December 15

[k0ews]

Well, it looks like the band plan changes are now in the Federal Register, so the new plans go into effect on December 15.

LINK (http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/11/15/100/?nc=1)

[N5PVL]

I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.

[cu2jt]

That will give me a chance to work General's on 7175-7200 then ??

[k0ews]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 15 2006,10:47)]I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.
I think that they phone allocation on 80 meters was a bit large. I could see 3650-4000 for Extras, but 3600? I think there should be a little more breathing room for the CW digital activity. There is a bit of activity in the Novice portion that will be moved to 3500-3600, and that may crowd things up.

[N5PVL]

Yep, it's definately time to hit the books and upgrade.

Here is the R&O by the way, as published in the federal register:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7....189.pdf (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2006/pdf/E6-19189.pdf)

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Nov. 15 2006,11:01)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 15 2006,10:47)]I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.
I think that they phone allocation on 80 meters was a bit large. I could see 3650-4000 for Extras, but 3600? I think there should be a little more breathing room for the CW digital activity. There is a bit of activity in the Novice portion that will be moved to 3500-3600, and that may crowd things up.
Well you can still do CW anywhere in the band.

[ka3tqg]

I like the new band plans. Congestion on 75 has kept me off that band... Hoping the extra 150 khz will help...Sure shouldn't hurt.. 25 khz on 40 with alot more europeans showing up between 7.1 - 7.2 will provide some more DX oppurtunities there... I am optomistic !!!!

[ky5u]

Love the last paragraph about how this is NOT removal of the code test. Better tell the folks before they run off and start calling CQ. LOL!

[N4AUD]

Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Nov. 15 2006,12:01)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 15 2006,10:47)]I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.
I think that they phone allocation on 80 meters was a bit large. I could see 3650-4000 for Extras, but 3600? I think there should be a little more breathing room for the CW digital activity. There is a bit of activity in the Novice portion that will be moved to 3500-3600, and that may crowd things up.
I'm kind of stunned by the amount given to phone for Extras, but the phone portion of the band allotted to Generals is crowded at night. I don't hear a LOT of cw activity on the band but they might have gone a tad too far with the new plan. The Extra phone portion isn't all that crowded.

[kb2vxa]

"I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means."

Then too some seem to be in Ironside mode or reporting from Tokyo on a 400' lizard with bad breath.

Serizawa! Serizawa!

Gee, I had to edit to stay ahead of the avalanche of replies! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N5PVL]

Note how the ARRL left out any mention of the following section in their article.
Quote[/b] ]
§ 97.3 Definitions.
* * * * *
© * * *
(2) Data. Telemetry, telecommand and
computer communications emissions
having designators with A, C, D, F, G,
H, J or R as the first symbol; 1 as the
second symbol; D as the third symbol,
and emissions A1C, F1C, F2C, J2C, J3C,
and J2D having an occupied bandwidth
of 500 Hz or less when transmitted on
an amateur service frequency below 30
MHz. Only a digital code of a type
specifically authorized in this part may
be transmitted.
* * * * *

It seems to me that this would have an effect upon PACTOR III operation, which ARESCOM and WinLink2000 are predicated upon.

WinLink2000 administrator K4CJX lectured Skip Teller here on QRZ at great length a few months ago, telling us all why WinLink2000 could not possibly operate in a worthwhile manner with only PACTOR II, but must use PACTOR III in order to function.

It seems like the ARRL would have found this to be significant enough to comment upon, or at least report...

Do they think the 500 Hz. limit for digital sigs on HF won't be official if they refuse to admit that it's there? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Quick! Get those SCS controllers listed on EBay NOW! Today a search for "pactor" on EBay returns five items. It won't be that way for long, and the early birds will have a better chance of unloading their white elephants.

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Nov. 15 2006,11:03)]Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Nov. 15 2006,11:01)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 15 2006,10:47)]I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.
I think that they phone allocation on 80 meters was a bit large. #I could see 3650-4000 for Extras, but 3600? #I think there should be a little more breathing room for the CW digital activity. #There is a bit of activity in the Novice portion that will be moved to 3500-3600, and that may crowd things up.
Well you can still do CW anywhere in the band.
Only if you are an Extra; Generals have no access to 3.6-3.8 and Advanced no access to 3.6-3.75

I did not see where they did anything about the automated data segement on 80m. It also seems they affirmed that regardless of emission type, a data signal below 30MHz cannot occupy more than 500Hz bandwidth.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[w8cbc]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 15 2006,15:47)]I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.
I did a month ago when the R-and-O was released, made bandplan suggestions (as solicited by the ARRL - they're still accepting them) and such.

