Sensitivity Training?

[w3sy]

At a group meeting at work, we saw a presentation from a member of our group who had gone to some kinda Sensitivity Training. He showed a slide that spoke of some scenarios where someone had been "dissed."

For example, an American dined out with a "Moslem." (By the way, are we supposed to call them "Moslems??") The American was left handed and (can you believe it?) ate with his left hand. The Moslem shunned this guy from that point forward.

Why?

Apparently, in "Moslem" culture, the left hand is considered "unclean" and is used for "personal hygiene."

Um, I don't wanna know.....

Lesson: That insensitive American should have KNOWN, or at least found out, that you don't eat with your left hand around "Moslems."

Oh, camel cookies! How about cutting the lefty American a little slack? He didn't KNOWINGLY offend the Moslem. There was no INTENT to honk anyone off. See, this world is too full of people TRYING to get your goat to worry about people who don't know they are offending you, and don't intend to. If anything, perhaps the Moslem needs to be more sensitive to the "differently handed." Why are WE the bad guys here? Couldn't Akhmuud have politely asked his American friend to use his opposite hand (even at the risk of the American getting stuff all over himself due to awkwardness)? Instead, the Moslem throws a hissie fit -- and that's somehow "okay."

But the "correct" answer for discussion was that the American was vile and obscene for using the "wrong" hand.

Dumb...

[w5mlr]

Welcome to the brave new politically correct world of the 21st century, where anyone can be offended by anything.

As for me, I'll keep wiping my hiney with my right and eating with either of my two paws. #Maybe the next time I have one o' dem Mozlems over at my pad, I'll fire up the grill and barbecue some pork spareribs, crack open a Corona, an' slap in a DVD o' some haf' nekkid chix dancing around on the beach at spring break. #And I'll bring over a PETA member and a feminist as well. #We'll have a nice little politically incorrect party right there.

[KI4PEQ]

PETA
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

[KA9VQF]

You may not know it but in many Arabic countries it is customary to use your hands to eat stuff with.

The rich use knives, forks, and sometimes spoons.

From what I’ve read if you are eating with one of these people and are indeed using knives and forks if when you are done with whatever you are eating and you put your utensils on the empty plate, fork on the bottom knife on top in a sort of an X configuration, if you turn the dull side of your knife toward them it is an offence to them because it is saying that you do not fear them as an adversary.

This is for any kind of knife, steak knife, butter knife, table knife, any knife even if it is made of plastic.

[NA4BH]

Quote[/b] (KG6PSK @ Aug. 05 2006,18:26)]Welcome to the brave new politically correct world of the 21st century, where anyone can be offended by anything.

As for me, I'll keep wiping my hiney with my right and eating with either of my two paws. #Maybe the next time I have one o' dem Mozlems over at my pad, I'll fire up the grill and barbecue some pork spareribs, crack open a Corona, an' slap in a DVD o' some haf' nekkid chix dancing around on the beach at spring break. #And I'll bring over a PETA member and a feminist as well. #We'll have a nice little politically incorrect party right there.
DITTO

I'LL BUY THE BEER, OH WHAT THE HECK, I'LL BRING THE PIG FOR ROASTING TOO.

Just remember,

YOU BE IN MY HOOD AHMED!!!!!!!

[AE6IP]

too little info for an informed opinion, but if there isn't more to the dining-out story, your group member had gotten suckered into some bad sensitivity training.

any i've ever been aware of has made a point of discussing the legal concept of 'reasonable man', and how it applies to situations like this.

[KW4MW]

IMHO political correctness is the only way for stupid people to feel superior. #

For instance before any of the ships I was stationed aboard entered a foreign port we had a port brief educating us with the local customs and yes we were indoctrinated with the left hand rule for Moslem countries. #

It turns out that the educated Moslems were well aware that we were ambidextrous (so to speak) and thought little of it - after all we were hardly the first non Moslems to enter their country with different customs. #It was just Joe S Theragman, ignorant and living in the boonies that had the taboo with lefties. #

Turning the coin over - it is not uncommon to see two Asian men walking and holding hands, it is a sign of friendship between them, nothing more. #Yet I heard time and again from some of the good ol boys "hey lookee at them kweers over there". #

Tolerance toward other customs is the peaceful way to go, demanding political correctness reduces any opportunity for gaining mutual respect.

