Frequency Measuring Test

[k4kyv]

To-night W1AW will broadcast the 2006 frequency measuring test 0245-0300 GMT. Test frequencies will be in the 160, 80 and 40m bands.

The FMT is in the spirit of what amateur radio is all about, and dates back to before WW2.

I plan to give it a shot if the level of QRN and threat of lightning damage are not too high.

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/11/08/100/

http://www.arrl.org/w1aw/fmt/2006/2006fmt.pdf

[ka5piu]

Hello.

How did you do?
The article on how to make your radio more precise is nice.
As was pointed out, it is quite rare indeed for a modern radio to be off by much, perhaps 50 Hz is it after calibration.
Measuring a tone makes no sense to me, it has nothing to do with band limits.

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Nov. 18 2006,10:12)]Measuring a tone makes no sense to me, it has nothing to do with band limits.
If the tone is close to the band limits it certainly does! Did they take those questions off the current exams, too?

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Nov. 18 2006,09:06)]Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Nov. 18 2006,10:12)]Measuring a tone makes no sense to me, it has nothing to do with band limits.
If the tone is close to the band limits it certainly does! Did they take those questions off the current exams, too?

73,
Walt, W5ALT
be nice 5 piu
is still a novice

Mac

[w5alt]

I didn't mean to sound nasty, Mac. Really, that was a question on the old Tech/General test.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Nov. 17 2006,15:59)]I didn't mean to sound nasty, Mac. Really, that was a question on the old Tech/General test.
If you don't mean to sound nasty, then don't. It would have been a simple matter for you to go look at the current question pool and determine if the question that you had in mind is still there. If it isn't and you feel that it's important then you could submit a question to the NCVEC.

Of course, that doesn't do quite as much for your ego as belitteling new hams and new exams.

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 18 2006,21:05)]Of course, that doesn't do quite as much for your ego as belitteling new hams and new exams.
Still trying to entertain, I see. Thanks for the laugh.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Nov. 17 2006,19:10)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 18 2006,21:05)]Of course, that doesn't do quite as much for your ego as belitteling new hams and new exams.
Still trying to entertain, I see. Thanks for the laugh.
Not half as entertaining as your ignorance of the current exams. I thought you were up on those things? After all, the questions are published, it's not like it's difficult to know what's on the exam and what isn't.

[af2cw]

Hey Walt, what's all this entertainment costing anyway? #I didn't know exams had feelings! #You should apologize to the new exams http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (af2cw @ Nov. 17 2006,20:16)]Hey Walt, what's all this entertainment costing anyway? #I didn't know exams had feelings! #You should apologize to the new exams http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
The word belittle doesn't imply that its object has feelings. One can belittle a process, or for that matter, any noun, as easily as one can belittle a person. The existence of feelings comes from the properties of the object, not of the verb.

You can find a definition here (http://www.answers.com/topic/belittle).

You see walt, even though rich belittled my response, rather than belittle his knowledge of grammar, I took the time to elmer him and provide a link so that he can improve his skills.

I like to teach by example.

[w5alt]

Well, Rich, if I inadvertently insulted KA5PIU, I would like to assure him that I meant no offense. Please, KA5PIU accept my sincerest apology. If KA5PIU wishes, I'll be happy to tell him so personally the next time I'm in San Antonio and buy him a cup of coffee, a soft drink or a beer to show my good intentions.

I think it was an extraordinary gesture for AB8RO to come to his rescue and for pointing out that he thought incorrectly. I'm not sure why he wants to blame me for his erroneous assumption, though.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
73,
Walt, W5ALT

[af2cw]

I'm sure KA5PIU will accept your apology. It's nice to see the keeper of the threads here coming in to rescue those he believes needs rescuing. Or is it more to bolster his own ego?

[af2cw]

Oh BTW Walt, the information you provided earlier today gave the results you predicted it would. Good call. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[w5alt]

Yeah, Rich, sometimes things work according to theory. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I wonder how AB8RO did on the FMT. It wasn't audible here, so I couldn't participate.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Nov. 17 2006,20:33)]I think it was an extraordinary gesture for AB8RO to come to his rescue and for pointing out that he thought incorrectly. I'm not sure why he wants to blame me for his erroneous assumption, though.
Nice dance walt. But, mac pointed out that you sounded nasty, and I agree. You sounded nasty. Doesn't matter what you meant when you put so little effort into conveying that meaning.

It's not like I was the first person to point it out. Nor did you make any attempt to convey what your exclamation really meant.

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Nov. 17 2006,21:12)]Yeah, Rich, sometimes things work according to theory. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I wonder how AB8RO did on the FMT. It wasn't audible here, so I couldn't participate.
All of my rigs are crystal controlled and I've had each of the crystals checked against my elmer's Eico 753 so I know that I'm bang on frequency when I transmit.

