Green Green, It's Green They Say..

[ac3p]

Even if you aren't a ham operator wanting to put up an antenna, HOA's can give you a world of trouble.

Link (http://www.nbc5i.com/money/9621763/detail.html)

[K0RGR]

Next, the HOA will order her to exercise each blade of grass with a pair of tweezers.

Someday, I am afraid I'm going to have to choose between the XYL and living in some HOA-controlled hellhole. I will really miss the lady, too. She actually wants a condo, and I have agreed to that as long as I can have a separate antenna farm someplace out of town. And, I get my antenna farm first. Hopefully, I will be able to remote control the whole thing.

I'll let you know when I sign an agreement that says I will pay a fine if my grass dies. I'm sure that was disguised someplace in the fine print. I am not happy about having to shovel the sidewalk within 24 hours of a snowstorm, but I can at least see the common good in that.

[WB2WIK]

CC&Rs are senseless and should be boycotted by simply not buying any properties having them.

However, regarding keeping the grass green: Where I live (L.A.), I don't have any covenants or HOA, but this is a law. You must keep your grass green and cut to a maximum height of four inches at all times. It last rained here on March 26th. Rain and keeping grass green are mutually exclusive.

I see the sensibility in the law, as a fire abatement policy. Brown or dead grass burns and allows fires to spread very quickly, green grass resists burning and such rapid spread. And we have a fire problem around here -- a natural one, that's been occurring since long before "man" lived here. Man's made it worse by adding matches, lighters, cigarettes and other stuff -- but the fires were here thousands of years ago.

I can abide by sensible laws.

But HOA by-laws and restrictive covenants? Never.

[K9STH]

Don't know about Denton, but most of the cities in north-central Texas are restricting outside use of water. Here in Richardson we can water 2 times a week on the days that our trash is picked up. Can water from midnight until 9:00 AM and then from 6:00 PM until midnight. Suggested, but not enforced at this time, is no more than 30 minutes per section.

In Plano (next suburb north) they are restricted to watering once a week and the time frame is similar to Richardson. Lawns are in bad enough shape in Richardson and are terrible in Plano.

Glen, K9STH

[ad5qb]

We go through this every year in San Antonio. We are now under "Stage I" water restrictions which allows landscape watering one day a week depending on the last digit of your street address, and only during very inconvenient hours. SAWS (San Antonio Water System) insists that once a week watering is enough to keep a lawn, but I beg to differ. I comply with the restrictions, but my yard is really drying out. I've cut down on the amount of lawn I've got, but need to do some more xeriscaping. Getting to be too much trouble to keep a yard here.

Neighborhood I used to live in had a HOA that started citing folks whose lawns were dying out in the summer during our annual water restrictions. Just like this lady's case, it made the news and they backed down. It really is getting ridiculous, and I can say that 'cause I still live in a HOA neighborhood. Haven't had any problems with them myself yet, but have heard stories.

[w8cbc]

I honestly don't get it.

How to these associations get the power to fine?

I would think that if you refuse to sign their papers, they've no rights of coercion over you.

[K9STH]

BSR:

The HOA is usually specified as part of the deed restrictions when you purchase the property. When you sign to buy you also sign the papers for the HOA.

Now where I live there is a voluntary HOA that costs $10 per year per residence. For that you get a directory of everyone in the neighborhood (over 1000 families) and they paint the house number on the curb every year (to help meet the city's requirements of number posting on the residences). They do hold some social things like a 4th of July parade and picnic. Also sell flower plants in the spring, take care of the neighborhood watch, etc.

Now there are people in the HOA that would just love to be able to tell everyone else what to do. But, with the exception of a 2-block development there were no CC&Rs in the area. There is a "gated" community that is being built where a small strip shopping center was located and they have some "real" CC&Rs. The area is so small that there is going to be well under 50 homes and the prices start at like $750,000 (high for this area of the country, low for California).

Glen, K9STH

[k4kyv]

Ridiculous. Grass won't die if it turns brown in dry weather. It just naturally goes dormant, as one of nature's protection mechanisms. Our grass has always greened right back up once it starts raining. We have never watered the lawn. Waste of water, waste of time and waste of money.

However, grass fire has always been a concern. Once it starts, it's almost impossible to extinguish. You beat it out, but as soon as you let up to catch your breath, it flashes right back up again. But I wouldn't be concered about "brown spots." And if the grass is kept mowed, it becomes less likely to become a fire hazard.