Please note my signature.

[kd5rpo]

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Aug. 05 2006,19:00)]At a group meeting at work, we saw a presentation from a member of our group who had gone to some kinda Sensitivity Training. He showed a slide that spoke of some scenarios where someone had been "dissed."

For example, an American dined out with a "Moslem." (By the way, are we supposed to call them "Moslems??") The American was left handed and (can you believe it?) ate with his left hand. The Moslem shunned this guy from that point forward.

Why?

Apparently, in "Moslem" culture, the left hand is considered "unclean" and is used for "personal hygiene."

Um, I don't wanna know.....

Lesson: That insensitive American should have KNOWN, or at least found out, that you don't eat with your left hand around "Moslems."

Oh, camel cookies! How about cutting the lefty American a little slack? He didn't KNOWINGLY offend the Moslem. There was no INTENT to honk anyone off. See, this world is too full of people TRYING to get your goat to worry about people who don't know they are offending you, and don't intend to. If anything, perhaps the Moslem needs to be more sensitive to the "differently handed." Why are WE the bad guys here? Couldn't Akhmuud have politely asked his American friend to use his opposite hand (even at the risk of the American getting stuff all over himself due to awkwardness)? Instead, the Moslem throws a hissie fit -- and that's somehow "okay."

But the "correct" answer for discussion was that the American was vile and obscene for using the "wrong" hand.

Dumb...
This scenario could have a point in the case of you being a salesman and this Saudi Arabian had a 250 million dollar contract on the line with your company.

You get a $30,000 bonus if the deal goes. What would you do?

Now give an honest answer.

[NA4BH]

I would eat with my foot, if that is what it takes to land a deal like that. But the (here is a new word for you) MUZ-LIBS would want you to throw away YOUR CUSTOMS for someone elses. GET OVER IT. If you are in The United States, do as they do.

[ka5s]

Two thirds of diversity is a thick skin.

So-called sensitivity training is not a bad idea if it's meant to educate us to what pushes other peoples' hot buttons. It turns into political correctness when it ignores the above.


Cortland
KA5S

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ Aug. 05 2006,19:51)]This scenario could have a point in the case of you being a salesman and this Saudi Arabian had a 250 million dollar contract on the line with your company. #

You get a $30,000 bonus if the deal goes. # What would you do? #

Now give an honest answer.
It depends on where the deal was to be made. If it was to be made in their country, I would definitely be learning how to sign my name right handed.

If was the deal was to made here at home at corporate headquarters, they would just have to live with the fact that I was left handed. And don't think for one moment that some of those rich Arabs don't know about our culture. They know that left handed people are fairly common here in the US. You can bet that some (if not most) of the upper class of Arabs including the Saudi Royal family went to college here in the US. They are probably more accepting of "south paws" than most people think.

It comes down to one expression: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." If you're in their country, you are a guest so act like one and be respectful. The same rule should apply to them when they visit here. They are our guests and should act appropriately no matter what hand someone uses to eat with.

I'm a proud "south paw" and this is my country. If someone from another land doesn't like what hand I use to eat with they can KMA.

[KG6YTZ]

Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Aug. 05 2006,18:00)]Apparently, in "Moslem" culture, the left hand is considered "unclean" and is used for "personal hygiene."
In this culture, we have a thing called soap. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KI4ITV]

Quote[/b] (KA9VQF @ Aug. 05 2006,14:07)]<snip>
From what I’ve read if you are eating with one of these people and are indeed using knives and forks if when you are done with whatever you are eating and you put your utensils on the empty plate, fork on the bottom knife on top in a sort of an X configuration, if you turn the dull side of your knife toward them it is an offence to them because it is saying that you do not fear them as an adversary.

This says volumes about what we are up against while dealing with this culture.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

And when walking hand in hand to show freindship, are there rules to follow regarding who gets the unclean hand??
I can't eat with my left hand, but here, hold this. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KF0RT]

Just don't send me to another "Sexual Harassment" class. Can't normal people figure this stuff out without being told?