My question before wading through it again is, are there significant changes from the initial release or did they just fix a few typos?

[N5PVL]

I saw a few changes, mainly clarifications that I thought were worth reading. It's your call though. - What is significant or not is open to individual interpretation.

[PE1RDW]

I wonder when it will hit the wl2kemcommgroup, haven´t seen anything in the unsuported winlink2000 group but offcourse that one is run by those who see winlink2000 as just a buildingblock and not the swicharmy knife of hamradio

[w8cbc]

I'll read it before it comes into effect whatever the case.
I was just wondering whether I ought to rush to it.

[K3UD]

Well,

I knew that there was some reason why I decided to get the Extra. Originally it was for the 1X2 call and now I get some expanded privileges. This is something I never expected. It now looks very worthwhile to take the test and get the privileges. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

On the other hand I can not say that I am happy about the General's losing some privileges. I wonder if this was done by design or if it was just an oversight that will be corrected.

73
George
K3UD

[W5HTW]

The ARRL and several hams attempted to clarify that "oversight," before publication, and did not succeed. So apparently it is not an oversight, since the FCC went ahead with it the way it is worded. That being the case, it will prevent Generals from operating 3.6 to 3.8, on any mode.

Maybe the cow is still out to milk, but with an implimentation date set, it doesn't seem too likely.

Ed

[w8cbc]

Ah - the clarifications do help.

It says what I originally figured was the intent.

So now I know I was right. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WA2ZDY]

Generals have never before been permitted to operate CW in the Extra and Advanced phone bands. Why would it be different now? No Generals above 3600, and that placement of the phone band kills automatically controlled data on 80m too. That's why ARRL is petitioning for data on 60m.

[ne3r]

I'm glad to see a new one of these - reading the actual R&O was a little confusing.

http://www.arrl.org/announce/regulatory/wt04-140/Hambands3_color.pdf

[w8cbc]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Nov. 15 2006,23:18)]...and that placement of the phone band kills automatically controlled data on 80m too. That's why ARRL is petitioning for data on 60m.
Let 'em have a 500-cycle-wide channel centred at 5070 kc for that stuff. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wb6bnq]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Nov. 15 2006,09:43)]
"Only if you are an Extra; Generals have no access to 3.6-3.8 and <span style='color:red'>Advanced no access to 3.6-3.75</span>"

I did not see where they did anything about the automated data segement on 80m. #It also seems they affirmed that regardless of emission type, a data signal below 30MHz cannot occupy more than 500Hz bandwidth.

73,
Mike WA3KYY
Mike,

You need to read a little closer.

The 80/75 meter <span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>ADVANCE</span></span> portions are from <span style='color:red'>3.525</span> to <span style='color:red'>3.600</span> KHz and from <span style='color:red'>3.700</span> to <span style='color:red'>4.000</span> KHz.

So the portion to <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>stay out of</span></span> if you are an Advance class is from <span style='color:blue'>3.500</span> to <span style='color:blue'>3.525</span> KHz and additionally from <span style='color:blue'>3.600</span> to <span style='color:blue'>3.700</span> KHz.

Bill....WB6BNQ

[w8cbc]

So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.

[ab0wr]

I don't see any mention of the discontinuance of wideband data below 30Mhz on either the Winlink site or the HF-ALE site.

Because of the length of time it has been since the R&O was published by the FCC I figured these sites would be changed and ready to go by now.

God knows it will take every bit of the 30 days to get all amateurs notified of the changes the R&O is going to impose!

I wonder how many Olivia and mt63 users will get caught using 1000hz modes before the word gets around to stop?

tim ab0wr

[K0HWY]

I just finished looking it over. No point in whining... it's done. I'm not real happy with what I see but like someone else said, there's an incentive to upgrde now. A few days ago, I was asking myself why I was putting forth the effort when the gain would be so little. Not the case now.

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 14 2006,22:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
The advanced is a dead license class. Expecting the FCC to cater to them is naive.