Several years ago I was burning brush on a calm day, when an unexpected breeze started up, blowing the flames right into a maple tree I had been pampering. By the next day, the leaves started turning, just like in autumn. Within a few days, all the leaves on the tree had turned brown. I was sure I had killed the tree, and even considered taking the chainsaw and cutting it down, but I decided to wait until cooler weather to do that. To my surprise, after 2-3 weeks, the leaves started to green up again, and before the end of summer, that tree was alive and looking perfectly healthy, except for a few ends of branches that got singed and didn't come back to life. The tree has remained healthy to this day. From my experience, grass does exactly the same thing when it is "burnt" from severely dry weather.

I would urge someone to sneak by after midnight and irrigate the HOA nazis' lawns with a little dose of Roundup.

[w8cbc]

Glen - in that case, if I ever go looking buy a house, any mention of a HOA in the deed will immediately kill the sale.

'kyv - nice idea. I wouldn't, only because I don't believe in being destructive. Securely affixing a large sign stating "Self-Appointed Property Cop Here" with a large bright arrow pointing in the relevant direction on the nearest telephone pole to the self-appointed property cop's house would be more my style.

[K9STH]

BSR:

Actually, you have to be VERY careful and look at EVERY restriction that is in the deed. Those are where the HOAs get their real authority.

Glen, K9STH

[w8cbc]

So what gives these characters their "authority"?

I would refuse to recognise anyone not representing a legally elected government.

[N4AUD]

These things will persist as long as people continue to sign them. If home buyers would start telling real estate agents that they weren't interested in homes with restrictive covenants, these things would go away. Supply and demand, and if the demand went away and they didn't sell, the HOA's would go away also.
But apparently a lot of people want them or they wouldn't be so common.

[W7WV]

Well if they march past my no trespassing sign I will arrange for them to see the inside of a jail when I turn them over to the county law.

[KW4MW]

My neighborhood has Covenants and Restrictions but no legally acting HOA. #The developer neglected to establish an HOA until over 90% of the homes were sold. #We overwhelmingly voted NOT to have an HOA. #

There are a few stalwart souls that are convinced that we do have an HOA - but they are a straw organization - nothing has been ratified. #They try to collect $20 a year per household to keep the entrance lights on and for the upkeep of the grass and shrubbery around the entrance. #I doubt if half of the neighborhood contributes. #I do contribute yearly just to keep the entrance lights burning - my wife often comes home after dark and it is hard to see the entrance otherwise. #The sad part of this is that what is referred to as the entrance to our neighborhood is actually on private property zoned to business. #

We mostly conform to the spirit of the C&R, for instance boats and RV's must be kept in the backyard but nobody gets pissed if a boat is left in the driveway for a couple of days - particulary the weekend. #Quite frankly I'd rather put up with a little inconvenience and the occasional eyesore instead of having some Nosy Parker old Biddy calling the HOA everytime some little restriction is bent or broken. #

We visited a retirement community with the idea of moving there someday. #No thanks. #Everybody had the exact same mailbox attached to the cutesy lampost placed at exactly the same spot (4 feet right of the driveway), cars must be parked in the garage, no sheds allowed, NO ANTENNAs, flower beds were allowed but only so big, two trees from the approved list were mandated to be planted at specific spots, etc. #

The residents there seemed to be happy even though all of their activities were planned for them. #

Busy, busy, busy. Their Simon Says Lifestyle is #not my lifestyle.

My criteria for living in an area is this. #I will live there as long as i can go outside in my backyard and pee anywhere I want to without anybody saying anything about it. #(wife excepted). # When the day comes that i can't pee on the day lilies - that's the day I'm moving.

[WA2ZDY]

I live in a restricted area because this is where I want my family and EVERYTHING in this county, with few individual houses scattered around as exceptions, is restricted.

I knew this coming in and when it comes to the overall good of my family vs ham antennas, I can find a way to get on the air, my family's comfort comes first. And sadly, restrictions and all, this home fits our bill right now.

BSR - the HOAs get their power through civil law. You sign the contract to buy, you're bound by the contract. EVERY possibility is written into those deeds, so if you don't read it, you're on your own.

In the last place we lived, they even had it written into the rules that if you violate the local restrictions, they can seize your home. Legal? Yep, the owners all signed it. (I was renting.)

[KF0RT]

I think Colorado now has a law that every new community development MUST have a HOA. I'll have to check that again, but I'm pretty sure.

Where I live, there are covenants that restrict just about everything. My favorite: If you put a light at the end of your driveway, it has to run on gas.