73, Rob

[w3sy]

Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ Aug. 04 2006,21:51)]Quote[/b] (w3sy @ Aug. 05 2006,19:00)]At a group meeting at work, we saw a presentation from a member of our group who had gone to some kinda Sensitivity Training. He showed a slide that spoke of some scenarios where someone had been "dissed."

For example, an American dined out with a "Moslem." (By the way, are we supposed to call them "Moslems??") The American was left handed and (can you believe it?) ate with his left hand. The Moslem shunned this guy from that point forward.

Why?

Apparently, in "Moslem" culture, the left hand is considered "unclean" and is used for "personal hygiene."

Um, I don't wanna know.....

Lesson: That insensitive American should have KNOWN, or at least found out, that you don't eat with your left hand around "Moslems."

Oh, camel cookies! How about cutting the lefty American a little slack? He didn't KNOWINGLY offend the Moslem. There was no INTENT to honk anyone off. See, this world is too full of people TRYING to get your goat to worry about people who don't know they are offending you, and don't intend to. If anything, perhaps the Moslem needs to be more sensitive to the "differently handed." #Why are WE the bad guys here? Couldn't Akhmuud have politely asked his American friend to use his opposite hand (even at the risk of the American getting stuff all over himself due to awkwardness)? Instead, the Moslem throws a hissie fit -- and that's somehow "okay."

But the "correct" answer for discussion was that the American was vile and obscene for using the "wrong" hand.

Dumb...
This scenario could have a point in the case of you being a salesman and this Saudi Arabian had a 250 million dollar contract on the line with your company. #

You get a $30,000 bonus if the deal goes. # What would you do? #

Now give an honest answer.
Oh, that's easy. In sales, excessive arse-kissing and self-degradation is required and expected. Many sales folk (guys) would put on a tutu, cover themselves with butter, stand on their head, and spit nickles (if that were the local custom) to make a sale.

The above scenario was described as a social situation. It's assumed the participants were either friends or acquaintances. Point is that the "Moslem" was a jerk to be intolerant of the "regular" guy for hating on him without even a word of explanation.

For Marty, #there were other examples. A regular American invited a Filipino to lunch. The Filipino refused. The American thought it was personal and didn't ask again. Then the Filipino was REALLY honked.

Lesson: #Filipinos require to be asked THREE times before accepting an invitation. #Um, ok.

So I guess in this case, you'd have to tell the guy, "Kiss my butt. Kiss my butt. Kiss my butt." #Haw...

[W4HAY]

The engineering firm I worked for often subbed us out to large internation corporations. Learning foreign customs made sense -- after all, they are the customer! Trying not to burst out laughing at some (actually, many) of the customs was the hard part!

Keep in mind that many cultures are highly regimented, where the freedom of individual thought is not only discouraged, but severely punished. Kinda like the lib'ruls, ya know! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif As Joe Lieberman's quickly finding out! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KW4MW]

When I was young and single I met a pretty young British girl in a nightclub and although we got along quite well she was with her girl friends and wanted to stay and party with them that evening.

However she did suggest that I "knock her up sometime", had I known what she meant I would have asked for her telephone number instead of standing there with my mouth open and drooling.

[w0aew]

Sensitivity training offends me.

[w5klb]

Back "many moons ago", I was acquainted with a Navy Wave... er... WIN (that's another story http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif) that worked in my office space at NAS New Orleans. She got offended because someone used the term "straight laced" that was used describe her. In most places, the term "straight laced" is a good thing. It means something similar to "straight arrow”: honest, hard working, and professional. She thought it meant that someone misinterpreted her sexual orientation and that she was gay. This goes to show that, across our country, different terms and expressions can have different meanings and can unknowingly offend someone.

The old expression is true: "Hell hath no fury than a scorn of a woman." Wow!

[K7KBN]

Women have furry scorns? Who knew? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[w8cbc]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Aug. 06 2006,05:13)]Just don't send me to another "Sexual Harassment" class. Can't normal people figure this stuff out without being told?

73, Rob
Thank you.

Clear Channel have these sessions every year or two.

Most of us already "get it" on our own. Those who don't aren't going to change their behaviour on account of these things.