[KB3LIX]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 16 2006,04:42)]Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 14 2006,22:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
The advanced is a dead license class. #Expecting the FCC to cater to them is naive.
If Andrew's math is correct, and I suspect it is, this could be a back-door squeeze play by the commission to get existing advanced licensees to upgrade to Amateur Extra.

That would eliminate the need to track, renew and deal with one less class of amateur licensing.
That may translate into significant savings for the commission staff in manpower, computer disk space and other resources.

Just a thought.

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 15 2006,23:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
You are off by a factor of 1000. Advanced have 75Khz in the CW/data/rtty segment (3.525-3.600MHz) and 300KHz phone space (3.7-4.0MHz) for a total of 375KHz on 80/75M.

[k0cmh]

Possibly the short time to effective date is a plan by the FCC to generate a lot of revenue from fines. 30 days is pretty short notice. Almost all other federal agencies have a 90 day period for new regulations to go into effect.

And even though psome ople post this, everyone seems to forget that the FCC did not change the availability of the entire Ham bands to CW. I predict that we will see more CW wedged in between those big, wide SSB signals. It is legal.

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Nov. 14 2006,10:03)]Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Nov. 15 2006,11:01)]Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 15 2006,10:47)]I've noticed that plenty of people are looking it over, but we aren't hearing any comments. I guess everybody is in "Perry Mason" mode right now, trying to figure out what it all means.
I think that they phone allocation on 80 meters was a bit large. I could see 3650-4000 for Extras, but 3600? I think there should be a little more breathing room for the CW digital activity. There is a bit of activity in the Novice portion that will be moved to 3500-3600, and that may crowd things up.
Well you can still do CW anywhere in the band.
Well of course we can, but as many of my pokey CW QSOs already get trampled to death on and around 3.720, would you suggest I tighten up the filters and go QRO to get my message through? http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/icon_rolleyes.gif

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 15 2006,03:42)]Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 14 2006,22:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
The advanced is a dead license class. Expecting the FCC to cater to them is naive.
Please keep an eye on this thread, my XYL will be making my funeral arrangements today and making an announcement here for those who wish to attend my service. Some of you guys have such flattering little comments to try to squeeze in , don't you? http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/icon_twisted.gif

*edit* Daryl, I have told her she can depend upon you to be a pallbearer as I know you will want to be sure that they actually do drop me in the hole and cover it up with dirt.

[w3bny]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Nov. 16 2006,06:50)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 15 2006,03:42)]Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 14 2006,22:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
The advanced is a dead license class. #Expecting the FCC to cater to them is naive.
Please keep an eye on this thread, my XYL will be making my funeral arrangements today and making an announcement here for those who wish to attend my service. Some of you guys have such flattering little comments to try to squeeze in , don't you? http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/icon_twisted.gif

*edit* Daryl, I have told her she can depend upon you to be a pallbearer as I know you will want to be sure that they actually do drop me in the hole and cover it up with dirt.
Oy.. Badger-Badger... Can I be the bartender at your going away par-tey. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (KB3LIX @ Nov. 16 2006,05:54)]..this could be a back-door squeeze play by the commission to get existing advanced licensees to upgrade to Amateur Extra.

That would eliminate the need to track, renew and deal with one less class of amateur licensing.
That may translate into significant savings for the commission staff in manpower, computer disk space and other resources.

Just a thought.
I think that is exactly correct.

Most folks who have been maintaining an Advanced license have been doing so out of hubris, just to avoid being labelled "Extra Lites." That is their right of course, but it does not meet the FCC's mandate to move to the three-class structure in a timely manner.

I think the Commission is accelerating the "schedule" intentionally, which is a smart thing to do from their viewpoint. The actuarial statistics have not been fast enough.