This community is about 32 years old and we've lived in it for 21 years. As far as I know, none of the covenants have ever been enforced. There used to be a ham with a tower a few blocks away, but the tower has been down for some years now. People routinely park in front of their homes because they use their garages as storage (against the covenants). A guy a couple houses down from me does RV repair out of his house and has a pretty good business going in the summer from the looks of it -- always one or two RV's parked there. I've had antennas up almost the whole time, but never considered the desire to get back on HF when we bought the place.

According to the "rules," the covenants automatically renew every 25 years unless there's a 2/3rds vote to repeal them. As long as we've lived here, we've never received so much as a note in the door from any committee, and some of the houses on the market are now being listed as "no restrictions."

I think this spring, it may be time for a roof tower. The neighborhood "busybody" lived across the street from us and moved out about 3 months ago. We just found out last month that the place will be a rental. Puuuuurfect. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob

[KA9VQF]

Where I live there is no home owners association, covenants or other restrictions built into the deed of my home.

There are however city ordinances that appear suddenly and sometimes change at strange times. Enforcement seems to be on a one particular person scheme. Not the entire town nor everyone in town are covered the same way.

I have been ticketed for having a non operational vehicle in my yard that did not move for more than two weeks.

I was given a copy of the ordinance to read at my leisure. It described my car as an abandoned vehicle. It made no difference in the world that the car was off the city street, on private property, had license and insurance on it at the time as it had indeed set for more than two weeks without being moved.

It’s a ‘92 Pontiac Grand Am, never wrecked, just a bit tired.

I have since bought a battery for it and do move it by turning it around end for end every two weeks. I have also let the license and insurance expire. The ordinance does not specify that it has to even be road worthy just that it can’t sit in one place for more than 14 days.

One fine day I will probably find another 3.3L engine and put it in it then put the car back on the road.

Now just down the block is a rusted hulk of a ‘40 something Chevy pickup. It has no windows nor tires. It sits on blocks that are sunk into the ground so much that the bare wheels are now touching the dirt.

I don’t know why the owner has never been cited for this ‘abandoned’ vehicle but he assures me that no one has ever said a thing about it. He also said it hasn’t moved since 1963 when he towed it home and put it there.

He tells me that one fine day he will put and engine, transmission, interior, headlights, tail lights, brakes lights, brakes, tires, windows, electrical wiring, mirrors, a bed in the box, and a few other odds and ends like maybe some paint on it and put back on the road too.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n0jaa]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ Aug. 04 2006,20:04)]So what gives these characters their "authority"?

I would refuse to recognise anyone not representing a legally elected government.
Who? The people who move into these neighborhoods, of course! When they sign the HOA agreement, they agree to uphold the bylaws and hold the HOA blameless against violations.

That's where they get their authority.

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Aug. 04 2006,16:21)]Ridiculous. Grass won't die if it turns brown in dry weather. It just naturally goes dormant, as one of nature's protection mechanisms. Our grass has always greened right back up once it starts raining. We have never watered the lawn. Waste of water, waste of time and waste of money.

However, grass fire has always been a concern. Once it starts, it's almost impossible to extinguish. You beat it out, but as soon as you let up to catch your breath, it flashes right back up again. But I wouldn't be concered about "brown spots." And if the grass is kept mowed, it becomes less likely to become a fire hazard.

Several years ago I was burning brush on a calm day, when an unexpected breeze started up, blowing the flames right into a maple tree I had been pampering. By the next day, the leaves started turning, just like in autumn. Within a few days, all the leaves on the tree had turned brown. I was sure I had killed the tree, and even considered taking the chainsaw and cutting it down, but I decided to wait until cooler weather to do that. To my surprise, after 2-3 weeks, the leaves started to green up again, and before the end of summer, that tree was alive and looking perfectly healthy, except for a few ends of branches that got singed and didn't come back to life. The tree has remained healthy to this day. From my experience, grass does exactly the same thing when it is "burnt" from severely dry weather.

I would urge someone to sneak by after midnight and irrigate the HOA nazis' lawns with a little dose of Roundup.
My dormant grass will be fine with the next rain. I gave up on watering it years ago. Mowing short is a good way to stress some grass.

I like the roundup idea!

[WB2WIK]

Here in L.A., like a lot of California, it's a law (municipal code) that your grass must be kept cut, and must be kept green. Despite the fact that we get absolutely zero rain for about nine months out of the year (like all summer long, for example), there are no watering restrictions and everyone is expected to keep a "greenbelt" area around their homes, for fire abatement.