I can see the point about hot buttons and foreign cultures (ka5s and others). None of what I've had to sit through has addressed anything of that sort though. It's all been corporate CYA.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (k7kbn @ Aug. 06 2006,08:33)]Women have furry scorns? #Who knew? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Corrected. Thanks for pointing out that overlooked typo, Sir. <Hand salute>

[w4rot]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Aug. 06 2006,08:13)]Just don't send me to another "Sexual Harassment" class. #Can't normal people figure this stuff out without being told?

73, Rob
We have alot of Zenger Miller..."How to get along" classes. I refused to go last year...it was about the 10th one and and I told my boss..."You know if I have not figured it out by now why don't you just get rid of me."
The company that does this make butt loads on these classes. You watch a video..do the role playing (Which I absolutely abhor!!!) and basically play never never land.
At the end of the day...nothing gained for anybody.
Most of this stuff should have been learned in elementary school, but I guess not.
I got a pass on this one and in the future, my boss doesn't hassle me to much. I do my job he does his.
If I turn into a moron, then kick me out the door.
It's a good company, but in 5 more years I'm outta there!!!
I have been a team player even before it was popular HR concept.
NoZM for me,
rot

[KW4MW]

The Joys of Politically Incorrect Living (http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/chapin/chapin9.html) #by Bernard Chapin. #

Worth reading!

for instance Quote[/b] ]There is only one thing for certain about the politically correct individual, and that is they will be constantly and endlessly offended for the rest of their lives. #It will never end. #Under the draconian pressures of how they think the world should be, real life will disappoint them again and again. #That’s why they hide out in universities so often, because it guarantees that they will never have to mix with the general population under any circumstances. #The best tactic to take with them is to have a little fun at their expense. #They usually don’t know too many people who will put as much work into offending them as I will, so it’s quite enjoyable to set them up and watch them blow. #There’s never any reason to feel bad about it though, because these martinets are the ones trying to rewire your brain.

[ne6ao]

I have 2 stories that are extremely politically incorrect but are rumors and 1 was on a letter I have since missedplaced but In my opinion would really piss off the muslim community but NO DISRESPECT IS IN TENDED TO THE NORMAL MUSLIM MODERATES but I vetted 1 of these stories from a good friend who worked for "the company" it may be true that is only a rumor,but really would scare the heck out of any terriost so how many hands want to hear, everybody who wants to hear raise your hands:0 :rock:

[KC2PBJ]

I am increasingly insensitive to "sensitivity training" as well as intolerant of "tolerance" efforts that do not place equal demands on all parties. We're bending over backwards so much that all we are getting is a sore back that just gets worse as time goes on. Reciprocity and equality of sensitivity and tolerance is an inherent requirement for social success and it ain't happening in American culture. So long as these programs emphasize the divisions that exist, rather than mutual growth and understanding, our nation will never achieve our social goals and we'll just continue the downward spiral. Other threads here have stressed the American Flag issue, illegal immigrant rights without obligations, and other American current concerns. Choose your own issue and look for equal sensitivity and equality. Guess what, you'll see very few.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (w4rot @ Aug. 06 2006,10:30)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Aug. 06 2006,08:13)]Just don't send me to another "Sexual Harassment" class. Can't normal people figure this stuff out without being told?

73, Rob
We have alot of Zenger Miller..."How to get along" classes. I refused to go last year...it was about the 10th one and and I told my boss..."You know if I have not figured it out by now why don't you just get rid of me."
The company that does this make butt loads on these classes. You watch a video..do the role playing (Which I absolutely abhor!!!) and basically play never never land.
At the end of the day...nothing gained for anybody.
Most of this stuff should have been learned in elementary school, but I guess not.
I got a pass on this one and in the future, my boss doesn't hassle me to much. I do my job he does his.
If I turn into a moron, then kick me out the door.
It's a good company, but in 5 more years I'm outta there!!!
I have been a team player even before it was popular HR concept.
NoZM for me,
rot
Ooooooh. You must have a budget for such things.

We don't -- these sessions are "facilitated" by our "HR" department. BTW, anyone remember when that was called the "employment office?" Someday, I'm going to call in sick and tell them that I "don't feel like being a Human Resource today."