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (w3bny @ Nov. 15 2006,07:57)]Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Nov. 16 2006,06:50)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 15 2006,03:42)]Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 14 2006,22:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
The advanced is a dead license class. Expecting the FCC to cater to them is naive.
Please keep an eye on this thread, my XYL will be making my funeral arrangements today and making an announcement here for those who wish to attend my service. Some of you guys have such flattering little comments to try to squeeze in , don't you? http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/icon_twisted.gif

*edit* Daryl, I have told her she can depend upon you to be a pallbearer as I know you will want to be sure that they actually do drop me in the hole and cover it up with dirt.
Oy.. Badger-Badger... Can I be the bartender at your going away par-tey. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Awwwww, of course you can Ren..... I know you have waited for this for quite some time, mate! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/smileybaby.gif

[w3bny]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Nov. 16 2006,07:11)]Quote[/b] (w3bny @ Nov. 15 2006,07:57)]Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Nov. 16 2006,06:50)]Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Nov. 15 2006,03:42)]Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 14 2006,22:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
The advanced is a dead license class. #Expecting the FCC to cater to them is naive.
Please keep an eye on this thread, my XYL will be making my funeral arrangements today and making an announcement here for those who wish to attend my service. Some of you guys have such flattering little comments to try to squeeze in , don't you? http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/icon_twisted.gif

*edit* Daryl, I have told her she can depend upon you to be a pallbearer as I know you will want to be sure that they actually do drop me in the hole and cover it up with dirt.
Oy.. Badger-Badger... #Can I be the bartender at your going away par-tey. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Awwwww, of course you can Ren..... I know you have waited for this for quite some time, mate! http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/smileybaby.gif
Naah.. its all in sport and the spirit of brotherhood.. and distilled spirits...ofcousre http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w8cbc]

Quote[/b] (WA3KYY @ Nov. 16 2006,13:22)]Quote[/b] (w8cbc @ Nov. 15 2006,23:13)]So Advanced only have 0.375 kHz total now?

That's enough for maybe three CW signals.

Ouch.

They got screwed all right.
You are off by a factor of 1000. Advanced have 75Khz in the CW/data/rtty segment (3.525-3.600MHz) and 300KHz phone space (3.7-4.0MHz) for a total of 375KHz on 80/75M.
Well, somebody half got it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I was referring to the message immediately above mine wherein somebody got his ks and Ms mixed up.

[W3MIV]

On its website today, I note that the League is considering the submission of a new petition challenging the prohibition of PacTOR III in the new R&O.

I immediately sent an email to the bandwidth@arrl.org address opposing any such petition. I recommend all other League members doing the same.

PacTOR II should be sufficient for any and all uses on HF, and the removal of authorization for PacTOR III is a good one, and hopefully the US prohibition will lead to a reduction in use of PIII in other regions and jurisdictions.

[KC9ECI]

I'd like to show my support too Tom, and you know my objections to the consumption of alcohol, so I'll take care of comforting the widow.

[KC9ECI]

giggity

[k0cmh]

Here is my OPINION on some of it.

I always felt that if a Tech passed the 5 wpm CW test, why limit them to such thin slices of the band. So I like them opening up the CW portions to the techs-with-element-1.

I don't appreciate them taking 25 KHz away from me ( a General).

Even though I enjoy the benefits of the General license, and did not have to work real hard to get it, I would agree if this is a step by the FCC to make licensing require more technica knowledge. I think there are a whole bunch of license holders that simply memorized the questions and did not actually know what many of the answers meant. I had a fair amount of electronics and RF knowledge before the test, so I just had to memorize a few of the procedural questions (frequency priviliges, etc.).

I always planned to upgrade to Extra, and now this will motivate me to do so faster. I was going to put it off for a year or two (but we know how that goes).

I think that there will be a lot of unwritten "gentlemen's agreements" about where some modes and operating segments will move to. I would suspect that the old "novice" CW spots will remain about the same, because of old habits and those that do not want to run amuck of the faster ops (some slow zones for newer CW ops).

I disagreed with the vast expansion of the phone bands. I have found that the phone bands only get very tied up during contesting, and if that is the case, then 20 meters really needed it the most.

I still believe the FCC should require specific proficiency tests in mode operation. A "license" would be issued after passing a test that demonstrated general technical knowledge and things like frequency priviliges, etc. But then if someone wants to operate digital or such, they take a test to demonstrate that they can actually hook up and run the equipment and follow good amateur practices. This would result in "an endorsement" being added to their license.

Oh well, this is just an OPINION, and I am not king, so this and 25 cents still doesn't get me a cup of coffee downtown.

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (k0cmh @ Nov. 16 2006,12:50)]I would suspect that the old "novice" CW spots will remain about the same, because of old habits and those that do not want to run amuck of the faster ops (some slow zones for newer CW ops).
The old Novice bands will be no more as of 15 Dec, so no, they won't remain about the same. The 80m Novice band will be in the Extra phone band as will half the old 40m Novice band. The SKCC frequency of 7120 remains safe however.