Hence there was clearly no need for me to participate in the FMT.

[ka5piu]

Hello.

My point is that a modulated tone is just that, a modulated tone.
To zero beat on WWV, yes, this produces a tone, but in the BFO of the radio itself.
So I would think that a steady state carrier would make more sense.
For basic calibration I use a crystal osc' at 3.579545 Hz, yes a TV color burst unit.
This is just outside the novice band on 80 meters.
My frequency counter has a 10 MHz master clock that is checked against WWV at least once a month.
This is checked against the service monitors.
Now, after this is all done, I calibrate.
Now, somebody could get upset when I calibrate the AN/GRC 9 or WS model 19 mk III, as there is not that great
isolation when calibrating, but a few milliwatts on 80m has not upset anybody so far.
Normally I use a Kenwood TS-430 on HF, off by 32 Hz+ right now.
So, again, a tone on HF?

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (ka5piu @ Nov. 19 2006,11:27)]Hello.

My point is that a modulated tone is just that, a modulated tone.
To zero beat on WWV, yes, this produces a tone, but in the BFO of the radio itself.
So I would think that a steady state carrier would make more sense.
For basic calibration I use a crystal osc' at 3.579545 Hz, yes a TV color burst unit.
This is just outside the novice band on 80 meters.
My frequency counter has a 10 MHz master clock that is checked against WWV at least once a month.
This is checked against the service monitors.
Now, after this is all done, I calibrate.
Now, somebody could get upset when I calibrate the AN/GRC 9 or WS model 19 mk III, as there is not that great
isolation when calibrating, but a few milliwatts on 80m has not upset anybody so far.
Normally I use a Kenwood TS-430 on HF, off by 32 Hz+ right now.
So, again, a tone on HF?
Well, I think the ARRL is doing some experimentation with the FMT that helps to reinforce how RF signals are generated and transmitted. Nothing more. The whole point of previous tests was to measure the tone that was transmitted, which of course may not be the same as the tone received. This time the object was to find the carrier frequency. Just a slight twist on the fundamental problem of measuring a received frequency and then figuring out what was actually transmitted.

And, again, I apologize if I originally sounded nasty.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 18 2006,23:13)]Nice dance walt. ...
Why thank you for the compliment!

I'm sure you must be referring to what was mentioned in the November 2000 Society section of El Diario, but I don't recall the exact date. The dance was on a Saturday right after my youngest step-daughter's wedding and it appeared in their Sunday edition. The next time you pass through Cochabamba you can stop by their office and try to purchase a back issue. They also have offices in La Paz and Sucre, BTW. Send it to me with an SASE and I'll be more than happy to autograph it for you.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[ka5piu]

Hello.

The original frequency measuring test was just that, a test of how precise the measurements were.
OO's had to do 2 a year at one time.
Now, I can have a radio set up so precise that I can see a drift in the signal of WWV.
It is not WWV but the ionosphere that causes shifts of up to 3 Hz at times.
The precision comes from a reference unit that takes GPS signals to error correct a frequency counter.
Do people need to be that close?
No, but is is fun to chase the tail (LSD),

[w5alt]

Yes, it is interesting and quite enlightening to see how much the frequency actually does vary. I've done some limited playing, since I don't have access to a primary frequency standard. Under precise measurements and multipath reception, at times you can see a signal split into two signals a few Hertz apart due to differences in the path.

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[N5KRC]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 18 2006,13:32)]You see walt, even though rich belittled my response, rather than belittle his knowledge of grammar, I took the time to elmer him and provide a link so that he can improve his skills.

I like to teach by example.
Here is a link so you can improve your grammatical skills as well:

First-Year English FAQs: When should I capitalize? (http://www.pvc.maricopa.edu/lsc/faq/eng/enggrawhen.htm#name)

[ka5piu]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Nov. 18 2006,19:33)]Well, Rich, if I inadvertently insulted KA5PIU, I would like to assure him that I meant no offense. Please, KA5PIU accept my sincerest apology. If KA5PIU wishes, I'll be happy to tell him so personally the next time I'm in San Antonio and buy him a cup of coffee, a soft drink or a beer to show my good intentions.

I think it was an extraordinary gesture for AB8RO to come to his rescue and for pointing out that he thought incorrectly. I'm not sure why he wants to blame me for his erroneous assumption, though.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
73,
Walt, W5ALT
Hello.

As English is a 4th language for me, I have to think, sometimes for days, to understand an insult.
So, I have not found one so far, thus all is well.

Thank you.