View Full Version : Gentlemans agreement?
I've been off of HF for several years and I'm just coming back and I've noticed something which I can't seem to understand.
One of my favorite modes in the evening is 40M CW. Now, I'm finding rtty stations all around 7040kHz. I know the bandplan allows this but this was never the case years ago. Above 7050 is quiet. Am I missing something here? Why would rtty stations converge around a qrp calling freq for cw?
Am I missing something? Educate me please.
Best,
Brian
KC9ECI
11-19-2006, 03:24 AM
Contest?
That happens to be the RTTY/PSK/etc frequency outside of region 2. Thus, that's where stateside hams go to work RTTY DX.
The major difference between now and then is that now, there ARE NO Gentlemen ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Contests seem to over ride all agreements. Example; on 160 the fone stations usually stay above 1840, the dx chasing CW ops stay above 1820 and the casual ops and ragchewers on CW take the bottom 20 kHz. During the last fone test, the SSB was all the way down to 1795 kHz.
somehow the DX chasers on 30 M have taken over 10106 kHz that was formerly a frequency used by QRP ops, many of them have Xtal controlled xmtrs...oh well, too bad...
K0HWY
11-19-2006, 09:48 AM
Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Nov. 18 2006,21:04)]The major difference between now and then is that now, there ARE NO Gentlemen ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I'm seeing this as well. And as VSP said, it hasn't been that long ago... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
N8CPA
11-19-2006, 11:06 AM
Another factor above 7050 is that it's a legal
Canadian phone segment. #Granted, I live in Ohio [WE'RE NUMBER ONE!]--but I rarley hear anything except sideband there.
Quote[/b] (n8fq @ Nov. 18 2006,23:29)]That happens to be the RTTY/PSK/etc frequency outside of region 2. Thus, that's where stateside hams go to work RTTY DX.
I hooked up my KAM to monitor the rtty last night and it appeared to be stateside working stateside.
The only contest (that I know of) for this weekend is the ARRL November Sweepstakes phone contest.
Just seems silly for high powered rtty stations to sit directly on a known calling freq for qrp cw.
I looked over my logs from 10 years ago and I have plenty of 40M cw contacts around these freqs at night, so , this is a relatively new occurrence.
Oh well, guess I'll adjust.
Best,
Brian
n1ydx
11-19-2006, 11:58 AM
As stated, the frequency chart says 7.025 - 7.150 = CW, RTTY, DATA. I see RTTY stations starting at 7.050 and up to about 7.080 or 7.090. Then silence until you get in the 7.100 to 7.125 where you can compete with foreign broadcast stations to work a Novice. Ya, it's a bummer to compete with a full power RTTY station but there is plenty of band space. I could say 'Live with it' but 'work with it is better'
N1YDX - Retired US Army
Last night, rtty stations started around 7037kHz on up to 7048kHz. I've seen this for a couple of nights now. No rtty above 7050. There were some cw stations up around 7056.
Oh yeah, I'll adapt. It all just seemed strange that these stations would converge around 7040 when there was plenty of clear freqs just up the band.
Best,
Brian
W4HAY
11-19-2006, 02:42 PM
We hear 'em, and just kick in the narrow filters. Love that DSP!
K5UOS
11-19-2006, 04:08 PM
I believe some of the 5 watt QRP organizations are trying to move everybody to 7.030 rather than 7.040MHz due to the competition with other modes.
I don't work much QRP anymore. I like 7.050 where the Boatanchor and homebrew guys hangout. I seem to work a considerable number of homebrew glowbug QRPers. It is so much fun working a guy with his first tube TX.
I think 40 and 80M will be somewhat congested for a while due to the cycle minimum. I think rules and agreements get ignored during contests and cycle minimums. I certainly hear more bickering in the 40M SSB area than in recent years. Imagine the likely congestion in the phone areas if/when the code requirement is dropped. No coders may get what they wish for and what the pro coders warn them about.
K5UOS
WA2ZDY
11-19-2006, 04:09 PM
Quote[/b] (ka3vsp @ Nov. 19 2006,06:53)]Just seems silly for high powered rtty stations to sit directly on a known calling freq for qrp cw.
Welcome to the new ham radio. Unfortunately this sort of activity seems to be the norm and not improving.
The answer is education, but one cannot teach someone uninterested in learning.