On 10 and 15 the Novice/Tech Plus folks can remain where they've been if they so choose.

No more Winlink? I bet Sailmail will be happy and so will I. Send those filthy rich yachters to where they're supposed to be: on a commercial service!

[n5rfx]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 14 2006,10:21)]Do they think the 500 Hz. limit for digital sigs on HF won't be official if they refuse to admit that it's there? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
It will be interesting to see what the response to this is from the ARRL and others. I am glad to see it, but am a bit surprsized by the J2D gift. I did not see it comming, but I think that the comments by the ARRL (see section III) (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516213520) and W5SMM (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516088425) may have helped stimulate the idea. This is an early Chrismtmas gift to Amateur Radio, I hope the grinch doesn't try to steal it.

73,

Mark N5RFX

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (n5rfx @ Nov. 16 2006,14:11)]...I hope the grinch doesn't try to steal it.
I'll bet you Waterman & Co will try.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (KB3LIX @ Nov. 16 2006,04:54)]That may translate into significant savings for the commission staff in manpower, computer disk space and other resources.
I don't think it will.

The same disk space will be required for an "N", "T", "G", "A" or "E" license.

The only thing different that will be required is remembering the frequency assignments and callsign allowances for each class, but that is miniscule compared to the entire licensing system.

[wb9iiv]

Take a look here


http://www.arrl.org/announce/regulatory/wt04-140/Hambands3_color.pdf

[AE6IP]

the FCC said they were delaying that other NPRM's R&O until the bandwidth thing was done. It's done.

Anyone care to guestimate when the R&O on element 1 is going to come out?

Irony would have it released on the 15th of december, the date that this R&O goes into effect.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (k0ews @ Nov. 15 2006,15:03)]Well, it looks like the band plan changes are now in the Federal Register, so the new plans go into effect on December 15.

LINK (http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2006/11/15/100/?nc=1)
They couldn't have made the font size any smaller, could they. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (AE6IP @ Nov. 16 2006,14:46)]the FCC said they were delaying that other NPRM's R&O until the bandwidth thing was done. #It's done.
Where did you see an NPRM&O on bandwidth?

[KB3LIX]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ Nov. 16 2006,13:33)]Quote[/b] (KB3LIX @ Nov. 16 2006,04:54)]That may translate into significant savings for the commission staff in manpower, computer disk space and other resources.
I don't think it will.

The same disk space will be required for an "N", "T", "G", "A" or "E" license.

The only thing different that will be required is remembering the frequency assignments and callsign allowances for each class, but that is miniscule compared to the entire licensing system.
Ryan,
You are probably correct that the savings would be miniscule, but you are not thinking like a BUREAUCRAT.

Follow along with me for a few minutes:

You are the Federal Communications Commission.

You are charged with the licensing and regulation of a plethora of different radio, television, landline & wireless services in the USA.

You have a limited budget, limited by congress.

You make a significant amount of money for the US Treasury, from the filing & licensing fees you collect, and from fines you issue for failure to follow the regulations you enforce.

But you have this 'pesky' little radio service that you also have to administer. It's called the Amateur Radio service. You do not collect any licensing or processing fees for routine actions. You do collect a few $$ from people that want special callsigns (the Vanity program) and you do get to collect a few more $$ when fines are issued and the violator actually pays the fines. Rare, but not unheard of. But for the most part they are an expense not a revenue generator.
And remember, the USA is a REVENUE DRIVEN SOCIETY !

And they are not going away. The worst part is, there are new people joining the ranks everyday.

So, you, Mr FCC, are spending all this time and effort
regulating an entity that generates you no revenue, and you have to devote manpower, computer time, postage, and God knows what else from your limited budget to support said service.

Now thinking like a bureaucrat or BEANCOUNTER,
the licensees are classified into 5 categories or collums on a spreadsheet. They are Novice, Technician, General, Advanced, and Amateur Extra. You no longer issue new Novice or Advanced licenses, but you still have to track and account for and service these classes of licensees.
Again as a BEAN-COUNTER, the elimination of just one collum or class reduces manpower that must be utilized. Eliminating both Novice & Advanced would be a better solution, but you have to start somewhere.

