only 4000 comments on something that was billed to be highly controversial, it would appear that the vast majority aren't bothered about it, either way. If the comments had been lopsided one way or the other, and/or if there had been two or three times the number of comments, it obviously would have had more weight.

Also, if any new agument had been presented (by either side), then that might change what the FCC thought about the issue. Nothing new was presented by either side.

Since the comments were relatively few, and almost evenly split, and since no new arguments were presented, it is likely (but not absolute) that