Well, apparently, you guys don't keep track of DXpeditions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
5A7A was working RTTY in split mode. What you heard was people trying to work it.
w8znx
11-19-2006, 08:16 PM
the screw up is that
7040 Kc is the North American qrp calling freq
AND
7040 Kc is the European RTTY calling freq
Mac
wa9cwx
11-19-2006, 09:21 PM
I think the lack of co-operation is more from general lack of knowlege, rather than any intentional QRM.
It has ALWAYS suprised me that, in a hobby based on COMMUNICATION, there is virtually none taking place.
I have many examples to rant about, which I will keep to myself and not bore others with. But this is one good example.
Europeans using a stateside EXACT QRP frequency for a RTTY CALLING frequency....
Out of the fifteen quadzillion frequencies that COULD be used.... RTTY all OVER 25 to 40 Khz , but virtually NONE between 50 and 65....And yes it IS worse during contests.
I know the DXpedition was just using a convenient frequency for RTTY, but WHY did it have to be 7037....?
The real problem this weekend was the lack of simple courtesy in the pile-ups. Including deliberate QRMing of the DX frequency on CW.
As for QRP on 30 khz, that is right next to the mobile CW frequency.
And on and on and on.....
Makes the ole' fightin the SWBCsters seem like a piece of cake.
Quote[/b] (n3jja @ Nov. 19 2006,12:33)]Well, apparently, you guys don't keep track of DXpeditions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
5A7A was working RTTY in split mode. What you heard was people trying to work it.
Yep, I saw that. However, there were many other stateside rtty ops working stateside.
kb2vxa
11-20-2006, 10:55 AM
"5A7A was working RTTY in split mode. What you heard was people trying to work it."
You think that's bad? You should hear the mess when he's using fone! Just about a third of the band he's on sounds like CB, they're spread out THAT far. Oh, need I mention the kilocycle kops trying to direct traffic in Crimes Square? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
PE1RDW
11-20-2006, 12:43 PM
Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Nov. 19 2006,23:21)]Europeans using a stateside EXACT QRP frequency for a RTTY CALLING frequency....
You could turn it around, USA QRP stations using the european RTTY CALLING frequency....
Keep in mind that for a long time Europe has been limited to 7.000 - 7.100, the bandplan is:
7.000 - 7.035 CW
7.035 - 7.040 all narowband modes <500 hz
7.040 - 7.045 all modes
7.045 - 7.100 phone and CW
WA3KYY
11-20-2006, 01:30 PM
This is only a real problem during a sunspot minimum when 40M goes long early and often. Why would a considerate RTTY operator fire up in the middle of a bunch of SSB QSOs? The normal Region 2 RTTY segment is full of European SSB operators on 40M most evenings at present.
This is perhaps the strongest argument that the Amateur radio representatives to the next WARC can make for a global 300KHz amateur primary allocation for 40M. That way a uniform bandplan could be formulated and and operators would not have to decide whether to QRM SSB ops or CW ops when they wanted to work RTTY or some other digital mode.
Mike WA3KYY
G8ADD
11-21-2006, 09:58 AM
Under the European bandplan even SSTV has to limit itself to 7040 - 7045, which makes clean pictures nearly as common as hens teeth, but in the usual condition of extreme congestion some SSB operators move down there too. Things are set to improve, several countries have permitted operation on 7100 - 7200, but the only time slot when this segment is not crippled by powerful BC stations is mid morning to early afternoon! I would vote for 7000 to 7300 and a world-wide band plan but don't expect to see it any time soon!
73
Brian G8ADD
k4kyv
11-21-2006, 06:54 PM
Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Nov. 19 2006,11:06)]Another factor above 7050 is that it's a legal
Canadian phone segment.
There is no such thing as a Canadian phone segment. The Canadian regulatory authority eliminated mode subbands years ago. All HF bands are just like 160m in the USA: any mode can operate on any frequency within the amateur band, and there are no licence class subbands.
K0RGR
11-21-2006, 08:25 PM
2009 is coming - at that point, the BC stations should be gone between 7.1 and 7.2, and our non-voice band will extend up to 7.125. Hopefully, the rest of the world will realign their SSB and other modes to be above 7.1 Mhz.. I would expect that you'll find foreign phone from 7.1 to 7.125 - but it may take more years for that to happen.
We should begin to migrate our 40 meter digital stuff to a frequency in that segment after December 15. I think we can find one that's fairly free of BC interfrence now.