So we reduce the available bandwidth for these folks to operate within, maybe they will either give up or upgrade to Amateur Extra. If they give up, they will not renew their licenses and that will be fewer licensees to track and account for, and if they upgrade to Amateur Extra, it still moves them out of one collum and eventually, the Advanced collum will go away.

Whether the savings is an ACTUAL savings or a PERCEIVED savings, to a bureaucrat, it's all the same.

Welcome to MY spin zone.

[KB3LIX]

WARNING......WARNING......WARNING

The flames are about to start,

My reasoning above is also consistant with my theory that the commission will eliminate morse code testing requirements at some point in the future.

International treaties no longer require morse testing, so the commission will not require anything more than the minimum required by international agreement.

Sorry, I didn't intend to turn this into a code-no code thread, but unfortunatly everything in this country is ruled by the bottom line.
If it isn't profitable, it isn't worth doing.

I do not agree with the test elimination, but feel it is about ready to peek it's ugly head from around the corner.

It's just economics.

OK, start throwing the Napalm.

[K9STH]

For those who presently hold General Class or Advanced Class licenses:

Frankly, the written examination for the Extra Class is MUCH easier than either the present Technician Class or General Class licenses and is MUCH MUCH easier than either the General Class or Advanced Class examinations that I took in 1959 and 1969 respectifully. Although I think that using the ARRL's Extra Class License Manual does make it slightly easier to learn the material (but at well over $20 price tag a "bit" steep for some), you can definitely learn enough to pass just by taking the practice examinations here on QRZ.com.

Glen, K9STH

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 16 2006,17:49)]...at well over $20 price tag a "bit" steep for some...
If anyone balks at a $20 investment to upgrade, that person is in the wrong hobby.

[wd0ct]

I asked Dr. Phil and he said only aliens want to upgrade.

[N5PVL]

K9STH says:
Quote[/b] ]
Although I think that using the ARRL's Extra Class License Manual does make it slightly easier to learn the material (but at well over $20 price tag a "bit" steep for some), you can definitely learn enough to pass just by taking the practice examinations here on QRZ.com.

I have worked with the practice exams for a while but appear to have reached a plateu where I can go no further without ( gulp! ) having to learn something. The twenty bucks for a study guide is beginning to sound quite reasonable to me, on account of that.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Nov. 16 2006,17:52)]K9STH says:
Quote[/b] ]
Although I think that using the ARRL's Extra Class License Manual does make it slightly easier to learn the material (but at well over $20 price tag a "bit" steep for some), you can definitely learn enough to pass just by taking the practice examinations here on QRZ.com.

I have worked with the practice exams for a while but appear to have reached a plateu where I can go no further without ( gulp! ) having to learn something. The twenty bucks for a study guide is beginning to sound quite reasonable to me, on account of that.
It's very reasonable and well worth the investment.

If a guy like me can pass the Extra, ANYONE one can pass it.

The QRZ practice exams help, but they only go so far. Believe me, I have taken lots of those exams, not only here, but on eham as well. The only thing I wasn't getting was the Smith Charts. The book explained a lot of that material.

Good luck on passing Extra. If you use all of the resources availible at QRZ, eham, the Extra Study Guide, you should pass, no problemo.

[w3bny]

Quote[/b] (ab0wr @ Nov. 15 2006,22:22)]I don't see any mention of the discontinuance of wideband data below 30Mhz on either the Winlink site or the HF-ALE site.

Because of the length of time it has been since the R&O was published by the FCC I figured these sites would be changed and ready to go by now.

God knows it will take every bit of the 30 days to get all amateurs notified of the changes the R&O is going to impose!

I wonder how many Olivia and mt63 users will get caught using 1000hz modes before the word gets around to stop?

tim ab0wr
Thats right.... I thought something sounded wierd here. MT63 becomes verboten on the 15th as well. Wow.. wonder what other digital/SC modes we just lost. hmm.

[PE1RDW]

Quote[/b] (w3bny @ Nov. 17 2006,15:41)]Quote[/b] (ab0wr @ Nov. 15 2006,22:22)]I don't see any mention of the discontinuance of wideband data below 30Mhz on either the Winlink site or the HF-ALE site.

Because of the length of time it has been since the R&O was published by the FCC I figured these sites would be changed and ready to go by now.