Anyway, our sexual harassment class involved a film, a short lecture and some role-playing (thank GOD, the role-playing wasn't of the audience participation kind). Anyway, the film was right out of the 70's. Clothes, haircuts, the whole thing -- 70's. With just a tad more work, it would have been a great comedy.

The role-playing consisted of the "facilitator" (a middle-age overweight woman with tattoos) making a pass at another woman (in her 60's). Overheard in the hall afterwards: "I'm gonna have to watch someone slaughter a pig to get that image outta my head." It wasn't pretty, and some nights I still wake up screaming.

I know we've had problems with this sort of thing before, but why not just be open and up-front about it? Fire the bastage and send out a memo: "We had to let Billy Bob go today because he wouldn't leave Mary Lou alone." Seems to me, that would be just as effective and it wouldn't leave the emotional scars of childish role playing.

Speaking of which... You know all those workplace shootings? Just the result of role-playing at dumb seminars, I'm convinced. Twenty years ago... no role-playing, no shootings. I think there's a connection.

73, Rob

[KC2PBJ]

Facilitators and role playing is another way of saying that HR hired an outside consultant. Its the same old BS, just at premium rates.

[N0KLT]

A number of years ago, I got in big time trouble at work by telling my boss that I didn't need the Sexual Harassement class or seminar or whatever it was called because I already knew how to do that, I needed no lessons. Guess the boss had less of a sense of humor then I thought. Oh well, it only cost me a raise at the next review. The bad part was I still had to take the stupid class.

[K1OU]

Please come to my office... (http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/episodes/101_1.shtml#main)

[K3XR]

All part of the sick social engineering taking place in our culture. #It starts in our schools, which have been taken over by the Libs, and now it is carried into the work place and, of course, fostered by the lib media. ##

In the schools it takes the form of little Johnny learning that it is more important to know all about Lesbians, and Billy has two moms, than it is to be able to read and write . #Where it's more important to learn Spanish than it is to know the President's of United States. #It's diversity run amuck.

[K1OU]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ Aug. 06 2006,15:45)]All part of the sick social engineering taking place in our culture. #It starts in our schools, which have been taken over by the Libs, and now it is carried into the work place and, of course, fostered by the lib media. ##

In the schools it takes the form of little Johnny learning that it is more important to know all about Lesbians, and Billy has two moms, than it is to be able to read and write . #Where it's more important to learn Spanish than it is to know the President's of United States. #It's diversity run amuck.
"Social engineering is the practice of obtaining confidential information by manipulation of legitimate users. A social engineer will commonly use the telephone or Internet to trick people into revealing sensitive information or getting them to do something that is against typical policies. By this method, social engineers exploit the natural tendency of a person to trust his or her word, rather than exploiting computer security holes. It is generally agreed upon that “users are the weak link” in security and this principle is what makes social engineering possible."

'XR,

The next time you want to try to sound smart, please consult Wikipedia.

[al2i]

I gave my best classroom lecture to a "sensitivity trainer" when she started with a "Dumb Blonde" joke at one of our workplace group sessions. Watching her squirm was the pathetic highlight of my day. I gave it to her with immense, slowly-unfolding cruelty, and watching her have to "take it" as long as I delivered was reminiscent of the stories about Chinese water torture. She was in psychological agony.

I think she was near fainting or throwing up, but had no counter to my righteous indignation. I am sure she abandoned any future use of blonde jokes.

[al2i]

social engineering
n.

The practical application of sociological principles to particular social problems.

[w8cbc]

I see it as a corporate CYA exercise.

They can claim they've "told everyone not to do that" when somebody sues.

The problem as I see it is this litigation-obsessed society we have here. The amount of waste and annoyance resulting from it is incredible. Look around you; consider all the nonsense we have to endure because somebody might sue somebody because of a lack of personal responsibility on the part of those bringing the lawsuit - so personal discretion is thereby removed.

The solution to this would be to outlaw frivolous lawsuits.

We'd have to change who makes the laws of course. So it won't happen.

[kd5rpo]

BSR has the situation pegged. It is all about reducing the financial responsibility of the company in the event of legal actions.

Most companies also issue employee handbooks these days as well.