I water every other day, or 3-4 times a week, for 3 hours at a time and that just about keeps the grass happy. My water bill is about equal to what some people I know have for mortgage payments in other places.

But it's literally against the law to let the grass die. No CC&Rs, no HOA, just city ordinance. We knew that coming in, so it was not a surprise.

At least we don't have to shovel snow.

WB2WIK/6

[N2RJ]

I actually prefer city ordinances to HOAs. At least with them, you're dealing with the Government not the property value police.

[KG6YTZ]

link (http://www.kevinandkell.com/2006/kk0806.html) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KF0RT]

No regs on keeping the grass green here, but you can be cited for letting it grow too long (weeds, too). I guess the rule is: if you're going to water it, you must cut it, too. Seems fair enough to me.

We've got a couple of neighbors now who have xeriscaped their yards -- no grass anywhere, but they sure put a lot of time / effort / money into it.

This year, I've replaced a retaining wall in my back yard. The ongoing work has restricted lawnmower access, so I haven't watered or mowed all year. At the present rate, I figure I'll have that job completed sometime around 2009.

73, Rob
Holding the property values down since 1986 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KW4MW]

9VQFQuote[/b] ]Now just down the block is a rusted hulk of a ‘40 something Chevy pickup. It has no windows nor tires. It sits on blocks that are sunk into the ground so much that the bare wheels are now touching the dirt.

I don’t know why the owner has never been cited for this ‘abandoned’ vehicle but he assures me that no one has ever said a thing about it. He also said it hasn’t moved since 1963 when he towed it home and put it there.

I have neighbors nearby that let their property go for years - siding unpainted and peeling, shingle tabs missing, some grass growing among the weeds, various fixer upper vehicles in the driveway oozing oil and rust and by their proximity driving down everyone elses property values. #I have had to look at that eyesore daily for years.

They are finally fixing up the place with the intention of selling it.

Would your neighbor consider renting me that Chevey hulk for a few weeks to use as a lawn ornament?

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Now where I live there is a voluntary HOA that costs $10 per year per residence. For that you get a directory of everyone in the neighborhood (over 1000 families) and they paint the house number on the curb every year (to help meet the city's requirements of number posting on the residences). They do hold some social things like a 4th of July parade and picnic. Also sell flower plants in the spring, take care of the neighborhood watch, etc.
We've got the same thing here with the "Meredith Neighborhood Association". We get their newsletter every quarter. I watch them with a jaundiced eye. We'll see what gets mentioned in the newsletter when my 70' freestanding tower goes up. We don't have CC&R's on this property. The house was built in 1972 and I told the wife and realtor that if I even smelled a hint of a restictive CC&R or HOA that the deal was off.

Just like RGR's wife mine likes the idea of retiring to a condo, which is diametrically opposed to my idea of retiring on 40 acres of wide open farm land and becoming a gentleman antenna farmer. I will not live in a condo. I like mowing my own grass and blowing my own snow.

[KA9VQF]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ Aug. 06 2006,07:10)]9VQFQuote[/b] ]Now just down the block is a rusted hulk of a ‘40 something Chevy pickup. It has no windows nor tires. It sits on blocks that are sunk into the ground so much that the bare wheels are now touching the dirt.

I don’t know why the owner has never been cited for this ‘abandoned’ vehicle but he assures me that no one has ever said a thing about it. He also said it hasn’t moved since 1963 when he towed it home and put it there.

I have neighbors nearby that let their property go for years - siding unpainted and peeling, shingle tabs missing, some grass growing among the weeds, various fixer upper vehicles in the driveway oozing oil and rust and by their proximity driving down everyone elses property values. #I have had to look at that eyesore daily for years.

They are finally fixing up the place with the intention of selling it.

Would your neighbor consider renting me that Chevey hulk for a few weeks to use as a lawn ornament?
That’s the thing. It’s not like I’m running a junk yard here. I keep my place pretty well cleaned up. True I haven’t painted the outside much, just the window frames because the steel siding is still in good shape.

I keep the grass cut as well as the weather will permit. When it rains I don’t mow until the grass is dried enough, if it is to hot, I tend put it off a while till it is cooler sometimes but generally do it even if its really hot out.

Right down town is a business that sells beer and liquor. Behind this place are several old vehicles and parts of vehicles. Since the owner of this business also owns several other buildings and businesses in town he is sacrosanct.

Perhaps if I should win the lottery I could put all the junk cars I want in my yard.

As far as renting the hulk down the block, I don’t know if it would survive the trip. I think you would only end up with a much smaller heap of rust in your yard.

There are better way to increase the iron content of your soil.