God knows it will take every bit of the 30 days to get all amateurs notified of the changes the R&O is going to impose!

I wonder how many Olivia and mt63 users will get caught using 1000hz modes before the word gets around to stop?

tim ab0wr
Thats right.... #I thought something sounded wierd here. #MT63 becomes verboten on the 15th as well. #Wow.. wonder what other digital/SC modes we just lost. #hmm.
F1B and J2B are not limited to 500 hz however because they are not datamodes but rather automatic recieving teletype modes (also known as keyboarding).
So as long as you are in a keyboard qso you can still use it, macro's and brag files are a bit of gray area.
Pactor FEC keyboarding qso's can also be seen as J2B but I don't think pactorIII suports FEC mode, afterall connections are done in pactor I

[WA3KYY]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 16 2006,16:49)]For those who presently hold General Class or Advanced Class licenses:

Frankly, the written examination for the Extra Class is MUCH easier than either the present Technician Class or General Class licenses and is MUCH MUCH easier than either the General Class or Advanced Class examinations that I took in 1959 and 1969 respectifully. #Although I think that using the ARRL's Extra Class License Manual does make it slightly easier to learn the material (but at well over $20 price tag a "bit" steep for some), you can definitely learn enough to pass just by taking the practice examinations here on QRZ.com.

Glen, K9STH
I don't know about the current Extra being easier than either the old General/Tech written test. I think I did far less studying for it back in 1967 than I did for Extra which I took in 2002. There are numerous technical questions on the Extra for topics that did not even exist in 1967. I am now using my Extra Study Guide as a introductory reference on advanced topics that I want to learn more about. Well worth the investment IMO.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[K9STH]

The present Extra Class examination can be passed without having to do any calculations since only 3 or 4 questions out of 50 require any calculations. The Smith Chart only has 1 or 2 questions and those answers can be memorized in a minute, or two. Even if you miss all of the questions that require calculations you are still going to have a 92 percent to 94 percent score and that still gives you a very large margin of other questions to miss and still pass.

Supposedly the present test is "harder" than it was a few years ago because the Advanced Class test was added. However, if so, then the Advanced Class test that was being used was considerably easier than that which was given when the Advanced Class was first being issued (prior to 1969 - from 1951 until 1969 - the Advanced Class was a "grandfathered" class issued to those who had held the old Class "A" amateur radio operator's licenses).

Glen, K9STH

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (wb6bnq @ Nov. 16 2006,03:11)]Mike,

You need to read a little closer.

The 80/75 meter <span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>ADVANCE</span></span> portions are from <span style='color:red'>3.525</span> to <span style='color:red'>3.600</span> KHz and from <span style='color:red'>3.700</span> to <span style='color:red'>4.000</span> KHz.

So the portion to <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>stay out of</span></span> if you are an Advance class is from <span style='color:blue'>3.500</span> to <span style='color:blue'>3.525</span> KHz and additionally from <span style='color:blue'>3.600</span> to <span style='color:blue'>3.700</span> KHz.

Bill....WB6BNQ
At those frequencies, do you have room to string up an efficient antenna? At at to-day's ripoff price of copper...

[WA7KKP]

Some comments:

Where are the DX stations going to "hide" from the US DX hounds on 80/75 meters? Guess they'll have to go somewhere else. We need more room for the monotonous round-tables and do-nothing "traffic nets" on here.

I'm glad there's a bit more room on 40 -- hard to compete against the broadcasters on the high end of the band with a 100w SSB signal.

And it looks like the Tech Plus becomes the new "Novice" ticket for those who really want to get on HF with minimum effort.

One last question: When will we ever get back the bottom 2 MHz of the 220 (aka 222 MHz) band?

ARRL, can you hear me?

Gary WA7KKP

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Nov. 17 2006,16:16)]Supposedly the present test is "harder" than it was a few years ago because the Advanced Class test was added. However, if so, then the Advanced Class test that was being used was considerably easier than that which was given when the Advanced Class was first being issued (prior to 1969 - from 1951 until 1969 - the Advanced Class was a "grandfathered" class issued to those who had held the old Class "A" amateur radio operator's licenses).
Actually, when they reintroduced the Advanced Class with the advent of Incentive Licensing, they picked 50 questions from the old Extra Class test and let that be the new Advanced test. The Extra Class test became the remaining 50 questions plus 20 wpm code.

So, theoretically, even though the Extra Class written exam was reduced from 100 questions to 50, going from General to Extra stayed exactly the same, with the same 100 questions. Advanced was simply a new step halfway to Extra, with the written-only test.

But all the tests across the board have become much easier since 1969.

[N5PVL]

December 15th is coming right up. Is everybody ready?

[NN4RH]

Quote[/b] (N5PVL @ Dec. 04 2006,07:13)]December 15th is coming right up. Is everybody ready?
Some are. There are at least a few of the RTTY nets have moved down around 3580-3590 region recently.

A few nights ago I watched one RTTY net control station broadcast a net-intro spiel for about an hour prior to the start of the net. I don't know if they normally did that at their old frequency, but obviously the guy was staking out and "holding" the frequency.

Also saw a CW signal come on top of him for awhile sending "QRL QRL" but without signing, but unless it happened before I tuned in, there was not an ongoing CW QSO there that the RTTY was interfering with. So I don't know what that was about but from where I was sitting it looked like attempted deliberate QRM by the CW station against the RTTY station.

I earnestly hope that the below 3600 frequency range doesn't turn into a war zone as all those CW and RTTY nets start staking out turf down there. Looking at the ARRL Net Directory, it looks like there may be as many as 100 nets currently above 3600 that are going to be looking for new frequencies below 3600 in the next week or so.

There is room enough for everyone (unless everyone starts broadcasting for hours in order to "hold" frequencies), but I am afraid could be anarchy unless the ARRL comes out with a revised band-plan for 80 meters pretty soon.

[ab0wr]

Once again, the ARRL seems to be rather ineffective in coordinating anything. Here it is, 10 days from when the new rules take effect, and the ARRL hasn't yet issued a new NTS CW net directory, let alone one for all independent CW nets.

They should have issued the NTS CW net directory at least two weeks ago (more like a month ago) to give all the independent nets an idea of where the NTS nets were going in order to facilitate coordination.

Instead, chaos reigns.

tim ab0wr

[N5LRZ]

In re to the above post concerning CW Nets....

If the poster will reference the ARRL web page concerning the frequency reallocations he will see that the Test Question Pool has been changed and the ARRL will reflect these changes via stickers that are to be stuck on the question page.

New questions will not be reissued.

Why would the poster thing that the ARRL is going to reprint an entire book for a few frequency changes.

And I say that I cannot blame the ARRL for not doing so. That would be a very bad decision from a financial point of view. Did the Call Book people completely reprint their call book every week? The ARRL is using stickers. I, myself, if I were in charge, would use a simple letter size page listing the new questions. Something that can be easily Emailed. But stickers are OK.

Net Managers be reminded to resubmit corrected net times and locations for the NEXT directory publication printing.

[WA3KYY]

80M is not that only place the turf wars will begin come Dec 15th. I have heard of several groups who plan to claim a spot on 40M between 7.175 - 7.200. I suspect also that a portion or all of that segment will be declared the "DX Window". It could be an interesting few months as the new order shakes out. Then once everyone has figured out who is operating where, the ARRL will release their bandplan totally screwing up what was just worked out.

As Tim said, a new plan should have been put out for comments the same day as the R&O was released. Only 75/80M was so different from the NPRM that prior planing was impossible.

I can certainly support a Petition for Reconsideration to move the bottom of 75M up to 3.650 or even 3.700 to reduce the wars in the 3.525-3.600 region that are sure to ensue.

73,
Mike WA3KYY

[ve2nsm]

I guess all this means us poor old canucks are gonna loose the only part of the band we could go without being QRMed by our southern neighbours... that is between 3700 and 3750 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Any phone net above 3750 was bound to failure since many years, and now...

Oh well... go with the flow as they say.

[WA3KYY]

You probably will not see that much activity move down. The biggest gain on 75 phone is for Extras and most of their current exclusive segment is lightly occupied now. Move below 3700 and you will probably not have a problem holding a net. Even with advanced getting 3.700-3.750 I would bet there will be plenty of space to operate and so you may not have to move your nets. Most activity on 75 phone in the US is from 3.850-4.000 now. That will expand down to 3.800 but I suspect the remainder of 75M phone will be about as open or more so than the current 3.750-3.800 segment.

73,
Mike